OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

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GoBuckeyes

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If CSR was killed first is it possible they took and used GR to get by dogs or gain access to others. Just a theory. Trying to figure out the gun being pressed to his head that left a mark. Then brought him back to CSR’S trailer?

I think he would have yelled and signaled to the other would-be victims, even if it meant his own death. After all, would he really believe that they'd let him go in the end? Jmoo
 

Wegoego

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Same here. I may not be hearing it correctly...

I don’t mean to interrupt, but I started thinking about FW getting a hearing exam. What would happen if she claimed she couldn’t hear the sounds.

My daughter is a speech pathologist and I asked her if a hearing test was performed on someone and they tried to fake it...would the audiologists know that? Here is her reply.

Yes. I think it’s called melingering or something like that. If the audiologist suspects it, they have techniques to get around that. Also, it wouldn’t make sense if audiogram shows terrible hearing, but the person can hear in conversation
 

Sleuthinsleuther

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Been meaning to ask this question for a while but didn't wanna bring it up until someone had mentioned it. I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion is on the phone call, specifically the ending where bjm can clearly be heard saying "Oh god please don't hurt me" thoughts??
She clearly said that huh?
 

Gypsy771

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I believe JW knew K was not his. Claiming she might be made it look like he and HR were on good terms and therefore he would not do this. Had she turned out to be his it would have been "icing on the cake" for their endeavors.
i also agree hr made it clear all over social media that cg was the father and was a loser and never went to any appointments just another way to make it look like hr and the wagners where like family still .
 

Cool Cats

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Been meaning to ask this question for a while but didn't wanna bring it up until someone had mentioned it. I'm curious to know what everyone's opinion is on the phone call, specifically the ending where bjm can clearly be heard saying "Oh god please don't hurt me"
thoughts??

Can't tell for sure, but she could be saying that. IF that's what she's saying then I would simply take it at face value that she's in a panic and scared and doesn't want the killers coming back to kill her.

She's obviously in a state of shock and has no idea what's going on and doesn't know if someone is running around with a weapon ready to strike again. The killer could be watching from the woods for all she knows.

I do not believe---at the end of the 911 call--- she saw an armed person right in front of her who she thought might try to kill her and her friends. According to reports, a couple who were her friends, were there with her that morning..........
..........A blessing she wasn't there all alone!
 
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Loomis124

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I remember watching FW during either the arraignment or pretrial. AC said that her two charges were from lying to the grand jury about the vests and also going against GJ orders to not discuss the testimony with anyone. She may have been telling the others about the questions the GJ had concerning the vests, but it's still two separate independent charges. She lied, which is perjury, and she talked about her GJ testimony against orders which is obstruction. IMO, it's not likely she can claim she was there for hours and heard nothing. She's not new to dealing with the courts. She lied, and she talked.

Rhoden family massacre: Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge

Excellent, sound analysis. Clearly two separate charges, as stated on her indictment.
 

Cool Cats

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Excellent, sound analysis. Clearly two separate charges, as stated on her indictment.

FW wasn't charged for discussing her GJ testimony. Besides, that type of charge comes under a Gag Order and would be considered Contempt of Court, not Obstructing Justice.
........2 different things........
 

Puzzles8

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If CSR was killed first is it possible they took and used GR to get by dogs or gain access to others. Just a theory. Trying to figure out the gun being pressed to his head that left a mark. Then brought him back to CSR’S trailer?
I can't remember the exact discussion, but there was a blue car towed from KR's trailer's site. Some thought it might have been GR's car.
Would fit into your scenario.
If that was the case though, I would think there would be kidnapping charges.
 
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Puzzles8

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Coloradans28

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Ok Yes
You bring up an interesting point that Raisin had raised earlier.
I can't remember the exact discussion, but there was a blue car towed from KR's trailer's site. Some thought it might have been GR's car.
Would fit into your scenario.
If that was the case though, I would think there would be kidnapping charges.
t
 

Coloradans28

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Thanks for the responses all. I was just trying to figure out the mark on GR. Was a gun being held to him to give instructions or gain information? I’m no expert but would think gun would be pressed their for some time to make a mark. JMO
 

Loomis124

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The way they are mentioned sounds like the BV's were likely found together in GW3's bedroom in Fred's house, May 2017. I thought her farm was raided only once, not counting the records taken of her business purchases/expenses.

Yes the Prosecution said in court that Fred's only lies under oath were about the bullet proof vests.

So they took lying about the vests and made it into 2 charges, perjury and obstruction. She allegedly lied about the vests which then
hinders the investigation, making it obstruction.

If the only evidence they have to present at trial is just her GJ testimony, then I think she has a good chance of beating the charges.

Her attorney already showed his hand, that she is "hard of hearing" and "didn't understand the questions." If she can prove at trial that she actually is hard of hearing that could potentially hold sway with the jury making them feel she's not guilty beyond that reasonable doubt threshold.

Cool Cats,

This was posted on WS recently and showed it was from FW's case:

Frederica Carol Wagner

IDENTIFICATION OF DISCOVERY PROVIDED

Pursuant to Criminal Rule 16(B), discovery includes:

One (1) CD containing the following:

Inventory for Search Warrant of the Flying W 5/13/17 (7 pp)

Photographs of two tactical/bullet proof vests recovered from Search Warrant of the Flying W 5/13/2017 (items 27 and 28) (3 photos)

Amazon Records for Fredericka Wagner/Flying W 1/1/14 through 5/1/16 (352 entries)

Amazon Records for Fredericka Wagner/Flying W 5/1/16 through 10/31/18 (856 entries)

TOTAL: One (1) CD
--------------------------------------------------------
VIP word: "includes"
 

JustaboyFromMS

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I’m no expert but would think gun would be pressed their for some time to make a mark. JMO
I believe it would be from the reside left behind. The closer the gun is being fired from the more residual reside. Doesnt necessarily mean the barrel was placed there for a prolonged time. They could have caught him sleeping on the couch, placed the gun directly on his temple and pulled the trigger instantly. JMO
 

Puzzles8

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Cool Cats,

This was posted on WS recently and showed it was from FW's case:

Frederica Carol Wagner

IDENTIFICATION OF DISCOVERY PROVIDED

Pursuant to Criminal Rule 16(B), discovery includes:

One (1) CD containing the following:

Inventory for Search Warrant of the Flying W 5/13/17 (7 pp)

Photographs of two tactical/bullet proof vests recovered from Search Warrant of the Flying W 5/13/2017 (items 27 and 28) (3 photos)

Amazon Records for Fredericka Wagner/Flying W 1/1/14 through 5/1/16 (352 entries)

Amazon Records for Fredericka Wagner/Flying W 5/1/16 through 10/31/18 (856 entries)

TOTAL: One (1) CD
--------------------------------------------------------
VIP word: "includes"
I'm not sure I've seen this specific discovery from FW's case. Can you please post link?
TIA
 

Loomis124

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KentuckyMama, I agree with you. She lied to the GJ about the vests (Perjury) and then went and discussed her GJ session with her family/co-defendants (Obstruction of Justice). And these have both been discussed in open court.
 

Loomis124

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I'm not sure I've seen discovery from FW's case. Can you please post link?
TIA

As I said, I don't have a link. It was posted on here, by Dudley or Myland, I believe. Betty P. may have marked it because she asked about it.
 

JustaboyFromMS

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If the only evidence they have to present at trial is just her GJ testimony, then I think she has a good chance of beating the charges.

That's what she is charged w/. If they have evidence that she intentionally misled investigators she will be convicted. Innocent until proven guilty & all that good stuff, but I highly doubt the state would have brought charges at this point unless their case was airtight. JMO
 
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