OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#43

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Loomis124 said:
The only difference I see in drinking alcohol and weed is that many people only socially drink which weed seems to weird you out to the point that you lose your zest for life because you enjoy the stoned state of mind. That's JMO from witnessing friends over the years. They try to get disability so they don't have to work and can draw a check and sit around stoned all day.
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Does anybody know why GW3 was on social security?
 
Puzzles8 said:
Ahhhhh...this is getting a little creepy, and extremely hard to follow family trees. :confused::eek:
Getting to sound a bit like a country song!:D;)
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At some point in time, that land that the church is on, may have belonged to the Nutter/Shaver/ or Cyrus family(ies). It may be deeper than what I'm thinking, but there's so many of these little churches, that have had members, or church starters, in rural communities, to donate land, or money, to start a church. Idk if they still do or not but they'd have special offerings set aside just for church building. It used to not be uncommon at all. AW may have attended the church and met G3 there, when they were children. The name change for RJN is odd, but it could be for a variety of reasons. She may have been adopted.
 
Betty P said:
What a disgusting man. He raped a girl under the age of 13, assuming she was one of the kids attending FW's church.


JMO, LE were just going after the wrong people (the Manleys) for the first year. Something happened when they arrested JM or around that time that made them finally accept it was the Wagners who did it. I have a feeling we'll eventually learn what made the investigation finally turn in the right direction. Maybe it was something they discovered that they weren't expecting. Maybe it was something JM told them.
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I respectfully disagree. IMO, LE knew fairly early on (within 6 months) who did it.

They gave the Wags confidence, and the Wags started slowly getting rid of evidence (selling truck in oct2016) or not getting rid of the evidence at all.

There was some type of evidence back on October 1, 2016 when DeWine said they had enough evidence to prosecute then if they wanted to. IMO they waited until they had evidence on all 4
 
I'mNosyRosy said:
Still to this day I cannot wrap my head around what the Wagners did. I just can't fathom thinking "i have a problem, oh, I know just the solution I'll kill someone, that'll solve my problem." Then, they did not stop with one person or one location but killed 8 people in 4 locations !

Further, I find it hard to believe this was their first time doing something like that.

I lost my paper with the next hearing dates. Does someone have it handy and if so can you please post the next hearing dates?
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Angela....Pre-Trial...3-20...1:30pm
GW4.......Pre-Trial...3-22...1:30pm
GW3.......Pre-Trial...3-29...1:30pm
Jake........Pre-Trial...4-4.....1:30pm
March 28: RN 10am
March 28: FW 1:30pm
 
Sleuthinsleuther said:
I respectfully disagree. IMO, LE knew fairly early on (within 6 months) who did it.

They gave the Wags confidence, and the Wags started slowly getting rid of evidence (selling truck in oct2016) or not getting rid of the evidence at all.

There was some type of evidence back on October 1, 2016 when DeWine said they had enough evidence to prosecute then if they wanted to. IMO they waited until they had evidence on all 4
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I'll go back and listen to that again. I assume that was in his PC after the arrests?

If they had enough evidence for arrests, they should have gone forward with that, JMO. They wouldn't have kept trying to publicly pin it on both JM and his sister BJM.

If they had enough evidence for arrests, they would have searched the W properties and found more evidence before the W's had a chance to destroy or hide it. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they did find the evidence. I just don't see any justification for allowing the case drag on for nearly 3 years if they had enough evidence in the first 6 months to arrest.
 
Sleuthinsleuther said:
I respectfully disagree. IMO, LE knew fairly early on (within 6 months) who did it.

They gave the Wags confidence, and the Wags started slowly getting rid of evidence (selling truck in oct2016) or not getting rid of the evidence at all.

There was some type of evidence back on October 1, 2016 when DeWine said they had enough evidence to prosecute then if they wanted to. IMO they waited until they had evidence on all 4
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I agree with most of your comment. I was looking for something in print to support *allegations* LE was actually around Flying W VERY EARLY on. The quote below is the best I could find.

"Two who did declined to give their names but said they first noticed law enforcement checking out the farm just a few months after the murders. "

Custody dispute played role in killing of Rhoden family, officials say

Related to the church- I noticed in 2005 FW also opened Wagner Lucasville Mission as an LLC. She appears to have given the authority as herself from the Cyr*s LMission to use the same name and dropped the Wagner off the beginning. So it appears since 2005 her Lucasville Mission has been operating in both capacities: as a 501(c)3 and as an LLC (for profit).

Some of this (her many business ventures) could be why the Department of Taxation became involved in the case.

Link to entities involved in investigation:
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...er-2018/Pike-County-Homicides-Family-Arrested
 
Puzzles8 said:
The story of Alydar is heartbreaking. But sadly happens with expensive horses that are past their prime. An acquaintance of mine was in vet school to become an equine vet. One summer she interned with one of the top equine vets in the area. She saw first hand the underbelly of the horse world and equine vets, the stories were awful. It impacted her so much, when she went back to school that fall, she changed her major to small animals.
Barn fires are also used to get insurance money. FW had a terrible barn fire in 1986, I think about 30 horses were killed, including her top horse Boy Blue (along with all of her breeding records, how convenient.......).
Interesting that the R & R was Alydar's vet also.........
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Yep. Alot of coincidences...Alydar also died on a Nov 13. Arrests on Nov. 13. This gave me chills. Not likely connected. JMO
 
Tiff23fr said:
I agree with most of your comment. I was looking for something in print to support *allegations* LE was actually around Flying W VERY EARLY on. The quote below is the best I could find.

"Two who did declined to give their names but said they first noticed law enforcement checking out the farm just a few months after the murders. "

Custody dispute played role in killing of Rhoden family, officials say

Related to the church- I noticed in 2005 FW also opened Wagner Lucasville Mission as an LLC. She appears to have given the authority as herself from the Cyr*s LMission to use the same name and dropped the Wagner off the beginning. So it appears since 2005 her Lucasville Mission has been operating in both capacities: as a 501(c)3 and as an LLC (for profit).

Some of this (her many business ventures) could be why the Department of Taxation became involved in the case.

Link to entities involved in investigation:
https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...er-2018/Pike-County-Homicides-Family-Arrested
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I think there might be a legitimate purpose for the two types of incorporation.

Several years back, I was part of a charitable organization. I believe it was originally incorporated in the 50's or '60's as a non-profit charity. At some point either the state's AG office (or IRS) required us to separate into two organizations. I don't remember the year, but 2005 sounds close.

One was the 501(c)3, we called 'The Foundation". It was under strict rules governing fundraising and it's use. It was also issued a "tax exempt letter". We would use it's annual "profits" to underwrite our charitable causes.

The other organization was called "The Club". It supported the social/friendship events. We would try to charge members the same amount as the event cost so that that at the end of the year, income - expenses = 0 net income. If we accidentally ended up with a profit, we would donate the profit to The Foundation.
The Club was not allowed to use the tax exempt letter and not allowed to fund raise.

ETA - The Department of Taxation likely came into play in the 501(c)3 regarding fundraising rules. The laws are quite strict. Specifically the "number" of designated fundraisers. In our state you are allowed two designated fundraisers. Where it gets sticky is in the definition of fundraiser. If they deem you have had too many fundraisers, it's not pretty........ The state can then come in make your events taxable as well as require the Foundation to collect sales tax. The AG's office can also take your 501(c)3 designation away.


Raisin and IQ, please fact check me!
 
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Puzzles8 said:
I think there might be a legitimate purpose for the two types of incorporation.

Several years back, I was part of a charitable organization. I believe it was originally incorporated in the 50's or '60's as a non-profit charity. At some point either the state's AG office (or IRS) required us to separate into two organizations. I don't remember the year, but 2005 sounds close.

One was the 501(c)3, we called 'The Foundation". It was under strict rules governing fundraising and it's use. It was also issued a "tax exempt letter". We would use it's annual "profits" to underwrite our charitable causes.

The other organization was called "The Club". It supported the social/friendship events. We would try to charge members the same amount as the event cost so that that at the end of the year, income - expenses = 0 net income. If we accidentally ended up with a profit, we would donate the profit to The Foundation.
The Club was not allowed to use the tax exempt letter and not allowed to fund raise.

Raisin and IQ, please fact check me!
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There were some changes in the 501(c) rules around 2005 that changed the structure of some non profits.

Your facts some good to me.
 
Betty P said:
I'll go back and listen to that again. I assume that was in his PC after the arrests?

If they had enough evidence for arrests, they should have gone forward with that, JMO. They wouldn't have kept trying to publicly pin it on both JM and his sister BJM.

If they had enough evidence for arrests, they would have searched the W properties and found more evidence before the W's had a chance to destroy or hide it. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they did find the evidence. I just don't see any justification for allowing the case drag on for nearly 3 years if they had enough evidence in the first 6 months to arrest.
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I think they spent the first year chasing down many tips, almost 1,000. This took a lot of time and resources to go in many directions (and wild goose chases) until they hit a dead end and could take each tip off the table. I'm sure the W4 were one of the leads, but they had to rule out all others before they could "lazer focus" and devote all resources toward building a case against the W4. I think they did not arrest them sooner because they wanted an iron clad case. Also, I think the BCI investigation was uncovering many other crimes. They may not have felt the W4 were an immediate treat to the general public, maybe they were waiting for GWW4 and son to come back from AK, or maybe they didn't have quite enough evidence so they took their time.............until their hand was forced when the threats to LE and BCI were discovered.
Just a possible theory!
 
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Puzzles8 said:
I think they spent the first year chasing down many tips, almost 1,000. This took a lot of time and resources to go in many directions (and wild goose chases) until they hit a dead end and could take each tip off the table. I'm sure the W4 were one of the leads, but they had to rule out all others before they could "lazer focus" and devote all resources toward building a case against the W4. I think they did not arrest them sooner because they wanted an iron clad case. Also, I think the BCI investigation was uncovering many other crimes. They may not have felt the W4 were an immediate treat to the general public, maybe they were waiting for GWW4 and son to come back from AK, or maybe they didn't have quite enough evidence so they took their time, until their hand was forced when the threats to LE and BCI were discovered.
Just a possible theory!
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IMO they waited until they had enough evidence to indict all 4
 
almond said:
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience but I don't think that's the norm.... I sense another drug being involved, or something else. I have been smoking the stuff since 1980 and never went any harder. I don't get aggressive when I don't have it either. ;) It's now being prescribed for me by my physician for illness. Alcohol, which I refrain from, makes me aggressive.
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Could also be the result of someone with serious mental illness smoking MJ. People with schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, etc. can respond very differently if they smoke pot, even just a small amount. It can cause auditory and visual hallucinations, paranoia, mania, all kinds of bad things. I've seen it first hand and am sure most people in LE have seen it too. It can happen fairly quickly, too, within 10 or 15 minutes of smoking. The effects seem to last a very long time, even several hours or a day or more. I've only seen it happen twice, but it totally messes up some people's wiring.
 
Betty P said:
Could also be the result of someone with serious mental illness smoking MJ. People with schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, etc. can respond very differently if they smoke pot, even just a small amount. It can cause auditory and visual hallucinations, paranoia, mania, all kinds of bad things. I've seen it first hand and am sure most people in LE have seen it too. It can happen fairly quickly, too, within 10 or 15 minutes of smoking. The effects seem to last a very long time, even several hours or a day or more. I've only seen it happen twice, but it totally messes up some people's wiring.
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Some people are allergic to it too. I've a friend who is allergic, and Roger Daltrey is pretty open about his allergy to weed.
 
Puzzles8 said:
I think they spent the first year chasing down many tips, almost 1,000. This took a lot of time and resources to go in many directions (and wild goose chases) until they hit a dead end and could take each tip off the table. I'm sure the W4 were one of the leads, but they had to rule out all others before they could "lazer focus" and devote all resources toward building a case against the W4. I think they did not arrest them sooner because they wanted an iron clad case. Also, I think the BCI investigation was uncovering many other crimes. They may not have felt the W4 were an immediate treat to the general public, maybe they were waiting for GWW4 and son to come back from AK, or maybe they didn't have quite enough evidence so they took their time.............until their hand was forced when the threats to LE and BCI were discovered.
Just a possible theory!
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So the LE found the Bulletproof Vest after the Wagners came back from Alaska or before they left Ohio. Did the Wagners hide the vest for a few months? Does anyone know?
 
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