Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by tlcya, Jul 29, 2017.
She would have been in a forever home except for the forgery. It's devastating imo.
I hope that none of the Wagners ever see her again. Imagine how difficult it will be for her to process this horrible information - that her father's family murdered her mother, her grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc. Those are scars she will carry for the rest of her life.
No. I don't. I mention it because, it was the explanation provided for the picture.
Regardless of the event where it was taken, it does seem to date back a long time. Have a look at CRJr.
Familicide are often committed by family members. For this reason, I tend to believe AW when she says they were close, regardless of her choice of words.
If she had said: "JW and HMR dated each other, but we barely knew her parents" I would be much less inclined to believe in their guilt and in the case against them.
The fact the alledged killers went out of their way to kill KR tells me this love/hate story takes its origin one generation up from HMR & JW.
Anyway, there is no need for me to debate this point further. This question will be answered in court. I could be wrong on this, but I doubt it very much.
Very interesting post. Thankx. In a way it sorta sums this subject up.
BBL often comes into the discussion, but I never commented about it.
It employed R family members. It's also the place where JW and HMR alledgedly met according to OP.
I imagine it like other popular family resorts I know. Children discover the place with their parents. They get enough freedom on site to allow their parents to have a social life of their own.
Both JW and HMR did not end up there alone.
Like any other resorts, more than being a business, it's a social place where relationships are made, friendships are celebrated and potentially broken too.
Food for thoughts.
Who or what is OP? It's too early in the morning for me.
The accused sex offender should have been hanging out with people his own age if he met her there.
Pre-Trial hearing on Wednesday and hopefully we will learn more information.
In this case, I think it means "original poster" or the person who originally posted the comment about Big Bear Lake. I tend to agree. Jake Wagner should have been hanging out with girls his own age.
JMO, guys like Jake choose much younger women because they're easier to control and manipulate and because the guy is intimidated by women his own age.
I agree in principle with what you say about the predatory behaviour of men.
However, note that DR herself had children very young. She was 37, 4 times grand-mother already. Her husband was 3 years older too.
A sex crime is a sex crime. I do not intend to defend the undefendable.
Now, I don't know how HMR and her parents felt about it. I am not sure it wasn't consensual and that her parents considered JW like a criminal.
JW and HMR had unlawful sex, it does not mean the parents were at war over it. I think, it's a shortcut to make.
If HMR and her parents had considered the situation a crime, JW would have been charged much earlier. It is perhaps coming from a prosecution tactic or maybe a late development in their souring relationship. JMO
FW's attorney files motion to dismiss indictment on 3-15-2019
Pike county court has updated motion on Fredericka jmo
Jmo but I think the state is dragging their feet in all this to get some type of confession from one of the four. I believe that is one reason they went after fw. They appear to be needing to put as much pressure as possible for some reason. Is the state needing a confession to get the verdict for all four, I am not sure. Jmo
The Facts: EW(Jake) was 20 y/o when he had sexual contact with HR who was 15 y/o
Lawriter - ORC
2097.04 A : Unlawful Sexual Conduct With a Minor
No person who is 18 or older shall engage in sexual contact with another who is not the spouse of the offender, when the offender knows the other person is 13 or older but less than 16 years of age or the offender is reckless in that regard.
2097.04 B: Whoever violates this section is guilty of unlawful sexual contact with a minor
Statutory Rape and Age of consent: (googled and found)
Ohio Age of Consent & Statutory Rape Laws
This site includes an interactive map of continental U.S., Alaska, and Hawaii
Many states differ for the age of consent as the map shows.
We often hear the term of having sex with a minor as being “statutory rape” in the state of Ohio this is what the Prosecution is charging him with under the definition that is given: Unlawful Sexual Conduct With a Minor.
He is guilty of this.
Furthermore the charges must be brought up with in 20 years of the crime committed.
IMO: How many people know the exact laws in their state as to what the definition of the crime is. How many kids are taught this law or are encouraged to know it and understand it for themselves without having to hire a lawyer?
MOO not many families do this. How many people know that the age of consent from each state can vary from 16-18. Does this mean that a person who lives in a state where the age of consent is 16 crosses into a state where the age of consent is 18 and be charged with “statutory rape” by the parents who live in the other state because their child was under 18 at the time? This is a good question. It is only shown here to show many people probably do not take all the state laws into account or know them even when it concerns sexual maturity.
Moreover, even though our children maybe be taught in school about these things, and by their parents reality hits home: teens time and again break this law.
Who here was at the age of consent their first time? I really do not want to know. It's no one's business. Truth is truth. The age of consent encompasses male and female: not just females alone.
Keep in mind that even if the family’s were at a get together when the two kids met, (and at 20 in my book he’s a kid even though the system states he’s an adult)., and not hanging out with other kids or adults the two could have hooked up. Happens all the time.
Keep in mind, also, many variables come into place there such as the maturity level of the 20 year old. There are many 20 year old individuals NOT mature enough to handle the responsibility they are given with things. Sex is a major responsibility because of many factors. There is no getting around it. Many adults aren’t even equip to handle the responsibility of having sex.
The simple fact that he did what he did shows he was reckless with it. The problem is, is that he has gotten caught with more than just unlawful sexual contact with a minor.
It sounds like the W and the R were just trying to handle the situation within their own family dynamics. Nothing more nothing less and to read into it would be a great injustice without one of the parties being here to defend themselves.
Just like with any case of domestic violence, the state took over where they could charge JW with the charges in this case.
BY all means Reckless endangerment on at least 3 counts on children should have been included in these charges. So I do not know why they decided to include this count when there were three other direct victims in the home where the crimes actually occurred unless it's because the time lapsed to where they could viably charge these individuals with that crime.
There is no reason to bring in the predatory behavior of men with this which encompasses the whole of one gender in particular and not all men are predatory. I think it’s the fact that we all mistake the true age of maturity as opposed to the one that must be defined by the Governments Judicial System (for good reason).
MOO if someone can post a link that cites that JW was actually abusive to HR other than the disgusting crime committed against her that he is charged with (which for all intense purposes does fall under the guise of abuse) it would be greatly helpful. I'm not talking about gossip either. Prior to these murders and the planning thereof I would like to see concrete evidence to suggest that JW was abusing HR. Also, what would be helpful is the list of where JW had a pattern of having sex with underage girls. THAT would put him into a category of a predator. ONE time does not.
OBJECTIVELY looking that aspect, if you want to include it into this particular case, you indeed need to include the predatory behaviors of women as well because women can be sometimes even nastier than men can. That would create a great stir in this forum.
IN NO WAY DOES looking objectively at the factors in this case does it say there was a reason to do such crimes. The R and G did NOT deserve any of it.
This scares me... What if they found a flaw that can acquit her of the charges?
I agree. Thanks for the research. Do we know DR's and CRsr's age when they conceived FR? It's possible they fit the scenario of 18 and older with younger than 16. If not, they were very close.
I read you wrong there. You are probably right. But for the case...unless it's to compare only, it's not really relevant in the matter at hand.
We all can search our own conscience. One of my biggest problems with some of the conversations was the insinuation that JW was a sexual predator….
In layman's terms, from what I see, he' s kid that made a mistake. I don't see any indication of what I've read before this, to lump him in the category.
In no way does this excuse all the other things...but a mistake is a mistake and it does look like they were trying to learn from it. It only takes one time to get pregnant. That is a lesson kids learn all the time.
One of the problems in society today is some people think they are above the fact that this stuff could happen and crucify others based on this. It's not right to do.
I have a different opinion. The R's and W's were not family or blood so familicide doesn't apply. That photo is from years ago, the W's son got the R's minor daughter pregnant and (in my world) you don't like him/them. You don't do anything that you don't have to do.
We have to beware of rumors and maybe I missed this but what source has said that KR and BW were friends. (It seems to me that the hate would come from HR's parents not KR) SW was HR's daughter not KR's. There was NO custody agreement in court and I can't figure out why the W's would kill HR's parents and brothers unless it was over custody. If HR died, then her mom, her dad, her brothers would have received custody IMO over any of the R's. HR had full custody of SW. If JW took her to KY without HR's approval then it was kidnapping. There was no legal way for JW to obtain full custody without SW 'and' the court's approval with a hearing. I want to know the attorney's name that wrote the forged custody document too.. If it wasn't the state of Ohio's form then it was illegal.
The question will be answered in court.
I know that I did not have a link yesterday to the news article and I corrected that.
Please feel free to tell me my mistakes in the future.
I am asking for a link to KR and BW relationship because it seems to be necessary or we should just all go to those wild wild west places.
The topic of sexual abuse is always very difficult. Many people suffer from it. No one should be in denial.
That being said, I don't consider JW as a sex offender either on the sole basis of what we know.
Beyond law, it's also a matter of appreciation with individuals and their family culture.
That's where the background of HMRs parents comes in. Being in this situation themselves, i do not see them making a strong matter of JWs and HMRs age. I could be wrong though.
FW alledgedly lied under oath and also told the W's what was asked of her during the grand jury hearing. I know both are illegal. I 'guess' that sitting in and listening and/or participating in the planned retribution against the now Governor, Sheriff and BCI SA were all legal?