Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by tlcya, Jul 29, 2017.
Wow what an amazing find! How did you come across this!?
Get this - FW started taking significant mortgages out against the properties in mid-2013. I’m still trying to compare them all but it was done under the Fredericka Wagner trust. The FW trust then transferred the properties, which still have mortgages against them to White Pines. How can White Pines have land contracts to sale properties that are mortgaged?
Anyone have enough of an understanding of real estate transactions to explain the process?
Maybe someone else could verify they are the same properties in case I am misunderstanding.
They hold a clear title to the land. The person entering a land contract does not have a true interest in the property until it is transferred into their name. This occurs when the buyer pays off the land contract. FW gets around this by demanding a balloon payment after the 5th year of the buyer making a small payment monthly. At the 5th year, the balance of the loan is due. Most people entering these contracts can't qualify for a regular home loan, so FW gets to keep the land.
Super sleuthing, Tiff!! Sounds like all of it definitely had some purpose! Bet all of it will come out.
Wow. Is this legal?
The part of getting around it makes sense. Are you saying FW holds clear title? It doesn’t show the mortgage initiated with the FW and GW Trust on July 8, 2013 as being released?
It is how the mortgage was written. It was probably changed to a super loan, and as long as FW is making the
payment to the bank, all is ok with bank. Since FW is probably the major stockholder in White Pines Realty, she
can do this between her assets. Have you found an interesting connection to Montogomery, Ohio? This will
keep you very busy.
I haven’t looked there. Any pointers on what I would look under in Montgomery?
If FW no longer makes payment on the mortgage against said properties, I’m guessing her land contracts would mean nothing? The individuals would be out to the street if the bank took it back?
I haven’t read all the many pages of fine print in the mortgage document.
In a corporation, the stockholders are only liable up to the value of their stock. This is why most
use a $500.00 figure. The problems occur when a stockholder personally signs something. If I
remember correctly, when FW started White Pines Realty, only around 131 acres were put in
the realty's name. There is no way, FW is going to make a move to lose control of the farm.
A land contract has nothing to do with the bank. It is strictly a legal contract between the land
owner and the buyer.
Before Junior died, they had ample time to have everything in order. The clue is how FW and
Junior got and manage to keep the farm...
Is 04-060000 the Flying W Farm?
It's from an online forum called "Chronicle of the Horse".
You might like this:
(Name XXXXX )
Join Date: Mar. 27, 2014
Post from Nov. 23, 2018, 01:57 PM
"Huh. I bought Wonder Pony from them.
The possible drug stuff? Makes so much sense. Something definitely didn't seem right, but I ignored it.
On the day I was supposed to wire money, Fredericka called me and said Angela had quoted me the wrong price on the mare. Suddenly, Wonder Pony is 'one of the best horses' they'd ever bred and worth way more money.
Interesting. Then why weren't you taking better care of her?
Anyway. I told her no deal and walked. She called me back ASAP and said never mind, we'll take the original offer."
Fredericka Wagner/Flying W Farms arrested in Pike County, Ohio murders. - Chronicle Forums
So we know for sure the Wagner's worked for Fred. Jake mentioned it in his custody court filing, Billy was taking a horse to the vet in a Flying W Farms trailer when he was arrested, and according to the Horse Chronicles, Angela was helping to sell horses for Fred.
This is probably why they came back from Alaska, their Peterson Rd. house and land money couldn't last forever, and working for Fred was their lifeline...My 2 Cents.....
This is fairly common. You can't make the balloon pmt. then you've basically been renting. Five years seems like a long time to save, and get your credit cleaned up. Land owners can't be a bank forever. either. It's sad. There is, something within this region, and maybe all of the U.S., idk, but it was instilled in us that you needed to own your own piece of land. Land ownership is very important. It gives security in a what is many times, a financially insecure region. If you own that land, you have a place to lay your head.
I would if we had a pen built to put them. We have raised hogs before, they are alot of work and you don't want them on dirt, they will dig and root to China!
The image attached is what was trusted to WPines. I don’t see a reference to any stock on the Secretary of State site. The more I look at the parcel numbers, I’m thinking she actually may have mortgaged the farm.
It appears the farm is 04-060000
845 Bethel Hill appears to be 04-030800
The mortgage appears to be against it and 04-030800, 04-030600, and 04-0600.33.
Just have to say that I appreciate your research. You come up with some interesting stuff. Thankx...
Why take a mortgage against the key family properties and move the rest to a trust inWPines?
Here is the Exhibit A on the mortgage.
04-064700 that I forgot to mention above is where I believe the cow business was. It was also where Billy and Angela reportedly lived when they filed their marriage application.
What if the Wagner’s have been having financial problems for some time?
What FW was probably doing, in the beginning to the life of White Pines Realty, to show a purpose and be able
to offer land contracts, WP Realty needed land. The trust had land. FW and Junior deeded the land (total of 131
acres) to White Pine Realty. White Pine Realty had no assets but the $500.00 from the sale of stock. The trust sold
the 131 acres to WP Realty by way of a mortgage. The trust holds the mortgage. When a land contract is entered into with a buyer, the proceeds are used to pay the mortgage to the trust. No banks are involved, just the Trust. FW
holds a clear title to Flying W Farms land. White Pine Realty is owned through stock owned by FW. This purpose is
that the stock can be transferred to heirs and never seen by a probate court. Complete legal.
Wondering... do you refer to Montgomery County Ohio or Montgomery
City in Hamilton County?
Where is a reference to the stock sale? I don't see a mortgage to White Pines. It looks like these are separate properties listed in the mortgage.
I appreciate the help in trying to understand this. Can you explain how the parcels line up with the mortgage document? That might help.