OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#49

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Betty P said:
BBM

Have always wondered that, too. Great post and great work all for considering they were trying to re-create a scene in "Boondock Saints". Have avoided watching it, but guess I'll have to. And, yes, the delay in waiting for Gary to arrive really put them in a rush to finish. If only Gary had stayed out longer, wherever he was, fewer people would have died. No shade on Gary, though, poor guy. He had no way of knowing.

Also praise for Puzzles earlier post putting pieces together about the alleged text messages between JM and JW the night of the murders. LE must have really been scratching their heads over that until they figured out that JW hacked JM's phone. Maybe that was the turning point, when LE realized the Wagners were lying to them. JMO, all the hacking, emails, texts, etc. will be decisive in getting convictions against all of them.
Click to expand...

https://www.google.com/search?q=boodock%20saint%20putting%20coins%20on%20the%20eyes&tbm=
I wonder if that crazy bunch went to far acting out the movie?
 
Yellowbeak said:
Has anyone entertained the idea that they didn’t know BR was even there? He could have been cuddled up in a ball under a blanket on the couch and they weren’t aware he was there. JMO
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Well this is new. The possibility that the killers weren't aware that B** was even over there.

The links I/Betty posted on this page show that CRob said that an illness was going through B**'s childcare and so she asked if Frankie and HG would take him, obviously for that Friday. So she dropped him off that Thursday night and she said she was there until about 10:30pm.

Thus, yes it is actually possible the killers didn't know he was there and overlooked him.
What a shock for them it would be to discover him at the scene, or to find out he was there, after the fact, from the media.

This ties into the debate of what would have happened if the other 3 had spent the night? Kendra, MG, and DS? Would the killers be surprised? Or were the homes bugged so the killers knew exactly who was there that night?
 
Cool Cats said:
Well this is new. The possibility that the killers weren't aware that B** was even over there.

The links I/Betty posted on this page show that CRob said that an illness was going through B**'s childcare and so she asked if Frankie and HG would take him, obviously for that Friday. So she dropped him off that Thursday night and she said she was there until about 10:30pm.

Thus, yes it is actually possible the killers didn't know he was there and overlooked him.
What a shock for them it would be to discover him at the scene, or to find out he was there, after the fact, from the media.

This ties into the debate of what would have happened if the other 3 had spent the night? Kendra, MG, and DS? Would the killers be surprised? Or were the homes bugged so the killers knew exactly who was there that night?
Click to expand...

I can't wait to learn the answers to those questions. We know from the discovery, etc. that some electronic monitoring was still going on up until the W's moved to AK. I wonder if they had audio bugs or cameras at the crime scenes, how much were they monitoring before the murders?

The discovery docs give some indication of the types of surveillance, but not a lot about where it was located, etc.

JMO, if other adults had stayed over the night at any of the victims' homes, they, too would have been killed.
 
Cool Cats said:
Well this is new. The possibility that the killers weren't aware that B** was even over there.

The links I/Betty posted on this page show that CRob said that an illness was going through B**'s childcare and so she asked if Frankie and HG would take him, obviously for that Friday. So she dropped him off that Thursday night and she said she was there until about 10:30pm.

Thus, yes it is actually possible the killers didn't know he was there and overlooked him.
What a shock for them it would be to discover him at the scene, or to find out he was there, after the fact, from the media.

This ties into the debate of what would have happened if the other 3 had spent the night? Kendra, MG, and DS? Would the killers be surprised? Or were the homes bugged so the killers knew exactly who was there that night?
Click to expand...
With all the hacking devices that the killers had supposed yo have used they had to know that CRob was there the night before the murders? Or maybe they missed that while preparing to go to the site. JMO
 
Puzzles8 said:
I think the text message was reportedly sent from James Manley to Jake.

There is an interesting discrepancy between these two articles.

Manley said he believes BCI placed the GPS unit on his son's truck because they told him that James had texted Wagner at 2 a.m. on the morning of the murders. Manley said he believes poor cell service could have led to a delay in the text message's delivery.
"If that text was sent at 8 or 9 o'clock at night and that boy didn't get it until the next morning," Manley said.
Manley said Wagner and his son know each other but aren't friends.

Relative of Rhoden victim accused of destroying GPS appears in court

Leonard Manley said he thinks agents put the GPS device on the truck after they found a text message sent from his son's phone to Jake Wagner at 2 a.m. April 22, 2016. Jake Wagner is a former boyfriend of victim Hanna Rhoden. Leonard Manley said a BCI agent told him about the text message but did not disclose what it said.
Family members have said in the past that they routinely sent text and Facebook messages to each other.

Pike County judge: Evidence tampering charge to be heard by grand jury

Does anyone else think that the 1st statement came from the Manley family, and the 2nd statement came from the W4?

The W4 were trying to set JM up for the murders.

The W4 had also been tapping into someone's communications until about the same time JM tore the GPS off his truck.

The night of the murders, it is debated who was really posting on FB and sending text message/s.....

JMO, MOO, etc.

ETA - Wouldn't that be a great way to set JM up? Tapping into JM's phone and sending a red herring of a text message "to" JW's phone, "I'm going to go over to UHR now, they'll all be dead by morning" at 2:00am?
Click to expand...
I also think this was why they finally put the GPS on JM's truck.

That way, if one of "JM's supposed text messages" consistently pinged in a different location than the GPS location on JM's truck, they could figure out it was not really JM himself sending the incriminating texts.

JM's phone is in evidence.

JMO,MOO, etc.
 
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Puzzles8 said:
I also think this was why they finally put the GPS on JM's truck.

That way, if one of "JM's supposed text messages" consistently pinged in a different location than the GPS location on JM's truck, they could figure out it was not really JM himself sending the incriminating texts.

JM's phone is in evidence.

JMO,MOO, etc.
Click to expand...

Oh, clever. Good guess. If so, it was terrible to put that public pressure and exposure on JM. Cost him a lot of money, time lost from work, etc.

It was around that time the investigation changed direction and the Wagners began preparing in earnest to get out of town. Something tipped off LE.
 
Puzzles8 said:
I also think this was why they finally put the GPS on JM's truck.

That way, if one of "JM's supposed text messages" consistently pinged in a different location than the GPS location on JM's truck, they could figure out it was not really JM himself sending the incriminating texts.

JM's phone is in evidence.

JMO,MOO, etc.
Click to expand...

I've been perplexed about the text message, and if JM supposedly sent a text to JW or whether JW sent a text to JM. And then the GPS on JM's truck.

Your theory is the first that makes sense to me! Anxiously awaiting the trials.
 
Betty P said:
Oh, clever. Good guess. If so, it was terrible to put that public pressure and exposure on JM. Cost him a lot of money, time lost from work, etc.

It was around that time the investigation changed direction and the Wagners began preparing in earnest to get out of town. Something tipped off LE.
Click to expand...

I agree that what happened to JM was absolutely horrible. I cannot imagine the stress and hardship this caused him and his family. I never once believed he had anything to do with the murders. He was a victim and you're right, not long after that, the focus switched to the W's.
 
Betty P said:
Oh, clever. Good guess. If so, it was terrible to put that public pressure and exposure on JM. Cost him a lot of money, time lost from work, etc.

It was around that time the investigation changed direction and the Wagners began preparing in earnest to get out of town. Something tipped off LE.
Click to expand...

According to James Manley's arrest warrant, the GPS tracker was put on his truck on April 22nd 2017, apx. 11:07am:
rohden murders - Bing images

Friday May 12th 2017, the Wagner's Peterson Rd. house was searched.
Only 20 days later.

Yes I agree that something happened, hmmm, :rolleyes: that tipped off LE. I believe it's no coincidence the searches happened only 20 days later.
 
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Cool Cats said:
According to James Manley's arrest warrant, the GPS tracker was put on his truck on April 22nd 2017, apx. 11:07am.

Friday May 12th 2017, the Wagner's Peterson Rd. house was searched.
Only 20 days later.

Yes I agree that something happened, hmmm, :rolleyes: that tipped off LE. I believe it's no coincidence the searches happened only 20 days later.
Click to expand...

I think they were already onto them before the GPS.

They interviewed JW on May 25, 2016, BW on September 9, 2016, AW on October 5, 2016, and JW on April 13, 2017.

I can understand the 1st JW interview because he was the father of the only child that was not there. If there was a fight (that could be a rumor) then I can understand BW interview. Why did they wait a month after BW to interview Grandma Angela? What prompted them to interview JW in April 2017?

My opinion, is that they were onto them earlier than we might think.

JMO. MOO.
 
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Locks on FR and HG trailer home:
BJ said the door was locked and she convinced the young (3yr old) to open (unlock) the door. There has been talk of a chain lock on the door. I think a 3yr old kid could open a chain lock if he had seen it done and he wanted to be on the other side for some reason. I don't think a chain lock played a part in this. If the kid was wakened by "Aunt BJ" banging on the door (locked), I could be that all was locked by a common "knob lock" with a button or little circular lever thing in the knob. In that case the kid just had to go over and rotate the knob a bit and the door would be unlocked. I have seen cats open a chain lock and kids are moderately smarter than cats, so the kid could have opened the chain as well.
I have seen no reports that the windows were open before the SHTF. Only that they were open on the helicopter video.
Also:
Could the GPS on the PU truck been a setup of the Wagner's? To let them think JM was the focus?
 
Betty P said:
Oh, good grief, that's scary. Was that also somehow behind throwing money on KR's body? What a combination these killers were: incredibly evil, backwards and stupid. It's kind of scary that there are other people out there in our world who think the same way.
Click to expand...
MMO
I think the bills on KR were a red herring to try to mislead LE into thinking these murders were only about drugs.

I can't say for sure why the quarters were used in the movie. I do know that shortly after death, a corpse's eyes will start to open, sometimes quarters will be placed on them to keep them shut.
There are also spiritual reasons quarters are placed over the eyes.
Coins on the Eyes of the Dead | TheBody
 
Antimony said:
Locks on FR and HG trailer home:
BJ said the door was locked and she convinced the young (3yr old) to open (unlock) the door. There has been talk of a chain lock on the door. I think a 3yr old kid could open a chain lock if he had seen it done and he wanted to be on the other side for some reason. I don't think a chain lock played a part in this. If the kid was wakened by "Aunt BJ" banging on the door (locked), I could be that all was locked by a common "knob lock" with a button or little circular lever thing in the knob. In that case the kid just had to go over and rotate the knob a bit and the door would be unlocked. I have seen cats open a chain lock and kids are moderately smarter than cats, so the kid could have opened the chain as well.
I have seen no reports that the windows were open before the SHTF. Only that they were open on the helicopter video.
Also:
Could the GPS on the PU truck been a setup of the Wagner's? To let them think JM was the focus?
Click to expand...

The chain on the door might be true because B*** stepped up on something to unlock the door and he wouldn't have to reach up that far if he's only unlocking a door knob. Plus he was tall for his age according to CRob. In an interview BJM said B*** had stepped up/climbed up on something. Not sure how it was worded.

Only 2 Cents until I find the link.

The helicopter video (plus other window photographs) were taken when the crime scenes were still being investigated. LE would not have opened the windows if they were closed when they arrived. They have to process and photograph everything as is.

So I'm sure the windows were open, and left open, when LE arrived around 8:00 am that morning. Processing the homes, outbuildings, vehicles, land etc...would have taken at least a few days. It took 4 weeks just for LE to unblock UHR.

And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if LE led the Wagners to believe that they were focused on the Manleys when in actuality they were laser focused on them.

......2 Cents.......
 
OhioBlues said:
I think they were already onto them before the GPS.

They interviewed JW on May 25, 2016, BW on September 9, 2016, AW on October 5, 2016, and JW on April 13, 2017.

I can understand the 1st JW interview because he was the father of the only child that was not there. If there was a fight (that could be a rumor) then I can understand BW interview. Why did they wait a month after BW to interview Grandma Angela? What prompted them to interview JW in April 2017?

My opinion, is that they were onto them earlier than we might think.

JMO. MOO.
Click to expand...

BBM: "My opinion, is that they were onto them earlier than we might think."

Yes, agree. October 2016. No more Cartel, Sheriff Reader said it was locals. That would have spooked the Wagners. Note, that they sold their home in March 2017. I wonder if the "local" comment was one reason?

They were counting on manipulating LE into thinking it was drug/ Cartel related. Thus, the dollar bills thrown on Kenny, high number of victims, and execution style shooting.
Putting money on a body symbolizes that you were greedy and stole from them, them being an organized group of criminals.

For LE to only take 4 months to see through the Wagner's ruse must have been devastating to them. They probably panicked and thought about getting away, then they did go away, in my opinion to get away from being tracked and having to give interviews in person.

Jake said "it" followed them there. He said rumors, but I bet he was thinking BCI and BCI Agent S.
.......2 Cents.........
 
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OhioBlues said:
I think they were already onto them before the GPS.

They interviewed JW on May 25, 2016, BW on September 9, 2016, AW on October 5, 2016, and JW on April 13, 2017.

I can understand the 1st JW interview because he was the father of the only child that was not there. If there was a fight (that could be a rumor) then I can understand BW interview. Why did they wait a month after BW to interview Grandma Angela? What prompted them to interview JW in April 2017?

My opinion, is that they were onto them earlier than we might think.

JMO. MOO.
Click to expand...

I think JW was feeding LE "leads" in April, that may be why he was interviewed then. He may have spun the story to LE about the red truck that had been sold to JM, the one LE said was part of a murder investigation. Not sure when JM got the red truck, but it may have been around that time. I think JW somehow made sure JM got the truck, then gave the tip to LE.

I wonder if LE had access to JW's phone/text messages by then? They had probably gotten all the victims and close family records early on, but the Wagners? The Manleys had already cooperated with the investigation, turning over prints, DNA, etc.

JMO
 
Antimony said:
Locks on FR and HG trailer home:
BJ said the door was locked and she convinced the young (3yr old) to open (unlock) the door. There has been talk of a chain lock on the door. I think a 3yr old kid could open a chain lock if he had seen it done and he wanted to be on the other side for some reason. I don't think a chain lock played a part in this. If the kid was wakened by "Aunt BJ" banging on the door (locked), I could be that all was locked by a common "knob lock" with a button or little circular lever thing in the knob. In that case the kid just had to go over and rotate the knob a bit and the door would be unlocked. I have seen cats open a chain lock and kids are moderately smarter than cats, so the kid could have opened the chain as well.
I have seen no reports that the windows were open before the SHTF. Only that they were open on the helicopter video.
Also:
Could the GPS on the PU truck been a setup of the Wagner's? To let them think JM was the focus?
Click to expand...

Welcome Antimony! Apologies if we hadn't welcomed you before now.

Agree about the Wagners trying to set up JM. As for the chain on the door at Frankies, If the Wagners left by the front door, they wouldn't have been able to fasten a chain lock before leaving. They would have only been able to lock the knob lock button. Right?

JMO
 
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