UNSOLVED Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dudly

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
3,104
Reaction score
12,936
Very scary. As I said most people are terrified of these loonies and if, that being a big IF, there was some kind of wing nut militia involved in these murders, I can see no one wanting to speak up. Being that most of these nuts are associated with a cult like religion of some sort, I can see why they would leave the babies alive.

The question is, did The R's, namely CR1 and KR and the W's belong to any such group?

We don't have anything to prove they did. All we know for certain is the W's moved to AK, to a town where there is a militia presence who's leader is Norm Olsen, who was also involved by grace of both Nichols and McVeigh attending meetings held by his group, in the OKC bombing. We know the W's attended a church in AK that was connected with a church they attended in Ohio.

But if, and again this is a big IF, the W's belonged to any such group, that group would certainly have the training and firepower to carry out these murders, and in keeping with Reader saying the killers are local, which if it was a group operating in Pike county, they would be locals. Also those groups generate the kind of loyalty that none of their members talk to LE and if anyone else knows or sees anything they are too afraid to speak up.

Looking like more of a fit than I would like to see.

I get so nauseated when any mention of militias come up that I cannot even think.

Maybe someone else on here can contribute some thoughts on this line of speculation.

JMO

I know someone that backs militias wholeheartedly but is not a member of one as far as I know. He feels they are needed for when the government comes to take everyone's guns. He is definitely not affiliated with any religious group of any kind. I doubt he has been in a church or to any religious activity in 40 of his 45+ years.
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,083
Reaction score
67,815
I get it. Hillbilly Justice. But why not just all leave town, go north and skip the killings?

Maybe the only ones who left were the guilty ones, who had lost their "protection" and were told to get out of town. It's hard work keeping a lid on this case, but people are making it work.
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,083
Reaction score
67,815
I know someone that backs militias wholeheartedly but is not a member of one as far as I know. He feels they are needed for when the government comes to take everyone's guns. He is definitely not affiliated with any religious group of any kind. I doubt he has been in a church or to any religious activity in 40 of his 45+ years.

Yes, there are probably about 3 or so factions of the US militia crowd. Depending on their particular authoritarian, psychopathic gripe, they get involved for one or a combination reasons:

Neo-Nazi/Klan - racism, anti-semitism, xenophobia/hatred of immigrants

Extreme radical religious beliefs including - authoritarianism, misogyny, sexual perversion

Ant-government extremism - paranoia, profit motive, love of guns and violence

All involve violence, secrecy and hostility to anyone outside their group
 

Charliegizmo49

Former Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Messages
1,869
Reaction score
11,657
I know someone that backs militias wholeheartedly but is not a member of one as far as I know. He feels they are needed for when the government comes to take everyone's guns. He is definitely not affiliated with any religious group of any kind. I doubt he has been in a church or to any religious activity in 40 of his 45+ years.


I agree. My point is militias ofen use like minded conservative organized religion as a source for recruitment. And it’s fairly successful. Some churches are born from the militia itself.
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,083
Reaction score
67,815
This isn't directly related to this case, but here is another story of corrupt LE.

FBI: Sheriff was bribed to shelter drug dealer for 15 years

This may be a bigger problem than many realize, especially in small towns and counties where wages are low and budgets are constantly being cut. Also, not a lot of oversight. I don't know how any state govt expects to deal with their drug addiction crisis if they're not paying attention to corruption and are constantly cutting budgets and undermining the tax base of local governments. They're just making the problem worse, and they know it.

It's become a problem at higher levels of law enforcement, too.

From the article, this is interesting

The scheme began to collapse June 12, when the FBI says it persuaded the dealer to become a confidential informant. The FBI arrested the 58-year-old Brewer on Friday, charging him with conspiracy to sell drugs and extortion.

DeWine, BCI and Pike County may want to be careful about keeping the FBI at arm's length in this murder investigation. It could backfire. That said, DeWine and Kasich have a lot of power in Washington DC...
 
Last edited:

RAISINISBACK

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
3,186
Reaction score
15,513
I know someone that backs militias wholeheartedly but is not a member of one as far as I know. He feels they are needed for when the government comes to take everyone's guns. He is definitely not affiliated with any religious group of any kind. I doubt he has been in a church or to any religious activity in 40 of his 45+ years.

BBM
I think there are a lot of people like that. They think having an armed citizenry is a good thing. And we do have an armed citizenry here in this country. Responsible people who own guns and act in a responsible non violent way with those guns.

It is when you combine the absolute belief in the right to own a gun with extreme religious beliefs that you have trouble. It doesn't seem your friend falls in this category as he favors the one but has no interest in the other.

Then you have those militias like the ones that Norm Olsen establishes. The ones that attract lunatics like McVeigh and Nichols.

The ones that are not established to defend citizens but who's sole purpose is to get rid of the present government so they can take over and become the supreme leader for life and have all the power. Those are the crazies that we all need to beware of. Because believe me, they don't have your best interests at heart. They don't care about anyone's welfare but their own and they would kill you in a heartbeat if it suited them to do so. The ones that blow up a government building, the ones who kill 168 innocent people, babies in day care, old people there to get their social security, teenagers there to get a social security card, mothers there to get cards for their kids, office workers.

I never understood this obsession some people have that the government is out to take all their guns. The government doesn't need to take the guns of armed citizens away from them. All they have to do is ban the sales of bullets. Then you are left with a useless piece of scrap iron that if you are lucky you can use to throw at someone. And before someone on here jumps in to say people can store bullets, let me say this, gunpowder degrades over time, making it useless. So stockpiling bullets is a waste of good money just like stockpiling guns is.

JMO
 

RichP

Member
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
68
Reaction score
57
All they have to do is ban the sales of bullets. Then you are left with a useless piece of scrap iron that if you are lucky you can use to throw at someone. And before someone on here jumps in to say people can store bullets, let me say this, gunpowder degrades over time, making it useless. So stockpiling bullets is a waste of good money just like stockpiling guns is.

JMO[/QUOTE]

Smokeless powder lasts a LONG time. Just a few references.

How long will smokeless powder keep? - The Firing Line Forums

How to Determine Gunpowder Shelf Life - RifleShooter

How long does powder last?
 

Dudly

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
3,104
Reaction score
12,936
BBM
I think there are a lot of people like that. They think having an armed citizenry is a good thing. And we do have an armed citizenry here in this country. Responsible people who own guns and act in a responsible non violent way with those guns.

It is when you combine the absolute belief in the right to own a gun with extreme religious beliefs that you have trouble. It doesn't seem your friend falls in this category as he favors the one but has no interest in the other.

Then you have those militias like the ones that Norm Olsen establishes. The ones that attract lunatics like McVeigh and Nichols.

The ones that are not established to defend citizens but who's sole purpose is to get rid of the present government so they can take over and become the supreme leader for life and have all the power. Those are the crazies that we all need to beware of. Because believe me, they don't have your best interests at heart. They don't care about anyone's welfare but their own and they would kill you in a heartbeat if it suited them to do so. The ones that blow up a government building, the ones who kill 168 innocent people, babies in day care, old people there to get their social security, teenagers there to get a social security card, mothers there to get cards for their kids, office workers.

I never understood this obsession some people have that the government is out to take all their guns. The government doesn't need to take the guns of armed citizens away from them. All they have to do is ban the sales of bullets. Then you are left with a useless piece of scrap iron that if you are lucky you can use to throw at someone. And before someone on here jumps in to say people can store bullets, let me say this, gunpowder degrades over time, making it useless. So stockpiling bullets is a waste of good money just like stockpiling guns is.

JMO

The NRA and gun manufacturers pushed that idea. The NRA made out big in membership fees and gun manufacturers made out big in heavy sales. It was also a political stunt as I heard Obama was going to take everyone's guns for eight years.
They started a rumor about banning ammo also. It was in short supply a pretty good while from everyone buying it before they could no longer get it. Some types like .22 LR are still not real easy to find in my area. Walmart was limiting sales on .22 LR shells. I don't know if they still are...
 

RAISINISBACK

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
3,186
Reaction score
15,513
The NRA and gun manufacturers pushed that idea. The NRA made out big in membership fees and gun manufacturers made out big in heavy sales. It was also a political stunt as I heard Obama was going to take everyone's guns for eight years.
They started a rumor about banning ammo also. It was in short supply a pretty good while from everyone buying it before they could no longer get it. Some types like .22 LR are still not real easy to find in my area. Walmart was limiting sales on .22 LR shells. I don't know if they still are...

I don't know about where you are, but hubby has two service revolvers, 40 caliber Glocks I think. Anyway a few years back he had trouble getting bullets to practice at the range with for awhile.

At any rate we are the proud owners of a few guns collecting dust in a gun safe. I am not sure what kind, except I do know hubby has a 1911 Colt 45 that was made in 1959. He also has a Ruger 289DC that was FBI issued. It is all titanium, very light weight.
 
Last edited:

rsd1200

If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
10,053
Reaction score
22,850
The NRA and gun manufacturers pushed that idea. The NRA made out big in membership fees and gun manufacturers made out big in heavy sales. It was also a political stunt as I heard Obama was going to take everyone's guns for eight years.
They started a rumor about banning ammo also. It was in short supply a pretty good while from everyone buying it before they could no longer get it. Some types like .22 LR are still not real easy to find in my area. Walmart was limiting sales on .22 LR shells. I don't know if they still are...

O/T
BBM
Walmart ended the limits last year, I think.

They pushed so hard they didn't realize what would happen when all the stars aligned in their favor, the House/Senate and office of POTUS.

I hate for folks to lose their jobs, but I think the gun mfgs, and the NRA, thought that another candidate for POTUS would win, and they'd have a minimum, of four years to run with; "She's coming for your guns". That dog won't hunt now. Remington filed for bankruptcy, earlier this year, and cited that it was because of low sales and high debt. Other firearms, and firearms-related, companies, are also laying folks off.
 

RAISINISBACK

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 6, 2016
Messages
3,186
Reaction score
15,513
All they have to do is ban the sales of bullets. Then you are left with a useless piece of scrap iron that if you are lucky you can use to throw at someone. And before someone on here jumps in to say people can store bullets, let me say this, gunpowder degrades over time, making it useless. So stockpiling bullets is a waste of good money just like stockpiling guns is.

JMO

Smokeless powder lasts a LONG time. Just a few references.

How long will smokeless powder keep? - The Firing Line Forums

How to Determine Gunpowder Shelf Life - RifleShooter

How long does powder last?[/QUOTE]

If you are shooting them to practice with they will disappear at a fast rate if they are banned.
 

rsd1200

If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
10,053
Reaction score
22,850

If you are shooting them to practice with they will disappear at a fast rate if they are banned.[/QUOTE]

O/T

There are more folks than you'd think who make their own ammo. My father made some of his, and collectors will have the stuff to make theirs, because there won't be ammo available for antique, or unique, firearms a lot of the time. Then there's folks who just like to make their own ammo.

Not to get off topic and on to firearms, there's a thread for that.
 

MittenScarpetta

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Messages
1,830
Reaction score
8,332
What does everyone consider “local”? When LE stated they believed the killers were local and still in the area, I wonder what their radius was in terms of being local. I’m also starting to wonder if about 90% of what the public was told in press conferences and interviews is not accurate. Kinda of like a dog and pony show. Reverse psychology in hopes someone will slip up.
 

Dudly

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
3,104
Reaction score
12,936
O/T
BBM
Walmart ended the limits last year, I think.

They pushed so hard they didn't realize what would happen when all the stars aligned in their favor, the House/Senate and office of POTUS.

I hate for folks to lose their jobs, but I think the gun mfgs, and the NRA, thought that another candidate for POTUS would win, and they'd have a minimum, of four years to run with; "She's coming for your guns". That dog won't hunt now. Remington filed for bankruptcy, earlier this year, and cited that it was because of low sales and high debt. Other firearms, and firearms-related, companies, are also laying folks off.

I too hated to see jobs lost. The manufacturers I have no sympathy for because of the narrative that was pushed to increase sales. They had my son convinced that the government was going to take everyone's guns. I tried to tell him it was virtually impossible for that to happen but he knew better. He read it on the internet...lol
 

Betty P

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
16,083
Reaction score
67,815
Good question. They seemed to imply the killers were from the Piketon - Peebles area, at least Pike County. But yes, very vague. Their hostile, aggressive messaging conflicts with their lack of action in pursuing many of the people linked to the killings. One group of suspects was allowed to move out of state. A couple other individuals linked to similar murders in the area aren't arrested or are briefly jailed for minor offenses. o_O

It's likely much of the scant information released to the public is inaccurate. Whatever their motive, it hasn't worked. Or maybe it has.

ETA: From the first hours of the murders hitting the news, I've been highly skeptical of any information released by DeWine, BCI or local PD. The nexus of law enforcement, criminal justice and politics has been sketchy for decades in this state. JMO. Everything has a price.

What does everyone consider “local”? When LE stated they believed the killers were local and still in the area, I wonder what their radius was in terms of being local. I’m also starting to wonder if about 90% of what the public was told in press conferences and interviews is not accurate. Kinda of like a dog and pony show. Reverse psychology in hopes someone will slip up.
 

Dudly

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
3,104
Reaction score
12,936
What does everyone consider “local”? When LE stated they believed the killers were local and still in the area, I wonder what their radius was in terms of being local. I’m also starting to wonder if about 90% of what the public was told in press conferences and interviews is not accurate. Kinda of like a dog and pony show. Reverse psychology in hopes someone will slip up.

I have wondered if the "local" was used to get people to talk because they wouldn't want these killers living among them. That was also early on and a lot of what they said early on was not real accurate. Then you also have the fact that LE can BS all they want and it is legal. They had to say something to appease the masses...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top