OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #36 *Arrests*

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Rickshaw, I believe there were seat covers involved, according to the photo shown on sm. Also pieces of carpet. Now I must say, afaik.

Just making sure I'm reading this correctly bc I missed all of this earlier... did the purchaser of AWs vehicle post pictures on social media of the seat covers? And do you recall if the purchaser was in support of the Wagners or coming to their defense on the social media thread? (I would assume the buyer of the vehicle wouldn't get on social media and be accusatory, since the Ws would know or could find out their address.) TIA
 
BBM

Perhaps you could help me understand why all the vitriol is shown to those who question or think differently.


I think that we were all just excited at first to have an arrest. We have been on here so long, had so many discussions, sometimes very heated discussions, and did so much research that the guilt of the W's was an obvious conclusion to over two years of work and we were impatient that not everyone could see it. things have cooled down now and we are beginning to realize that others are entitled to their opinions even if they differ from ours.

I just don't understand the emotionalism expended on a case when one does not have a direct impact on their life from said case.

Frankly I do not understand it in myself either. I live over 800 miles from Ohio. But yet I have been on here since a few days after the murders. Hubby and my family probably thinks I am crazy but are just too polite to say it. Hubby especially has patiently spent hours listening to me talk about it. Maybe since talk and opinions are free he thinks it is a cheap enough hobby. Who knows?

But this crime grabbed my attention from day one. It was the sheer brutality of killers going door to door and killing an entire family that pulled at me. I wanted to know why. I wanted a motive. I wanted to be able to understand why someone would do that.

I have my answer, have had it for about a year and a half. But now I want justice. Justice for the victims who worked hard to provide for and raise their children. Justice for the young girls who's lives were just beginning. Justice for a child who had just gotten his drivers license. Justice for LM and GenvaR. Those two old people who have struggled through life just getting by to have their twilight years filled with the unimaginable pain of having their kids and grandchildren senselessly slaughtered by a family who thought they were entitled to everything.

JMO

ETA: I also think that after 2 1/2 years of discussing and researching the R's that we all feel that they are at least like close friends since we now know more about them than we often do our friends in real life.

Exactly THIS.
 
PVC pipe with matching tool marks. Rolls of tape with matching ends where it's torn from the roll. I'm sure they can match factory run batches of tapes, too. Tape on silencers from same factory run batch as a roll found somewhere on the property. Matching the "part" of the silencer left behind at one of the murder scenes as a perfect fit to the silencer recently found by LE. Any blood still remaining on the silencer recently found by LE being a match to any of the victims... or a mixture of victims blood. Matching whatever material they used to pack the silencer with the same material if any was found on the property.
And, as you mention, shavings can probably be chemically analyzed and could possibly be matched to the part made for the silencer recently found by LE. No doubt LE can name many more things and that might be why Gov. DeWine seemed so enthusiastic about getting a hold of the silencer and called it the piece of evidence needed to make arrests.


Does anyone know where or how the silencers were found? I'm sorry, but I missed that part of the discussion. TIA
 
IQuestion I think Myland may be from the area and is struggling to understand how people he/she knows personally could commit such a horrible crime. Myland finds it hard to believe and is looking for answers. Why our opinion on here matters so much to her/him I don't know. But I think we should continue to try to help her/him to understand why we think the Wagners are guilty.

And I think we should all try to be patient and listen to the theories of others as we have been doing for the last 2 1/2 years.

I am one of those who have been saying for the last year or so that the Wagners are guilty. But I am trying to be patient with those who have a different opinion.

What we must realize is that the Wagners have been the most famous and influential family in that area for generations. People look up to them. They envy them their thousands of acres of land and million dollar horses while they themselves are working and struggling to make ends meet. At the same time they are proud of the world famous family in their midst. They put them on a pedestal and proudly point them out to visitors.

It is the way of all communities. I bet you have such a family in your community. Mine has one. Every community has one or two.

But what communities don't want to realize is that the people they put on a pedestal has feet of clay.

I think Reader struggled with this in the beginning. So did the M's and R's and G's. If you will remember at the beginning LM was very reluctant to name names. We thought he was afraid when he stopped in the middle of a sentence and told the reporters "Well I'm not going to say anything else." But I think he just couldn't bring himself to believe that a family that everyone looked up to for generations could have been responsible for the slaughter of his family.

But the very fact that the Wagners were such a wealthy and well respected family should convince the people of the area that LE had the evidence or they would never have dared arrest them. Especially Fredricka Wagner. No way would the LE that her taxes paid their salary would have ventured into that lions den without being armed with iron clad proof of her guilt.

What people in the area do not realize is the Wagners are extremely dangerous people. Not only did they slaughter an entire family of 8 people, they were planning to kill 3 public officials that were only doing the job they were paid to do. They were even planning to kill members of their own family that might turn.

Where would it have all stopped had LE not arrested them?

JMO

Is there evidence of them planning additional murders? I know one of them made threats against public officials upon her arrest, IIRC. But I wasn't aware of actual plans that were discovered.
 
Perhaps you could help me understand why all the vitriol is shown to those who question or think differently. I just don't understand the emotionalism expended on a case when one does not have a direct impact on their life from said case. And thank you for the tip on the ignore. I'm going to find it now. :)
If two teams are playing football, see what happens if one team starts playing soccer. Just watch the fury from the other team and their fans.

I don't think people get upset because someone has a different opinion, it's because they don't follow the rules of the forum, which is to cite evidence and rational thought processes in making their arguments.
 
I think it would be easier to have lined all surfaces in the vehicle with plastic though. Waders really don't serve much of a purpose imo, because then the waders themselves get blood on them instead of a nice, light weigh pair of jeans, better suited for sneaking around while in a hurry, imo. Also.. they bought "special shoes" to wear (although, some waders do have "sock feet" so the idea of waders isn't out altogether.) But, waders make noise when you walk, too, so not very good at sneaking into homes and approaching bedrooms quietly. Trying to wash down waders between killings takes time and blood would be more likely to transfer to internal vehicle parts, I think... they'd be wet and dripping and splashing watered down blood everywhere. Then they have to be disposed of asap after the murders... it's just as easy (easier) to dispose of lightweight, dark-colored; probably black clothing. Both waders and clothing will have a lot of blood on it in any case. I think the killers would opt for ease of movement, light weight, dark clothing and whatever "special shoes" they wore. They had to know they were going to get blood all over themselves no matter what they wore, so why complicate everything with cumbersome, noisy waders that add extra weight to "carry" while playing commando men... and woman?

There is a photo, or was, of the Ws, sitting on their couch, at home, on Peterson. Iirc, they all had on camo hunting gear. I think they wore some type of lightweight, camo, hunting coveralls, with facial area, and hands covered, in addition to the "special" shoes. Unzip the coveralls, throw them in a bag, with the shoes, and burn them. Some of the blood could have gotten in the vehicle when they took the theorized plastic out, and they just did not notice, if the vehicle had dark carpeting. I think the liner in the truck is a likely scenario (maybe they watched Dexter).
 
Is there evidence of them planning additional murders? I know one of them made threats against public officials upon her arrest, IIRC. But I wasn't aware of actual plans that were discovered.

I believe that the CI said they were planning what to do if they were arrested, including getting revenge on 3 public officials and even members of their own family. I would have to go back and look at the wording but I think that is what the prosecutor told the judge. That FW had been a part of planning to kill others and also the escape of those in jail.

JMO
 
I don't think it was their first murder. I can think of at least one other that could be connected to the W's.

Unless the W's were trafficking drugs (DeWines undercurrent of drugs) then I don't see a connection between the Eapmon murders and the W's.

JMO
IMO, drug trafficking itself doesn't need to come into play. As the bottom line is the "money." Why bother with having to deal with selling of said product when all one really wants, in the end, is the money.
 
Is there evidence of them planning additional murders? I know one of them made threats against public officials upon her arrest, IIRC. But I wasn't aware of actual plans that were discovered.

Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge against investigators

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. She also alleged they spoke of taking revenge on a special agent, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader, and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

Plotting revenge was how it was worded. I took that to mean planning to murder the 3 public officials and others.

I could be wrong. Maybe FW and gang just planned to smear them on SM.

JMO
 
Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge against investigators

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. She also alleged they spoke of taking revenge on a special agent, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader, and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

Plotting revenge was how it was worded. I took that to mean planning to murder the 3 public officials and others.

I could be wrong. Maybe FW and gang just planned to smear them on SM.

JMO
Or, perhaps, did their plans involve breaking into their homes at night and shooting them in their beds?

It's hard for me to imagine, but you never know. They shoot horses, don't they?
 
Prosecutor alleges Fredericka Wagner plotted revenge against investigators

Special Prosecutor Angie Canepa alleged a confidential informant told them of a meeting at Wagner's home with her family members where they had "conversations surrounding if one or more of them were arrested what the others were to do including taking revenge on those persons not arrested" and plans for escape. She also alleged they spoke of taking revenge on a special agent, Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader, and Attorney General Mike DeWine.

Plotting revenge was how it was worded. I took that to mean planning to murder the 3 public officials and others.

I could be wrong. Maybe FW and gang just planned to smear them on SM.

JMO
I have attempted to transcribe the exact words spoken (a lot harder than I thought, but important, kudos to professional transcribers) by the prosecutor: It begins at 3:01 of this video.

"We have information from a confidential reliable resource, uh, source that there was a collection of individuals out a Ms. Wagner's home on one occassion. At least on occassion, I should say, in which she was present along with her now capital crime defendant son, Billy Wagner, along with the other 3 co-defendants all charged with capital crimes were present and the conversation surrounded if one or more of them got arrested, what the others were to do, AS FAR AS TAKING REVENGE , on those not arrested..........................."
"arrested", "taking revenge", "plans for escape" Others may interpret those words differently, but to me they indicate "consciousness of guilt."
AND from this article:

Fredricka was arrested at the family's Flying W farm in Lucasville, which had been previously raided.
Pike County: Wagner family arrested in the Rhoden family massacre
Arrests made in Ohio massacre of 8 people - and it's a family of 4
Okay, my point is coming...I PROMISE!!!
The prosecutor did not say "confidential informant" as in an individual.. instead used the words "confidential reliable resource, uh source"... COULD SHE MEAN A RECORDING DEVICE? perhaps planted in the home when the house had been previously raided?
Ya' know the old saying, "I'm not going to believe it until I hear it with my own ears"? Maybe there were other reasons for purchasing bugging devices... then ooops....someone missed that one. IMD=in my dreams.
 
Hi, I’m new here tho I have been reading these threads for a long time. This case just seems too horrific to have been done by anyone but it had to have been very personal and someone who knew them very well. So IMO if it wasn’t the Wagner’s then it was another local family and quite frankly that would be even more terrifying for those who live in Pike County. Anyway I had to join this discussion because of all the talk and theories around the silencer that was discovered. Something kept nagging me about an article I read awhile back that mentioned someone helping a friend make a silencer and they had already been questioned by LE. I kind of was taken back at the time and that the person mentioned it and thought “that’s odd could it b related?” Hope this is allowed but I have attached the article. It’s near the bottom and I have to wonder if this “help” is what led to the discovery.
Eight unsolved murders in Pike County, Ohio
 
Or, perhaps, did their plans involve breaking into their homes at night and shooting them in their beds?

It's hard for me to imagine, but you never know. They shoot horses, don't they?

BBM

That statement coming out of 4 people who slaughtered a whole family is scary.

I took the statement "plotting revenge on AG DeWine. Sheriff Reader and an unknown BCI agent" to mean they were planning to kill them. I am betting that the AG, Sheriff and Agent took it that way also.

But like you said you never know. Maybe FW and family were plotting to throw the AG, Sheriff and Agent a surprise birthday party.

JMO
 
I have attempted to transcribe the exact words spoken (a lot harder than I thought, but important, kudos to professional transcribers) by the prosecutor: It begins at 3:01 of this video.

"We have information from a confidential reliable resource, uh, source that there was a collection of individuals out a Ms. Wagner's home on one occassion. At least on occassion, I should say, in which she was present along with her now capital crime defendant son, Billy Wagner, along with the other 3 co-defendants all charged with capital crimes were present and the conversation surrounded if one or more of them got arrested, what the others were to do, AS FAR AS TAKING REVENGE , on those not arrested..........................."
"arrested", "taking revenge", "plans for escape" Others may interpret those words differently, but to me they indicate "consciousness of guilt."
AND from this article:

Fredricka was arrested at the family's Flying W farm in Lucasville, which had been previously raided.
Pike County: Wagner family arrested in the Rhoden family massacre
Arrests made in Ohio massacre of 8 people - and it's a family of 4
Okay, my point is coming...I PROMISE!!!
The prosecutor did not say "confidential informant" as in an individual.. instead used the words "confidential reliable resource, uh source"... COULD SHE MEAN A RECORDING DEVICE? perhaps planted in the home when the house had been previously raided?
Ya' know the old saying, "I'm not going to believe it until I hear it with my own ears"? Maybe there were other reasons for purchasing bugging devices... then ooops....someone missed that one. IMD=in my dreams.


Thank you IQuestion for trying to bring some sanity to the chaos.
 
Your thoughts are very reasonable and helpful. Perhaps you could help me understand why all the vitriol is shown to those who question or think differently. I just don't understand the emotionalism expended on a case when one does not have a direct impact on their life from said case. And thank you for the tip on the ignore. I'm going to find it now. :)

The rules for this forum, IMO, regarding formalities in posts, are to keep trolls at bay, among other things. Plus, it’s too easy these days for rumors to become “facts” and get cited for evidence. Good sleuthing relies on facts: you can't come up with a theory of a case without being able to distinguish facts from rumors.

And so, even for speculation, there is an underpinning of fact and the poster indicates the speculative nature of the post with IMO, “total speculation”, etc.

That’s my experience of the protocol. I will say, when I was new to the Websleuths forum, I also went through a stage where I was corrected for not citing supports for my conclusions or not calling attention to my fuzzy memory with acronyms like AFAIK and IIRC.

IIRC the poster we are referring to here was simply being asked to observe protocol not to refrain from reporting or speculating.

And yes, there are sometimes trolls, folks who simply want to stir the pot. Websleuthers need to be vigilant about that possibility.

Just sayin’.
 
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Hi, I’m new here tho I have been reading these threads for a long time. This case just seems too horrific to have been done by anyone but it had to have been very personal and someone who knew them very well. So IMO if it wasn’t the Wagner’s then it was another local family and quite frankly that would be even more terrifying for those who live in Pike County. Anyway I had to join this discussion because of all the talk and theories around the silencer that was discovered. Something kept nagging me about an article I read awhile back that mentioned someone helping a friend make a silencer and they had already been questioned by LE. I kind of was taken back at the time and that the person mentioned it and thought “that’s odd could it b related?” Hope this is allowed but I have attached the article. It’s near the bottom and I have to wonder if this “help” is what led to the discovery.
Eight unsolved murders in Pike County, Ohio
Welcome, Momof4RN. Good catch on the silencers mentioned in the article. I don’t post a lot but was welcomed so warmly after my first post—so welcome! The sleuths on this case are incredible!
 
Hi, I’m new here tho I have been reading these threads for a long time. This case just seems too horrific to have been done by anyone but it had to have been very personal and someone who knew them very well. So IMO if it wasn’t the Wagner’s then it was another local family and quite frankly that would be even more terrifying for those who live in Pike County. Anyway I had to join this discussion because of all the talk and theories around the silencer that was discovered. Something kept nagging me about an article I read awhile back that mentioned someone helping a friend make a silencer and they had already been questioned by LE. I kind of was taken back at the time and that the person mentioned it and thought “that’s odd could it b related?” Hope this is allowed but I have attached the article. It’s near the bottom and I have to wonder if this “help” is what led to the discovery.
Eight unsolved murders in Pike County, Ohio
Well Hi there MOMOof4RN! (can I call you MOMO?) You certainly provided some fabulous info (along with a link) to make my head turn and take notice. From the article you cited (close to the bottom):" Joe, who works as a mechanist, said investigators actually paid him a visit. They’d heard he’d helped a friend make some silencers, which he had, and which his friend is legally registered to do. While the dirt flew in all directions and the air turned into fumes, Joe mentioned, too, that his kin actually lived on Union Hill Rd." WOW!
Weren't the listed occupations of W bros "diesel mechanics."??? So here is my link and a wink;)

. Wagner, 24, is a diesel mechanic and an over-the-road truck driver, ...
Police spokesman wrongly says SWAT present at Pike County raid for 'suspects'
 
Thank you IQuestion for trying to bring some sanity to the chaos.
RAISINISBACK.... I just kept wondering why others were using the term confidential informant, ( have to admit I did, too.) So thought I would listen closer and viola.... the prosecutor actually said "confidential resource, uh source." (I got the feeling she changed her wording quickly from "resource" to "source" because she did not want to give too much info away?? Anybody else notice?)
That is a game changer for me.... it only makes sense that the most comprehensive, extensive and expensive investigation in the history of Ohio would include: recordings, surveillance, drones and voice recognition software. (we already know the GPS tracker was a bust.) I have
voice activation ID on special financial accounts....so why not the same principal/technology used to identify the voices of people speaking in a room?
 
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RAISINISBACK.... I just kept wondering why others were using the term confidential informant, ( have to admit I did, too.) So thought I would listen closer and viola.... the prosecutor actually said "confidential resource, uh source." (I got the feeling she changed her wording quickly from "resource" to "source" because she did not want to give too much info away?? Anybody else notice?)
That is a game changer for me.... it only makes sense that the most comprehensive, extensive and expensive investigation in the history of Ohio would include: recordings, surveillance, drones and voice recognition software. (we already know the GPS tracker was a bust.) I have
voice activation ID on special financial accounts....so why not the same principal/technology used to identify the voices of people speaking in a room?
JMO but the investigators may have placed listening devices when they “raided” the Wagner’s farm in August, 2018.
 
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