OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #36 *Arrests*

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RAISINISBACK

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I think the Wagners was afraid to do it legally when HR was alive, going to court to get custody would had exposed the underage sex before now. If HR just sign her over to them, then it wouldn't had been a big legal issue. I also, think Jake may have been satisfy with the way they did a week on and a week off, but Angela wanted SW to raise because she didn't have any girls of her own.... I think the custody issue was more Angela than anyone else. IMO

I don't think that at all. I don't think it was AW. I think it was Jake all the way. Taking SW was a way to hurt HR for dumping him and having another man's child. No different than thousands of other partners in a relationship that use the kids to get back at the one who left.

When she wouldn't sign over her rights, and her dad wouldn't let him beat her into submission, he just killed her whole family. Just like many, many other domestic violence crimes where the partner kills the spouse and kids and sometimes parents and extended family of the other partner.

JMO
 
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RAISINISBACK

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I don't think that they ever went to public school. Have you noticed that no one has come out and said anything about knowing them, like "I knew the W boys! JW was a quiet kid. Kept to himself... His brother, G3, liked to fry ants under a magnifying glass.", for example. Where are those people that usually come out of the woodwork?

IDK but there were a lot of people around there too afraid to talk about them. For 2 1/2 years.

JMO
 

Normrock

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Alright, the next big day is George “Billy” Wagner who has a hearing set for December 4, at 1:30 p.m. We will apparently get to see the big time hot shot lawyer that was hired for first time. By whom? Do y'all think defense or prosecution will ask for change of venue? Will Billy act like a big dumb doofus to portray his lawyer assessment of case ( before gag order?) Will we learn during trial (if there is one) on how W family derived Billy from George? Do you think one of the Ws will fall on sword to save rest of family? Will the State of Ohio go through with DP case if Ws try to plead out? After reading redacted autopsy report on how the Rhodan's and Ms. Gilley were murdered and IF this family did it, do you have any compassion or sympathy for them? One other thing IF this family did this imagine waking up with this standing over you.
 

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Betty P

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Myland: your land, your business. You decide what you do with it and how you conduct your business on it, BUT you don't get to decide others' perceptions of it and that is where the article (and I suspect many more to come) provide MUCH value to the case. Character provides context in court, no question about it. But even more than that, its already been said that many people fear the W's (and that starts with FW, hence the title of matriarch) and that they are on some pedestal of wealth and power in the area. But coupled with the indictments by the GJ, these stories that bring their character to the forefront help to eliminate that hold they have over people, and is very likely to strengthen the case because once people no longer fear them they are more willing to speak up about little details they may know, what they may have seen, etc.

I strongly agree with this, taximama24. These stories reveal the character of the killers and their standing in the community. It speaks to a certain amount of entitlement and hubris that could have made them feel they would be immune to punishment, that their power would prevent LE from investigating them. It probably also reveals a lot about their attitude towards those who they felt were "lesser" than their family, that Rhodens, Manleys and Gilleys should be punished or kept in line if they dared go against the wishes of those who felt they were higher in the local power structure.

All the Wagners' history and the factors influencing these crimes needs to be examined and discussed. It's probably a healthy thing for the local community to vent their own frustration and reassert their own rights. Maybe the local leaders can reassess how they might be allowing favored citizens to intimidate others and create a dysfunctional system.
 

Betty P

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IDK but there were a lot of people around there too afraid to talk about them. For 2 1/2 years.

JMO

Possibly true. Some locals who have been interviewed in the news media have expressed shock that the Wagners massacred this family, as if their status precluded that kind of behavior. Others seemed not as surprised, but not willing to discuss it further. They sound like the kind of family that people usually didn't criticize publicly, JMO.

I always think back to Leonard Manley's comment that LE won't do anything about it, like they've been doing for years.

Global News

ETA: The link above has the extended video interview with LM, when he talks about Pike County "covering things up for years".
 
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Myland

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Myland: your land, your business. You decide what you do with it and how you conduct your business on it, BUT you don't get to decide others' perceptions of it and that is where the article (and I suspect many more to come) provide MUCH value to the case. Character provides context in court, no question about it. But even more than that, its already been said that many people fear the W's (and that starts with FW, hence the title of matriarch) and that they are on some pedestal of wealth and power in the area. But coupled with the indictments by the GJ, these stories that bring their character to the forefront help to eliminate that hold they have over people, and is very likely to strengthen the case because once people no longer fear them they are more willing to speak up about little details they may know, what they may have seen, etc.
You are correct it’s just my opinion and I never sold on land contract but did buy on one and paid in full with deed in hand (not to them if you are wondering). And they may be guilty of murder and they may not, I don’t know yet in my opinion. But this will not play into my own feeling of guilt or not. jmo
 

Dudly

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You know, I remember this, from the very beginning. I think I've read or seen one of the Ws mention it,but I can't lay my hands on it right now. So, I, personally, do not.

I'll try to find a link. Anyone else have one?

It would be interesting to know that they were home schooled but BWIII was said to only have a 7th grade education...
 

pepper 34

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No offense but banks, credit card companies, any business that tacks on late fees to people who can't even afford the original payment. It's a cruel world when you're poor.

This is true. I had a scam played on me by a famous bank you'd all recognize if I named it here. Long story short, my mortgage payments literally doubled one year due to the bank playing with the monthly tax and insurance payments. I was one of the "chosen" because my mortgage was not upside down... a profit for the bank was ripe for the picking. This is in 2009 and we all know what the real estate market was doing at that time.
My son had inherited money due to the death of his father and he pitched in and paid off the entire mortgage... and so I signed the house over to him. We only felt cheated because we couldn't see the faces of the a-holes that thought the house would be theirs in about 4 months. The bank? They finally got caught and held to account for all the people they succeeded in cheating this way.
But, that's part of the point... "see the faces." Banks, credit card companies, etc. don't see the faces of the people they hurt. I have a theory that a good number of business people who work in such places are "successful sociopaths." Jmo... or, at least they've trained themselves to shut down emotions and deal strictly with numbers. They never see anyone... don't know who anyone is and shuffle papers and numbers all day long.
But, when you're dealing with people... real people... you see their faces and hear them talking. I expect the terms to be more human in that case.
If I rented to an elderly man who was surprised he owed interest when he thought he was done paying the property off, I'd give him a break. Give him 4 months forgiveness and take $25 a month until the interest was paid; if I were rich as FW is. Be a human being and not a machine. I can see his face and hear him... he's a person. Let him live on his little piece of land in his trailer. $25 a month isn't going to break or make anyone! Instead it had to go to court... geesh. Really??
And I once rented a small house 10 hours from here so I'm not just all talk here. I lowered the rent 3 times during the "crash" and it hurt me... not the tenants and they ended up trashing the place anyway. I mean seriously trashed. But, I cleaned and fixed everything and I can sleep at night... knowing they probably never lost a night's sleep either. That's on them. I have to know I did what I thought was the right thing. We only live once. If my efforts are abused... as I said, that's on them.
 

Julia966

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It'll be interesting to see if any of this is raised in the trials. Me, I'm perfectly comfortable judging her/them on activities that I feel are questionable even if, strictly speaking, they are legal. But unless they can be tied to the murders or other crimes were committed, we may not hear about any of these family businesses.
 

Myland

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Alright, the next big day is George “Billy” Wagner who has a hearing set for December 4, at 1:30 p.m. We will apparently get to see the big time hot shot lawyer that was hired for first time. By whom? Do y'all think defense or prosecution will ask for change of venue? Will Billy act like a big dumb doofus to portray his lawyer assessment of case ( before gag order?) Will we learn during trial (if there is one) on how W family derived Billy from George? Do you think one of the Ws will fall on sword to save rest of family? Will the State of Ohio go through with DP case if Ws try to plead out? After reading redacted autopsy report on how the Rhodan's and Ms. Gilley were murdered and IF this family did it, do you have any compassion or sympathy for them? One other thing IF this family did this imagine waking up with this standing over you.
JMo but I think it will be moved. And that really isn’t an act on Billy’s part many people over the years have talked about how dumb (sorry not a nice word) the men and sister is. If they did it I will have no compassion for them at all. But I really do appreciate your use of the word IF. Thats how I like to state it until proven guilty. Jmo
 

IQuestion

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I strongly agree with this, taximama24. These stories reveal the character of the killers and their standing in the community. It speaks to a certain amount of entitlement and hubris that could have made them feel they would be immune to punishment, that their power would prevent LE from investigating them. It probably also reveals a lot about their attitude towards those who they felt were "lesser" than their family, that Rhodens, Manleys and Gilleys should be punished or kept in line if they dared go against the wishes of those who felt they were higher in the local power structure.

All the Wagners' history and the factors influencing these crimes needs to be examined and discussed. It's probably a healthy thing for the local community to vent their own frustration and reassert their own rights. Maybe the local leaders can reassess how they might be allowing favored citizens to intimidate others and create a dysfunctional system.
Excuse "my passionate side" for coming out as "persistent, relentless. purposeful and dogged" arguments on some issues... thank you for understanding.
Yes, pictures of W's are missing.... Yearbook photos? Organized sports photos...ie Little League?, Flag Football?, heck I'm willing to look at Bowling Team Photos. No more farm video running in a circle with a pony and the song/instumental playing in the background! (They have ruined that instrumental forever by using it in their advertising. IMO.) Thinking about the "ongoing enterprise" and "collection of debt" described in the indictments, juxtaposed to the sweet reason the song was originally written...what a horrible mockery.
 
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almond

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This feels different to me. Tricky contracts, balloon payments people are somehow unaware of, confiscation of people's homes. Against her own neighbors who she knows can do nothing about it. Even a bank has to take lengthy steps to foreclose, ones that it looks like FW didn't take. But, obviously, it's JMO. Perhaps she's nothing more than a great businesswoman.
She's seems, to me too, to be a greedy, heartless, self serving witch. I would not do business with her, ever.
 

pepper 34

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If I rented to an elderly man who was surprised he owed interest when he thought he was done paying the property off, I'd give him a break. Give him 4 months forgiveness and take $25 a month until the interest was paid; if I were rich as FW is. Be a human being and not a machine. I can see his face and hear him... he's a person. Let him live on his little piece of land in his trailer. $25 a month isn't going to break or make anyone! Instead it had to go to court... geesh. Really??

I'm quoting myself here... This elderly man was a veteran and was illiterate. I changed my mind. I'd let the interest go and would probably be bringing him hot meals now and again. And I don't own a church or teach Sunday school but I remember how Scrooge's house got ransacked by the towns people during his nightmare of being deceased in "A Christmas Carol."
Past and present and future. Scrooge was so lucky he saw it all before his real death.

This one's for you, IQuestion.
(Put another tune with meaningful
lyrics into your head.)

"Hell, I guess I did it to myself...
Usually this place is as quiet as a mouse,
but lately I've been wondering if I'm living
in a haunted house.
Those ghosts are never very far.. I can hear
kids playing in the yard. I can smell her sweet
perfume flowing down the hall.
But it's me, the memories,
and the pictures on the wall."
 
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IQuestion

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She's seems, to me too, to be a greedy, heartless, self serving witch. I would not do business with her, ever.
LOL ALMONDjoy!! bbm C'mon, "ever" is a long time. Don't you think at sometime in our lives we might need a miniature pig imported from the jungles of Vietnam, for the nominal cost of only $1200??? (I'll just excuse myself and quietly walk out the door....)
 
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iridized

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Every single person who purchased land from her had the option to hire an attorney to look at the contact before signing. You can not legislate common sense. If they were not aware of the balloon payment at the end of the contract then they did not read the contract. Balloon payments are common, albeit usually in high dollar contracts, but I can see why they we would be useful in these low end properties. It gives the borrower time to get their credit up to standards so that they would be then eligible for a traditional loan. And according to the article, the payments were minuscule to begin with. If you can't pay$250,$400 a month, you really have no business owning anything. I wonder what the average rental property in that area is.
 

Bootsctr

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Possibly true. Some locals who have been interviewed in the news media have expressed shock that the Wagners massacred this family, as if their status precluded that kind of behavior. Others seemed not as surprised, but not willing to discuss it further. They sound like the kind of family that people usually didn't criticize publicly, JMO.

I always think back to Leonard Manley's comment that LE won't do anything about it, like they've been doing for years.

Global News

ETA: The link above has the extended video interview with LM, when he talks about Pike County "covering things up for years".

Thank you for posting this again Betty P. It is a very raw and emotional interview by Leonard. I can't help but wonder if the M's were ever in the cross-hairs by the Wagners. Did the Wagners think the Manleys wouldn't tell what they knew about the contentious custody battle for fear of their lives? Such a very sad case indeed.
 

Jonas_Klein

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Excuse "my passionate side" for coming out as "persistent, relentless. purposeful and dogged" arguments on some issues... thank you for understanding.
Yes, pictures of W's are missing.... Yearbook photos? Organized sports photos...ie Little League?, Flag Football?, heck I'm willing to look at Bowling Team Photos. No more farm video running in a circle with a pony and the song/instumental playing in the background! (They have ruined that instrumental forever by using it in their advertising. IMO.) Thinking about the "ongoing enterprise" and "collection of debt" described in the indictments, juxtaposed to the sweet reason the song was originally written...what a horrible mockery.
"Collection of unlawful debt" mentioned at count 22. You might have a point. The text is so complicated, an expert opinion would be useful to understand it.

Maybe the journalists dug into this business for a reason...let's wait and see
 

iridized

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"Collection of unlawful debt" mentioned at count 22. You might have a point. The text is so complicated, an expert opinion would be useful to understand it.

Maybe the journalists dug into this business for a reason...let's wait and see
My opinion of the collection of unlawful debt would be the loaning of money to the Rhoden's for the initial costs incurred in the equipment needed for the growing of cannabis which was then not repaid.
 
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