GUILTY OH - Sarah Widmer, 24, drowned in bathtub, Hamilton Township, 11 Aug 2008

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by curves, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. curves

    curves New Member

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  3. LaLaw2000

    LaLaw2000 Louisiana

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    What a story. I am not sure what to think about this one. I would like to know what caused the bruising at the back of Sarah's neck.

    RIP, Sarah.
     
  4. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    After reading the link, I do think that the jury came to the correct decision.

    Who knows what goes on behind closed doors, what goes on in a person's mind. Just because a person "thinks" they know another person does not always mean that they can read a person's mind and and know the real person behind the "mask" that they allow the public to see.
     
  5. curves

    curves New Member

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    Just found this - the Prosecution asserts that Ryan Widmer was looking at sites which are used for adults looking for swinging partners, however the defense says there is no proof of him paying the joining fee which means that all he did was look at the front page of the sites which showed pictures of scantily clad women - not a crime one would have to admit.

    http://www.allbusiness.com/crime-la...ions/criminal-offenses-crimes/12430038-1.html

    If they could prove he was actively looking for someone to play around with it would change my perception of the case. As they can't, I think I would have to disregard it.
     
  6. ScorpRising

    ScorpRising To thine ownself be true

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    They may have been living the lifestyle as a couple... Just thought I'd share as that wouldn't make me change my perception of the case...
     
  7. ScorpRising

    ScorpRising To thine ownself be true

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    Moving on to the original question... What is my opinion?

    Too much reasonable doubt to convict. Glad he's getting a new trial.

    It's possible he did it as someone isn't always the person they portray in public, even to their closest friends...

    It's also possible that it was an accidental drowning. I personally know of someone who had a seizure in drown in a mud puddle while at work :(
     
  8. curves

    curves New Member

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    Yes,that's true although the way the article was written it didn't come accross to me that way?
     
  9. ScorpRising

    ScorpRising To thine ownself be true

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    ITA! It didn't come across that way to me either. Just food for thought (I like to play devils advocate). It's always a possiblility and even their closest friends wouldn't know about that part of their lives.

    ETA: Which could lead to this possibility... maybe she fell for someone they were playing with and he went into a blind rage and did kill her.
     
  10. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    There are just too many unexplained "questions" that Ryan has been unable to answer.

    Why Sarah's hair was wet, but the bathtub was dry, the rug was dry, no wet towels and her body was dry.

    Why was she bleeding from her vaginal area.

    All of the cuts and bruises on her body.

    Why if he contends his wife "often" fell asleep in the bath, was he not beside her, if he knew she was not safe.

    Unless a person has a medical condition, or otherwise "impaired" how could anyone fall asleep and not wake up when you aspirate water.

    The evidence contradicts the "story" of the husband. Also, the 911 call was meant to "provide" details that would attempt to cover up the "crime".

    This just does not seem to add up.
     
  11. curves

    curves New Member

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    I agree about the bath tub area being dry - this was the biggest red flag for me. Also, the dateline story doesn't say either way but I would expect that Ryan would be soaking wet aswell from pulling Sarah out of the bath tub. That right there should surely prove the story either way. I must have missed the bleeding part though?

    Playing devils advocate, the biggest reason I could not convict Ryan is lack of motive. There was seemingly no reason for him to kill Sarah and although the evidence doesn't seem to point to a bath tub drowning it doesn't seem to point to a murder either. They had someone (a coroner I think) on the stand who said that the bruising on Sarah's scalp and neck would be expected after the paramedics had been working on her for 45 minutes, and that was the only sign of a violent struggle.
     
  12. 2goldfish

    2goldfish Active Member

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    I dont get this - in the sense that what healthy adult would not wake up as soon as water went in their nose? I do know some people sleep really hard but no one sleeps that hard that fast....so to me there is no way this was an accident?
     
  13. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    Have you ever by accident aspirated water while awake, say while swimming. Remember how you felt.

    Then "someone" wants me to believe that a person who is healthy, can then fall asleep breathing air and then "breathe" water and NOT wake up.

    Beyond common sense.....BTW, just because there is no "obvious" motive to "laypersons" does not mean that Ryan has his own motive in his own mind. A person can speculate, but only Ryan knows his "true" motives.

    Could be any reason.....remember Ryan went to great lengths to ensure that everyone "thought" it was natural...........
     
  14. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

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    I watched the media coverage of this during the trial and I couldn't make up my mind. I swear if I had been on the jury I don't think I could have gotten beyond "reasonable doubt".

    Friends and family testified during the trial that Sarah fell asleep very easily and deeply and at odd times. I wonder if she wasn't an undiagnosed case of narcolepsy.
    http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/guide/narcolepsy

    I was very surprised that the defense didn't bring this up at trial.
     
  15. curves

    curves New Member

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    I agree but...if it was that clear cut surely so many people wouldn't wither be on the face or think he was innocent and surely there wouldn't be a second trial?
     
  16. butwhatif?

    butwhatif? New Member

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    BBM-
    ITA! If it's true that he was surfing adult sites (the family deny this and claim that they have IT pros who can prove they were just pop-ups), then there is the possibility that his wife was not pro porn, and they argued about it, leading to a sudden violent outburst.

    Although many men and women are pro porn and like to indulge- not everyone is. Just google porn addiction and you will see what I mean. Apparently its one of the leading causes of divorce now. And most of the wives live in shame and secrecy, not sharing their pain with even their closest loved ones becuase they will likely be told "boys will be boys- what's the big deal?". Or because they dont want to admit that their 'perfect' husband is so weak that he cannot resist giving into temptation.

    And IIRC there has been a case where the husband murdered his wife because he didnt want his secret addiction revealed.

    Back to this case: Apparently the prosecution could not present this evidence at trial because the files had been deleted and they couldn't prove that his wife had seen them. But then I have to ask why they were deleted at all?
    Most porn addicts cover their tracks by deleting the files. Why delete something if it was just a pop-up?
    Having said that, I don't believe there was enough evidence to support a guilty verdict at the first trial.
    Also it has come out that when the autopsy was performed, they did not complete all possible testing for rare diseases because of the huge cost involved. His supporters are outraged at this, but then why didnt thier own expert perform these tests?
    The only thing worse than an innocent man sitting behind bars is a guilty man walking free.
    It will be interesting to see what comes out at the new trial.
    JMO.
    ETA: just wanted to add that I still have no idea of this mans guilt or innocence. There is very little evidence, but my 'hinky meter' went off as soon as I read the 911 transcript. On a different thread another WS'er posted the following link about 911 calls and how they are assessed for clues as to the callers guilt or innocence.

    http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm
     
  17. curves

    curves New Member

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    Butwhatif, thanks so much for that link. I have found a tape of the 911 call on this website http://freeryanwidmer.com/index.php/did-you-know

    On the basis of the FBI report you linked and the 911 call he made, he is guilty. It is suspicious that he doesn't ask for help once, just tells them what has happened. I imagine I would be frantic had I found my husband in the bath and not breathing.

    Also, on the page of the above site which I have linked it gives facts which in theory point to Ryan's innocence. Most are pretty weak imo.
     
  18. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    I read the great article about 911 calls by the FBI and it was very interesting, thank you very much.

    So lets look at the 911 call , if anyone has the full transcript, I could take it apart.

    911 call:Dispatcher: 911, what's your emergency?

    Ryan Widmer: my wife...she fell asleep in the bathtub, I think. I was downstairs, I just came up here and she was laying face down in the bathtub.

    So what was the call about. He phoned 911 and then told the "emergency" operator that his wife fell asleep in the bathtub, and "he "thinks" he was down stairs. I just came up here and she was laying face down in the tub.

    Now a "non guilty person" would say: Help. Not give a description of the events. The question asked was "what is your emergency"


    So it would go something like this: Help, I need an ambulance, I found my wife in the tub face down. Help, send an ambulance, the paramedics, I need help now for my wife.

    Because after all the question was not: What happened to your wife, where were you. It was what is your emergency..........

    This is what the prosecution pointed out in summation:

    Vieux asks the jury what’s the most important thing you would want to tell 9-1-1 if your spouse is in distress. He answers by saying that the person on the phone would request for help.

    Vieux tells the jury that Ryan’s first words were my wife fell asleep in the bathtub.


    Another fact that came to mind during the 911 call is blaming the victim. As in "she falls asleep" in the bathtub all the time.

    Well if that was true, why was it important to mention that in a 911 call for emergency.

    So does he request help for the victim. NO. Does he offer extraneous information. YES. Does he blame the victim. YES.

    Does he "accept" that the victim is dead. YES. Another factor in guilt.

    All those fall into the "guilty" column.

    A person who is not guilty of the crime when reporting it, does "accept" and denies that "their loved one is dead".

    He is guilty, I am convinced of that........

    BTW, how would he know that his wife has fallen asleep in the tub and if so, would she not have died the first time that this happened.

    People just don't fall asleep in the tub and breathe water without waking up.

    Also, the first thing that I would do if I found myself in this situation, is to take the person out of the water and immediately start CPR and then call 911 while I was trying to save the person's life. I don't have to be guided by a 911 dispatcher when a person was found "lying" face down in tub.

    BTW, how does one fall asleep face down in the tub. Why would a person take a "relaxing bath" face down. This case does not make sense.

    Ryan killed his wife.......by holding her head under water until she was dead, then fabricating the "death" scene.
     
  19. 2goldfish

    2goldfish Active Member

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    I have thought of this a few times since I read about it and what really REALLY stinks for me, and I have to sayconvinces me of his guilt, is that he LEFT HER IN THE TUB.

    you can make one excuse after another for him and casey anthony and the ramseys and amanda knox but really, people act like people and when they act like guilty ones instead of innocent ones, well....

    wouldnt you go in and find your loved one underwater and get them OUT? and not be able to accept it could be too late? noooo, this guy leaves her there and bops to the phone to say "OMG HAI I THINK WIFE FELL ASLEEP IN TUB LOL"? (uh, I am paraphrasing there)

    but really I have pictured it over and over in my mind and I cant think of any human that would walk into that and then walk away. and not even counting the dry body, wet hair, dry bathroom thing. no way.
     
  20. butwhatif?

    butwhatif? New Member

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    ITA! He claims to have pulled the plug immediately to drain the water, but then there's two versions to his story about getting her out. IIRC he first told officers that he took her out of the tub prior to the 911 call, but on the 911 call he takes 29 secs to lift her body out of the now empty tub.
    This 29 secs was apparently what set off suspicion, because they didn't believe he would have been able to complete the task in that short amount of time.

    There's lots of extra details you can get from the freeryanwidmer.com site
    But keep in mind that this site is for all of his supporters, so there's alot of spin.
    JMO
     
  21. CyberLaw

    CyberLaw Former Member

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    I was wondering if anyone can find the full transcript of the 911 call, not just the audio. It is somewhat difficult to hear.

    I agree with 2goldfish that the first thing an innocent person would do is take the person out of the water. Why would the tub need to be drained if the person is not in the tub.

    He of course mentions that Sarah is dead. This again is not normal under the circumstances. An innocent person, does not accept a loved one has died. They deny it, they do not want to face reality.

    But a guilty person has no problem furnishing the fact that their loved one is dead.

    Also he mentioned to other people that he found his wife face down, then he tells other that she was face up.

    Then he says she is dead, then unconscious.

    I would tell 911 to break down the door if they have to, I am not going to stop CPR, the cost of a new door is nothing compared to attempting to save the life of my loved one.

    The first jury found him guilty, and I have no doubt that the second jury will also.

    That 911 call is very informative.....for the purpose of the DA.
     

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