GUILTY OK - Antwon Parker, 16, shot dead in OKC pharmacy robbery, 19 May 2009

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by noZme, May 30, 2009.

  1. noZme

    noZme Active Member

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    This story has been all over the place & I am suprised to be the 1st to post. When I read about this the other day, I was outraged this man has been charged with murder. It caused long & hot debate between Mr NoZ & me. Even LE & military training cannot fully prepare people for shooting other people. It is common to have no memory of how many shots were fired in high adrenaline situations..... I am not sure if the DA is covering his own rear-end by letting the court sort it out, is trying to avoid a racial problem or what.... Everything I have seen or read leads me to call "foul". Mr NoZ agrees with the "expert" who says Ersland went too far. I am anxious to know WS's opinions. Read up on the matter & jump in!

    OKLAHOMA CITY — "Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.
    Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero.
    Ersland, 57, is free on $100,000 bail, courtesy of an anonymous donor. He has won praise from the pharmacy's owner, received an outpouring of cards, letters and checks from supporters, and become the darling of conservative talk radio"....... snip http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2009/may/29/pharmacist-arrested-killing-teenager-holdup/


    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522461,00.html
     
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  3. Kat

    Kat Kind words do not cost much

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    I have no problem with Mr. Ersland shooting the one of the "holdup men" (I am inferring that the holdup men were armed) the first time when he shot him in the head and the holdup man was down on the ground.

    He took it just a bit too far when he went and got another gun and shot him five more times~ while he was down and not posing a direct threat.

    That's the part where I have to say ...Hoookay now. Too much.
     
  4. HesterMofet

    HesterMofet Member

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    I agree it was too much, but I don't know if I were on a jury if I could convict him of first degree murder. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago because back then, when you got robbed, you just got robbed. Now you never know if you give up your money, what's going to happen next? There seem to be more and more robberies that end up as kidnappings and murders because no one wants to leave witnesses.

    I don't feel bad for the kid who is dead. He gave up his life the minute he decided to pick up a gun and rob the place. The last thing I want to hear is his family screaming that he was a "good boy who made a mistake." Sorry, even if it's true, chances are the kid would go to juvy for a couple of years and be back on the street making the same "mistake" again.

    I only hope the other perp is scared straight by it.
     
  5. Otise

    Otise New Member

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    I can kind of understand the last shots...the heat of the moment & adreneline flowing like crazy...but that was crossing the line. I don't know how I would react if this happened to me. Maybe I would do the same thing or maybe my sanity would kick back in before I did. I don't think he should be charged with first degree murder.
     
  6. laura08

    laura08 New Member

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    I don't think the guy intentionally meant to kill the boy, I think his adreneline took over. It is possible Jerome seen the get away driver when chasing the boy outside and the other guy that helped set this up out there, and fired the shots thinking he would scare them if they decided to try coming back in. Or else he may have thought the boy he shot was going to get back up and over reacted. I am sure he was scared for his life. It also said he was working with 2 women, behind the counter. I don't think he should be charged with 1st degree murder, these boys came at him 1st and obviously would have shot him had he not reacted and protected hisself. It is a sad situation for the boys family losing there baby, and for Jerome a man working to make an honest living.
     
  7. Lovejac

    Lovejac These boys are my heartstrings!

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    Wow, this is the first I've heard of this. I read the articles and I'm going to give my first few thoughts.

    If you don't want to risk being shot and killed, then don't try to rob someone with a gun.

    I've never been in a situation where someone has a gun and is trying to rob me. I can only imagine that your adrenaline would be out of control, so I can understand maybe shooting more times than someone thinks you should.
     
  8. Boyz_Mum

    Boyz_Mum New Member

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    Perhaps he went too far- I just get annoyed because had he not protected himself or the pharmacy, he possibly would have been killed or he would have faced some sort of scrutiny or charges. Danged if you do, danged if you don't...
     
  9. Lovejac

    Lovejac These boys are my heartstrings!

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    Kind of like that saying, "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6"

    More than likely, his actions saved 3 lives that night.
     
  10. sadyjade

    sadyjade "I'll follow you down til the sound of my voice wi

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    I have a dear friend of many years, whose son was shot and killed last year by virtue of "home invaison". His son and two of his friends were drinking alot at a bar , celebrating his birthday. They claimed they were invited to a party, showed up at another home (that is the claim anyway) where they spun shall, hooped and hollered, broke the door down (and the frame it was in) all while the tenants were on the phone with cops and as the young man on the other side of the door told them ... "I will shoot, I am armed and have called the police!" They were on the phone to 911 as this transpired.

    Two of the three who enetered this boys home were shot, one fatally. I know both parties as well as thier families. Sad for all involved ... BUT, our local DA did the right thing and is still trying to cope with his decision. Manslaughter was not even sought after the investigation showed the true details. Sadly the young mans family caqnnot except this and continues to give a lawyer tons of money to appeal and fight. The young man who shot this boy (and wounded another) has lost his career and a part of himself he will never get back. All parties involved suffered, one with his life.

    My point in sharing all this .... I miss PJ and feel terrible for his mother annd father, however, he invaded this persons home at 3 in the morning, greeting him with threats and demonstrated that by "knocking" on the door with his foot and busting out the frame of the door.

    IMHO he did, what I would have done!!
     
  11. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Active Member

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    I agree. I don't see this man as some angry mad dog killer. No one knows what they would do in such a traumatic situation as this one. I would gather to say Mr. Ersland probably has no criminal record whatsoever in the past.

    I just don't see any OK jury sending this man to prison for a long time. I think they will try to understand his state of mind at the time all of this was transpiring.

    He had no assurances the guy wouldn't get back up.

    I am sure Mr. Ersland was in a heighten state when he saw the robber pointing the gun at the head of the clerks. He could not stand down and do nothing not knowing even if they gave them all the money they wouldn't shoot them all dead. It sure has happened before.

    imo
     
  12. Columbo

    Columbo New Member

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    The boy who was shot and killed was not the one carrying the gun. The boy with the weapon ran when the pharmacist started shooting. The one who was shot knew that his friend had a gun, for sure.

    I imagine it was a combination of fear, adrenaline, and anger that made the pharmacist shoot the boy 5 times after he was already down. That was a scary incident and the pharmacist is a hero in my opinon, given what information we have about this. Just my thoughts-- I could be wrong.

    The mother of the dead boy said "He didn't have to kill my baby like that." WELLLLL--"her baby" didn't have to participate in an armed robbery, either.
     
  13. txsvicki

    txsvicki Active Member

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    I think it's very odd to shoot the one who didn't have the gun and chase the one with a gun away. When I read teenager and the old guy shooting the teen five times with another gun as he lay on the floor, that's all I had to read. I have to agree with charges being filed. The pharmacist killed the kid and didn't have to. He'd already defended himself. Sounds like he was angry that one got away.
     
  14. Kat

    Kat Kind words do not cost much

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    I'll be interested in seeing how this one plays out.

    I live in TX, and we had a man indicted in the last year or so for shooting and killing a man coming out of his neighbors home. The man's convo was recorded on a 911 tape.

    He called and reported the men coming out of the home next door, went and got his gun and stood on his own property and then shot them over on the next property.

    IIRC he was cleared of all charges.

    I don't know the laws in OK, only TX. I wonder if he will be cleared?
     
  15. BuzzieCat

    BuzzieCat New Member

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    Sounds to me like he went too far shooting someone who was already down, BUT on the other hand I can only imagine how petrified I'd be in that situation and what I might do to protect myself. As far as the teenager that he killed not having a gun - how could he know that for sure? Everything was probably happening fast and he knew that one had a gun, so probably he probably just assumed and maybe didn't get a chance to carefully check for a gun.

    Bad neighborhood, too, and having already been robbed before could make you on edge.

    If you go in to rob a place, and one of your party has a gun, IMO you deserve what you get. Maybe the pharmacist should get some probation or something for shooting someone who was down, IDK.
     
  16. Snick1946

    Snick1946 Active Member

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    Where do the always find these moms who get in front of a camera after their 'baby' gets killed in commission of a felony? Where I live it's a constant thing, usually accompanied by wailing comments about how he was just getting his lfe together, going to bible study, etc.
    Yes I think the pharmacist went a bit too far. If I had to decide I'd allow him to plead this out to a reduced sentence and put him back on probabtion with community service. But, probably the friends of this young man will be lurking. Sad.
     
  17. Columbo

    Columbo New Member

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    He may not have chased the armed suspect away--my guess is, the kid just ran when he saw the pharmacist aiming a gun at him. I'm wondering if the kid's gun was even loaded....and he must have known the pharmacist would have had a loaded weapon. Why did he run when he could have fired? He would have had the advantage, from what it seems--ready to fire, while the pharmacist had to reach for his weapon.

    In such a terrifying situation, adrenalin is running high and you don't know if the kid who's "down" has a concealed weapon that he can still manage to draw and shoot.

    If the pharmacist was angry, he may have been furious that one got away, but it could be anger at the whole situation--- sick of the gutter rats with guns who steal from, and kill with no conscience, the hardworking people. (This is not a racist statement, gutter rats come in all colors & ethnicities.)
     
  18. ziggy

    ziggy New Member

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    I would use the "Halloween" defense.

    You see, in all those movies the guy gets killed supposedly, he's lying on the floor and then the music starts and he gets back up! He just keeps getting back up.

    Anyway, if we are to be truthful here, when your life is threatened you can have a mix of emotions and one of them can be anger. Why should you not have the right to be angry? Why should you not have the right to kill or be killed?

    Maybe he wanted to be sure the guy was dead. Works for me. I've had cops tell me better that than have the low life drag you into court and sue you for their injuries and it happens. Be honest.

    Another honest moment - how many of you have had to go through a simulation where you have to make a split decision on who to shoot and who is armed? We have no right to judge him for not realizing the teen he shot was unarmed. None. Seconds are all you have.

    I don not have a problem - if it was overkill and he went too far it is to be EXPECTED when someone has just threatened your life. They don't get a free pass. The kid was shot in the head. Are we supposed to pay for his rehabilitation and physical therapy?

    When in our country will we just be able to put race aside and state, "you kind of had it coming so quit whining"?

    I do not think he will be convicted and he should SUE the DA for dragging him through this.

    Enough is enough.
     
  19. ziggy

    ziggy New Member

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    or maybe the "he started it" defense.

    I like that one and it's true eh?
     
  20. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Active Member

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    If Mr. Horne from Tx. was found not guilty when he shot two men in the back with a shotgun, then I do think Mr. Ersland has a good chance of getting the charges greatly reduced or his jury may pull a nullification and let him off altogether.

    imo
     
  21. mysteriew

    mysteriew A diamond in process

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    Actually that is the part that I don't question. Putting myself behind the counter, if I looked up and saw two people standing there and seeing that one of them had a gun- I would probably make the following assumptions.... they had a gun, my life was in danger. I might only see one gun, but there was a strong possibility that there was another gun that I didn't see. If I had a weapon, I would use my best judgement in which one I needed to shoot in order to defend myself. I mean it isn't like the unarmed robber is going to be standing there saying "hey man, I don't mean you any harm."

    If the robber had killed the pharmacist, then got caught- both the robber with the gun and the robber who didn't have a gun would be charged with the murder. Both are assumed to be guilty. Both could receive the death penalty, even though only one had the gun (murder + armed robbery.)

    Now going back inside, getting a new weapon and shooting 5 more times, well I have a little trouble with that one. Yes his adrenaline was up, he was scared for his life and the lives of others. But he had a man down injured, he had the weapon and was now in control of the situation. Absent any threat from the downed robber, I would say the pharmacist was in the wrong. But not first degree wrong, maybe 3rd degree/ reckless homicide or something.

    BTW I haven't heard, with the first shots the pharmacist fired how badly was the unarmed robber hurt? Was he killed with the first shots or just injured? Was he likely to survive his injuries?

    I saw one article where the NAACP was giving kudos to the DA for filing against the pharmacist, so yeah I would guess there were some racial issues involved.
     

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