OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

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HoneyWest said:
I don't think the size 7 shoe print points to a woman, necessarily. I also don't believe a woman had anything to do with this. Now, could the size 7 print belong to a man? There have been several suspects talked about during the last 40 years...some have even confessed! I've never seen what their shoe sizes were.

Sonny Jack James

Ricky Green, who was 20 at the time of the murders (not to be confused with Ricky Lee Green, another murderer)

William "Bill" Stevens - confessed to the murders & had knowledge of the layout of Camp Scott - was excluded because sperm did not match sample

Dewayne Peters - spent time in prison with Bill Stevens for kidnap and rape - was also excluded because sperm did not match sample

From the Daily Oklahoman June 21, 1977 - a 40 year old w/a history of psychiatric confinement, who had once been questioned about a sex crime against a child

Karl Lee Myers - who did not do it but a convicted felon trying to make a movie says Karl confessed to him. Ironically, the convicted felon at one time also confessed to the murders.

Darren Creekmore - he ran away from Tahlequah 4th of July weekend off '77.

Steven L. Cumby - He confessed to the murders, but he was in jail in El Reno until 10:30 the day the bodies were found.

Anyone know anyone else to add?
Click to expand...

I was wondering about GLH's cousin, John Clayton Potts. He gave police information about GLH that put him in the area shortly before the murders. Two years later, he was arrested for twice raping a 13 yo girl who was another cousin of his.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...8-Michelle-Guse-9-Doris-Milner-10-1977/page27

He lived in the Locust Grove area at the time, but OSBI had cleared him as a suspect. Even after his arrest for raping his cousin, OSBI still maintained he was innocent of the Girl Scout murders. Could he have been the one who committed the murders or accompanied GLH that night? He would have been age 21 at the time.
 
 
HoneyWest said:
Oh these are new articles! Bracing myself to read...
Click to expand...

Yeah, those six chapters are the World's main 40th anniversary coverage; the two above them are, I think, sidebars. Haven't read them yet!
 
 
The Tulsa World did a fantastic job on the 6-part series. I cannot compliment them enough.
 
wfgodot said:
Here's everything all together, new articles.

Tulsa World:

40 years ago, the murders of three Girl Scouts in Oklahoma
stunned the nation, created shockwaves still being felt

Hunt for accused Girl Scout slayer consumes region while dividing a community

Girl Scout murders trial 'was like watching a movie,' victims' families remember

Girl Scout murders: Stunning verdict, surprise prison
death lead to 40 years of unanswered questions

Finding good in aftermath of Girl Scout murders complicated for survivors

Those who lived through Girl Scout murders still feel
impact 40 years after tragedy brought them together
---

Girl Scout murders: Strange 'mission to kill' note leaves a mystery, stirs conspiracies

Girl Scout murders: A look at evidence used against Gene Leroy Hart at trial
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for all those links, I am off to work now but will read them tonight.
 
Betty P said:
I was wondering about GLH's cousin, John Clayton Potts. He gave police information about GLH that put him in the area shortly before the murders. Two years later, he was arrested for twice raping a 13 yo girl who was another cousin of his.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...8-Michelle-Guse-9-Doris-Milner-10-1977/page27

He lived in the Locust Grove area at the time, but OSBI had cleared him as a suspect. Even after his arrest for raping his cousin, OSBI still maintained he was innocent of the Girl Scout murders. Could he have been the one who committed the murders or accompanied GLH that night? He would have been age 21 at the time.
Click to expand...

Oops,sorry I posted the wrong link. Here's the correct one:

http://nebula.wsimg.com/df4b28e4526...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Scroll down to the news article on page 10 of the linked PDF document.

Gene Hart Relative Arrested in Rape of Teen Cousin


Pryor, OK - A cousin of the late Gene Leroy Hart who gave investigators "valuable information" implicating Hart in the sex-slayings of three Girl Scouts two years ago has been charged with raping a 13 year old girl, authorities confirmed Thursday.

....

Jon Clayton Potts, 23, was freed from the Mayes County jail after posting $10,000 bond on the first degree rape charge, said Sheriff Pete Weaver.

...

Potts was arrested after the girl told Locust Grove police on Sunday a man entered the home where she was sleeping with three other children, forced her at knifepoint to drive with him to a backcountry road near Salina where she was raped three times. The girl also told police she was raped about three weeks before by the same man under similar circumstances.

She told police he told her she would be killed if she told authorities.
Click to expand...

The article goes on to state that Jon Clayton Potts aided the Girl Scout murders investigation by identifying mug shots of GLH and putting him at the scene of the murders within hours of when they happened.

(Modsnip)

Though her relationship hasn't been verified yet, I hope she comes back, gets verified and helps us provide some background on Jon Clayton Potts. This old article does seem to validate her comments. As near as I can tell JCP still lives in the Locust Grove area. His possible involvement might explain how GLH had assistance while hiding out in the area and may explain some of the unidentified fingerprints, footprints, etc. found at the murder scene.

I wonder if LE took any hair samples, fingerprints, etc. from him? Sending out the bat signal to VallsYerPal in hopes she comes back here and helps us out with this!
 
Reading Carla W's pre-trial testimony brought up another story that was also mentioned in the SCFTC book.

http://nebula.wsimg.com/86f8345cd1d...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Story begins on p 142 of the PDF file.

On Wed or Thurs of the counselors orientation week (the week before campers arrived), Carla W injured her back while lifting sailboats in prep for the campers. She went to the Infirmary where they gave her some Tylenol with codeine. It knocked her out for the afternoon. She got up for dinner, but decided to sleep on the floor in the staff house that night.

Later, she heard a scratching sound on the screen door of the staff house. It sounded like someone rubbing against the screen. She thought it might be a prank. She heard footsteps. She called out "who's there?". She heard more footsteps walking away. Later heard more footsteps. She got up to look out the door and saw the camp dog, Sally, come running into the yard barking and growling. Carla couldn't see what she was barking at, but grabbed her blanket and went to Quawpaw Unit nearby where there were other counselors. They went back to the staff house with her and one of them stayed the night with her there.

So, it sounds like someone might have been prowling the camp just a few days before the Girl Scouts arrived.
 
Just finished reading the articles at Tulsa World - there is a lot of great information, and maybe, something new will come to light to help establish a motive and who committed these horrifying murders.

RIP Lori, Denise and Michele you have not been forgotten. :rose:
 
Listening now to the Generation Why podcast of the murders. I read the Tulsa World Series today ... very well done. I've been having nightmares about this case, one woke me up when I heard the screaming in the woods. That has never happened to me in all my years following and investigating cases. As I said before, this case is without a doubt one of the most frightening I've ever heard of. It ranks up there with Keddie Cabin.
 
missgulfsouth said:
Listening now to the Generation Why podcast of the murders. I read the Tulsa World Series today ... very well done. I've been having nightmares about this case, one woke me up when I heard the screaming in the woods. That has never happened to me in all my years following and investigating cases. As I said before, this case is without a doubt one of the most frightening I've ever heard of. It ranks up there with Keddie Cabin.
Click to expand...

If you get a chance to read the book, it will keep you awake. I had a couple of sleepless nights while reading it. As someone who loves the outdoors and lives in a wooded area, the forest at night can turn into a scary place and your imagination runs wild. How terrible that someone used that environment - deep in woods, isolated, no lights - to commit horrific crimes against innocent children. It sounds as though the younger girls may have died in their sleep, but poor Denise Miller must have been terrified, not to mention the other girls in the area who heard and saw frightful things. No wonder many still suffer from PTSD.
 
Betty P said:
If you get a chance to read the book, it will keep you awake. I had a couple of sleepless nights while reading it. As someone who loves the outdoors and lives in a wooded area, the forest at night can turn into a scary place and your imagination runs wild. How terrible that someone used that environment - deep in woods, isolated, no lights - to commit horrific crimes against innocent children. It sounds as though the younger girls may have died in their sleep, but poor Denise Miller must have been terrified, not to mention the other girls in the area who heard and saw frightful things. No wonder many still suffer from PTSD.
Click to expand...

It breaks my heart. My youngest is Lori's age. Doris Denise begged not to go. I'm going to pass on the book if it's going to keep me up. I typically shake cases off ... most WS wouldn't last long if we didn't. I don't like a case to follow me in my daily life, and this one has. I said there were elements of this that remind me of The Strangers movie. That is the only movie that has ever kept me awake at night for months afterward.
 
missgulfsouth said:
It breaks my heart. My youngest is Lori's age. Doris Denise begged not to go. I'm going to pass on the book if it's going to keep me up. I typically shake cases off ... most WS wouldn't last long if we didn't. I don't like a case to follow me in my daily life, and this one has. I said there were elements of this that remind me of The Strangers movie. That is the only movie that has ever kept me awake at night for months afterward.
Click to expand...
It's a must-read, not altogether more graphic than the World series, but the prices are prohibitive -- $70 or more for the paperback and much pricier for a good hardback copy.
 
Betty P said:
Oops,sorry I posted the wrong link. Here's the correct one:

http://nebula.wsimg.com/df4b28e4526...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Scroll down to the news article on page 10 of the linked PDF document.

Gene Hart Relative Arrested in Rape of Teen Cousin




The article goes on to state that Jon Clayton Potts aided the Girl Scout murders investigation by identifying mug shots of GLH and putting him at the scene of the murders within hours of when they happened.

(Modsnip)

Though her relationship hasn't been verified yet, I hope she comes back, gets verified and helps us provide some background on Jon Clayton Potts. This old article does seem to validate her comments. As near as I can tell JCP still lives in the Locust Grove area. His possible involvement might explain how GLH had assistance while hiding out in the area and may explain some of the unidentified fingerprints, footprints, etc. found at the murder scene.

I wonder if LE took any hair samples, fingerprints, etc. from him? Sending out the bat signal to VallsYerPal in hopes she comes back here and helps us out with this!
Click to expand...

I've never heard of this guy, but it sounds like he played a part in LE's targeting of GLH early on. I wonder what he said? According to the article, he wasn't close to GLH, but he was still family...that's interesting. I bet they didn't take any hair samples or fingerprints from him because it sounds like he was never considered a suspect, but wouldn't they have gotten them later for his rape charge?

I looked up his name on oscn.net and found quite a few records - he applied for a marriage license in June of '77. Interesting timing there, huh? There were a couple of misdemeanor charges, a traffic charge, and a lot of small claims charges for housing, but didn't see any felonies or rape charge.
 
missgulfsouth said:
It breaks my heart. My youngest is Lori's age. Doris Denise begged not to go. I'm going to pass on the book if it's going to keep me up. I typically shake cases off ... most WS wouldn't last long if we didn't. I don't like a case to follow me in my daily life, and this one has. I said there were elements of this that remind me of The Strangers movie. That is the only movie that has ever kept me awake at night for months afterward.
Click to expand...


BBM

It sounds like Doris and Denise possibly knew something might happen - call it instinct - maybe picked up a negative vibration. I know that I have experienced situations of wanting to do something or go somewhere, then changing my mind, only to discover later on that I was glad I did. To share a real-life example: when we lived in Tucson, AZ, I had wanted to go to the bank before it closed and never got around to it. Guess what happened at the exact time I had planned on going.

Yep.

The bank was being robbed.

I remember being at home, turning white as a sheet when my husband asked me what was wrong and I had him read the local news online. Who knows what could have happened to me - outside of taking a stray bullet.

I feel so bad for Doris and Denise.

I just thought of something, I don't know if it will help or not, there were reports of some of the Girl Scouts during this trip and previous trips seeing a man wandering around camp, a man they did not know.

I wonder if any of those girls ever spent time drawing/sketching, and if the stranger was ever sketched, based on what they saw.
 
The podcast last night was well done. They believe that the girls bodies, flashlights, tape were laid on the ground, intending to take them in order to remove all evidence and trace of the girls. Something spooked them. Doris Denise's body temperature was just over 70 degrees when found, so she was the last to be killed, and not long before Carla came on the scene. So maybe around 5am they were spooked by something as they were preparing to leave. Indeed, if the bodies were going to be removed, we're dealing with more than one killer, in my opinion. I do have to wonder if Doris was going to be left, because she wasn't in a sleeping bag to be easily carried out, her body was staged for effect. Rigor Mortis had already set in with Lori and Michelle, who were probably killed inside the tent. I don't understand why they were tied up in a tight fetal position. Was it to make them easier to carry away?

I wonder how much Lori and Michelle weighed. Could one large strapping man (GLH) have carried them out singlehandedly? Did they bring a vehicle in, I wonder?

If LE believed he had help, and they said that in different interviews, why wasn't anyone else pursued, even after GLH was acquitted?

Lots of question.....
 
HoneyWest said:
I've never heard of this guy, but it sounds like he played a part in LE's targeting of GLH early on. I wonder what he said? According to the article, he wasn't close to GLH, but he was still family...that's interesting. I bet they didn't take any hair samples or fingerprints from him because it sounds like he was never considered a suspect, but wouldn't they have gotten them later for his rape charge?

I looked up his name on oscn.net and found quite a few records - he applied for a marriage license in June of '77. Interesting timing there, huh? There were a couple of misdemeanor charges, a traffic charge, and a lot of small claims charges for housing, but didn't see any felonies or rape charge.
Click to expand...

Just speculating, but the rape charges may have been dropped, possibly under pressure from family. The arrest and accusations were made, though, and they sound realistic.

Looking through the pre-trial testimony transcripts, there's no mention of testimony from Jon Clayton Potts. He wasn't called to testify. No mention of any evidence that came from him.

Perhaps there was some testimony at the trial, but there's no mention of it in the news media. But according to the article 2 years after the murders, he provided key evidence that placed GLH near the crime scene within hours of the murders.

What did JCP see and where?

Gold colored athletic shoes

In some of the pre-trial testimony, several witnesses (including camp counselors) are asked about a pair of brown or gold colored Red Wing athletic shoes (neither Dee E or Carla W saw or owned any shoes like that).


P. 183
http://nebula.wsimg.com/86f8345cd1d...ion=0&alloworigin=1#page=1&zoom=auto,612,1152

The questions from investigators sound as though they have a specific description of a pair of shoes the perp/s may have been wearing that night. I wonder if JCP told LE he saw GLH that night and gave a description of his clothing?

Will have to research it further. Anyone else recall or have any ideas about what JCP could have told LE and how he would have been with GLH that night?
 
There many aspects to mystery that i find truly disturbing. Law Enforcement and the judicial system failed those poor girls.
First and foremost Gene Leroy Hart. How does a man go to prison for kidnapping & double rape gets paroled in 2 years?? To then go on to commit more burglaries. To then get sent to prison again to then somehow escape to possibly commit more crimes???? How come it took law enforce 4 more years to recapture him. After reading about the case i have no doubt in my mind Gene Leroy Heart and another person is behind this. I find it astounding that this type crime could take place while everyone either did not hear anything or just stayed in their tents.
 
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