OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

[huxley72]

That's the interesting part. He wasn't included in pre-trial testimony, nor was he mentioned much as a witness in the case. Some have also speculated that he was the person who gave LE the tip about GLH's location, leading to his capture.

Here's a link to a copy of the news story back then. You'll need to scroll down the page through several other articles to see it

http://nebula.wsimg.com/df4b28e4526...4109980B88DCD7256&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Thanks for all the articles it is a treasure chest of infromation. I came across an article today from June 27, 1978 from the Oklahoman about counselor Nan Cook being told by an OSBI agent that the murder tent had been tampered with before LE had arrived before she was fingerprinted and hair samples taken. Which goes with my theory of one of the counselors trying to clean the tent or the blood. Also they told her a fingerprint had been retrieved on the body of one of the victims which they later on said there were none found on the victims. Also the West Memphis truck driver who was the first suspect and questioned many times. Why was he suspected fromt he start? Someone placed him near the crime or he had a connection, maybe a girlfriend? Gonna keep searching......

 

[huxley72]

Another thing that really baffles me about this case is the Civil Suit. How in the world could you rule in the favor of the Girl Scout Council with what happened? How was this something they could not prevent. With all the circumstances of the weeks preceding what happened, the fact that no lighting was in the area of the Kiowa unit, the Counselors tent was blocked by the kitchen tent and located a pretty good distance. I mean after this happened I am sure many things changed with the camp layouts which means of course they were somewhat liable for what happened. You lose your daughter and OSBI can't find the killer and a jury says they place bore no liability, the poor parents are the biggest victims of this case. Where there any attempts to settle before the civil trial commenced?

 

[kilahchris]

The part that is very troubling is the fact nobody heard anything. It is hard to imagine a person or persons bludgeoning and raping 3 children and there are no screams or cry for help? How far was Tent 8 in comparison to the other tents???

 

[wfgodot]

Sterling exegesis regarding shapeshifters, stageny and skincrawlers and the discussion of same re: GLH in 'Someone Cry for the Children.'

This is an odd region.

 

[missgulfsouth]

The part that is very troubling is the fact nobody heard anything. It is hard to imagine a person or persons bludgeoning and raping 3 children and there are no screams or cry for help? How far was Tent 8 in comparison to the other tents???

There were screams and noises. Many of the campers heard scary noises all night long. They weren't taken seriously.

 

[missgulfsouth]

Thanks I read the story the peculiar thing is he said he hardly knew him. But put him near the crime scene, something does smell.

The bottom line is there are so many gross people surrounding this case you don't know who to believe or suspect.

 

[Hatfield]

There were screams and noises. Many of the campers heard scary noises all night long. They weren't taken seriously.

I agree that some of the other girls did hear screams and tried to tell the couselors and they must have thought the girls were just scared of the night or something.

If one of the couselors had just took them seriously they may have captured the person.

Someone had shared a few links of older video news stories and I cant find it now but one them interviewed a father of a boy who was murdered and he thought maybe his son and his friends were responsible.

That father seemed very sincere and I think there may be some truth to it. I have not followed this case enough to know if that would override the other suspect who ended up near Talequa but that father sure sounded credible to me.

He said his son and his friends used that cave where evidence was found.

 

[Hatfield]

One thing I dont get is how the jury could declare not guilty if they thought he acted with someone else. He would be guilty too wouldnt he?

I hope he at least was put back in jail to serve out his original sentence he escaped jail from.

Wondering if he was hanging out with the boys that father talked about. They may have all been together.

I have to read up more about this case It is such a sad and tragic case.

One thing for sure is LE was pressured to arrest someone. I could see where they may have rushed some things.

 

[MaryG12]

I agree that some of the other girls did hear screams and tried to tell the couselors and they must have thought the girls were just scared of the night or something.

If one of the couselors had just took them seriously they may have captured the person.

Someone had shared a few links of older video news stories and I cant find it now but one them interviewed a father of a boy who was murdered and he thought maybe his son and his friends were responsible.

That father seemed very sincere and I think there may be some truth to it. I have not followed this case enough to know if that would override the other suspect who ended up near Talequa but that father sure sounded credible to me.

He said his son and his friends used that cave where evidence was found.

Do you mean the video in post #553 on pg 37 of this thread? I saw that too and found it very disturbing. I would very much hate to think any of the Boy Scouts at Camp Garland were in any way involved with this.

On another note, and I have been thinking about this the past few days, we know that GLH was very familiar with the area - did he spend any time roaming the grounds of Camp Garland? as well as Camp Scott?

I hope I am totally and completely wrong on this one:

If anyone at Camp Garland was in any way involved might that explain why things were "hushed up"?

Like I said, I hope I am wrong in saying this. But I felt it should be said. MOO

 

[missgulfsouth]

Do you mean the video in post #553 on pg 37 of this thread? I saw that too and found it very disturbing. I would very much hate to think any of the Boy Scouts at Camp Garland were in any way involved with this.

On another note, and I have been thinking about this the past few days, we know that GLH was very familiar with the area - did he spend any time roaming the grounds of Camp Garland? as well as Camp Scott?

I hope I am totally and completely wrong on this one:

If anyone at Camp Garland was in any way involved might that explain why things were "hushed up"?

Like I said, I hope I am wrong in saying this. But I felt it should be said. MOO

I don't think any boys (from Camp Garland or elsewhere) could have pulled off such a well-planned and executed, organized, complex set of rapes and murders, leaving virtually no identifiable trace behind. (Unless we count the stolen eyeglasses strewn about the camp...who does that point to?)

This was someone(s) swift and cunning with knowledge about various forms of torture. Someone VERY strong. It wasn't a frenzied, hurried crime. He (they) took time over several hours. Men from Camp Garland? Maybe .........

 

[huxley72]

I think the first part of the investigation focused on Shroff and people hired to put up the tents. I think the reason for people who were hired to put up the tents was the way the attacker knew how to get into the tents without being detected. It was a good theory but with all the chaos going on the week before then the focus was on Gene Hart. I really don't think Hart did it, because of a few things. One he had never murdered before, to hit someone til they are dead takes a special someone. To do this to three little girls takes a psycho, and this was planned and executed. It was someone who was hired to do something for the camp either that year or in the past who knew the exact layout and ages of the girls in each camp a certain pedophil. it's propably an obvious person but for some reason has been missed. Everything being left behind was on purpose to distort the investigation and it worked. To not have all the answers after this long is the worst part about this crime, the world moved on but this crime lingers. Hopefully it gets solved before we are all back here next year talking about another anniversary and thoughts about it again.

 

[margarita25]

( Awful to read about this...those poor girls and their families )

 

[kilahchris]

There were screams and noises. Many of the campers heard scary noises all night long. They weren't taken seriously.

That does not make any sense. Adult camp counselors heard screaming and did not take anything seriously? again my question is how far was tent 8 from where the adults were camping? How the killer or killers know to target that specific tent in the cover of darkness???

 

[Vedder]

That does not make any sense. Adult camp counselor heard screaming and did not take anything seriously? again my question is how far was tent 8 from there the adults were camping? How the killer or killers know to target that specific tent in the cover of darkness???

I can't imagine that they heard actual screams, frightened screams, and didn't react.

 

[Hatfield]

Do you mean the video in post #553 on pg 37 of this thread? I saw that too and found it very disturbing. I would very much hate to think any of the Boy Scouts at Camp Garland were in any way involved with this.

On another note, and I have been thinking about this the past few days, we know that GLH was very familiar with the area - did he spend any time roaming the grounds of Camp Garland? as well as Camp Scott?

I hope I am totally and completely wrong on this one:

If anyone at Camp Garland was in any way involved might that explain why things were "hushed up"?

Like I said, I hope I am wrong in saying this. But I felt it should be said. MOO

The 3rd video at bottom in post #553 on pg 37 of this thread.

Listen to the father and what he says about his own son and his son's friends. He sounds very credible to me.

 

[missgulfsouth]

That does not make any sense. Adult camp counselors heard screaming and did not take yanything seriously? again my question is how far was tent 8 from where the adults were camping? How the killer or killers know to target that specific tent in the cover of darkness???

It's true. Reported many, many times by several campers and counselors. Girls screaming was assumed to be afraid of the dark. Screams for "mommy, mommy!" was assumed to be someone homesick. Reports of strange men seen in the camp were dismissed. Reports of strange guttural groans (Gene Leroy Hart made these sounds when he raped the Tulsa women) were dismissed as some animal. Reports of strange flashlights in the woods were also ignored.

It's maddening, but it's all true.

 

[HoneyWest]

It's true. Reported many, many times by several campers and counselors. Girls screaming was assumed to be afraid of the dark. Screams for "mommy, mommy!" was assumed to be someone homesick. Reports of strange men seen in the camp were dismissed. Reports of strange guttural groans (Gene Leroy Hart made these sounds when he raped the Tulsa women) were dismissed as some animal. Reports of strange flashlights in the woods were also ignored.

It's maddening, but it's all true.

Where has it been reported that campers and the counselors heard girls screaming and ignored them? Or screaming 'Mommy, Mommy" and ignored them?

The sounds of the cicadas alone were very, very loud. Girls were scaring each other, there was laughing and screaming going on.

 

[missgulfsouth]

Where has it been reported that campers and the counselors heard girls screaming and ignored them? Or screaming 'Mommy, Mommy" and ignored them?

The sounds of the cicadas alone were very, very loud. Girls were scaring each other, there was laughing and screaming going on.

I've read and listened to many accounts of this case and those details were repeated over and over. I'd have to do a lot of digging to find all the sources again. I thought it was common knowledge here! Beginning at 2:00, Carla heard screams, went to investigate, saw a flashlight in the woods, went back to bed. Other campers heard mommy mommy and reported scary noises all night long. I'm certainly not making this up in my own imagination or "misremembering" considering I only learned of this case in the last 4 weeks. I devoured everything I could get my hands on about this case, pouring over it for hours each day to get a solid handle on it. This information is all over out there ... look.

 

[MaryG12]

I think the first part of the investigation focused on Shroff and people hired to put up the tents. I think the reason for people who were hired to put up the tents was the way the attacker knew how to get into the tents without being detected. It was a good theory but with all the chaos going on the week before then the focus was on Gene Hart. I really don't think Hart did it, because of a few things. One he had never murdered before, to hit someone til they are dead takes a special someone. To do this to three little girls takes a psycho, and this was planned and executed. It was someone who was hired to do something for the camp either that year or in the past who knew the exact layout and ages of the girls in each camp a certain pedophil. it's propably an obvious person but for some reason has been missed. Everything being left behind was on purpose to distort the investigation and it worked. To not have all the answers after this long is the worst part about this crime, the world moved on but this crime lingers. Hopefully it gets solved before we are all back here next year talking about another anniversary and thoughts about it again.

I, too, have to wonder if it was done by someone who the camp hired to help put up tents or do basic park maintenance...I mean, who was responsible for that? Was it paid labor? Or volunteer? I have not seen any mention of that anywhere. Or is that something Camp Scott's caretaker would have done? Considering how big that camp was - what, over 400 acres? That is a large piece of land for even just one man to keep in maintenance so I am sure they had help with some people coming in to do the mowing, remove dead branches from the dirt trails, etc. And, MOO, it would explain a lot of what happened before and after the murders took place (such as the note in the empty donut box, stuff being stolen, etc).

It would definitely help if it was known who was involved with that general campground maintenance I described...you never know, something could show up.

 

[missgulfsouth]

On second thought, in reference to my post above ... my sources were three reputable true crime podcasts: Generation Why, No Sleep, and True Crime Brewery, every YouTube video I could find pertaining to this case, various links and documents already provided here on WS, several websites, a variety of forums, and a thesis written by a woman who was a young Scout at Camp Scott during the murders, she includes interviews with other fellow campers from that fateful night. I did reference her in an early post. The information I gathered was VAST, but since it is not MSM articles, you may feel free to ignore or discount it. If you choose to believe there were no sounds other than loud cicadas that night, that is your right. I choose to believe the many accounts of those who were there and say otherwise ... but will say no more about it here.