OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

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Oh, for Pete's sake, you guys. I really think what you're seeing is the doll's hand jammed down into a mesh pocket across the back of the seat.
Well, shoot, OkieGranny... you know I couldn't have a "hmmm" moment when looking at the picture and then not share it with this bunch. ;)
 
Sleuthers, I need help with one more thing, please! This is the clue log showing the locations of hits by cadaver dogs up on Panola Mountain. There are coordinates given for the hits, but they are not GPS coordinates:

9bf96118-e768-4a0d-b142-3d686bb65dfa_zps83019a6e.png


And then I noticed the numbers 74, 75, 76, 77, 78 running up the side of this map. I'm guessing that if we could see the numbers running across the top, 98 and 99 would be there:

7d89ba33-fc80-4362-8224-466909fc7db3_zps11030419.jpg


My question is where do we find a better copy of this map so we can try to pinpoint the locations of the HRD hits?
 
Well, shoot, OkieGranny... you know I couldn't have a "hmmm" moment when looking at the picture and then not share it with this bunch. ;)

LOL, no hard feelings, I hope. I am sorry for sounding so exasperated but I tend to type whatever's running through my head, usually followed by lots and lots of editing before hitting the post button. And sometimes I just don't edit myself enough.

It's great that you're looking for new clues. Please continue!
 
Sleuthers, I need help with one more thing, please! This is the clue log showing the locations of hits by cadaver dogs up on Panola Mountain. There are coordinates given for the hits, but they are not GPS coordinates:

9bf96118-e768-4a0d-b142-3d686bb65dfa_zps83019a6e.png


And then I noticed the numbers 74, 75, 76, 77, 78 running up the side of this map. I'm guessing that if we could see the numbers running across the top, 98 and 99 would be there:

7d89ba33-fc80-4362-8224-466909fc7db3_zps11030419.jpg


My question is where do we find a better copy of this map so we can try to pinpoint the locations of the HRD hits?

It looks like a USGS topographic map. Someone has posted those. I'd at least start there.
 
I am pretty sure I have the map you want....I just can't locate it right now. I bought it 9 or 10 years ago from the wildlife department I think. It is basically just a book of maps broke down by county and it is broken up into numbered sections like this one is.
 
What is the dark area on that map....anyone know?

No, I don't have a clue, but I have noticed it before while looking at satellite views on Google Maps and Google Earth. It's clearly visible as a dark square a little ways to the northwest of the well site where the truck was found. I believe the area circled in the map above is the peak of the mountain rather than the location of the truck.

I'm on the USGS map site right now, but haven't found a matching map so far. If you can find that map of yours and if you have a scanner, please, please, please would you upload it for us?

ETA 2: Or you don't even need to scan the map if that's not convenient. Just tell us what numbers are above the column with the dark square and the ones to each side of it so we can get properly oriented.

ETA 1: Okay, scratch that part about the peak of the mountain. I'm comparing the map above with another topo map (not numbered, sadly) and, matching up various bumps and squiggles, it looks like the circled area is the truck location. But that would make the dark square on the map not correspond with the dark square on satellite images, so now I'm just really confused.
 
No, I don't have a clue, but I have noticed it before while looking at satellite views on Google Maps and Google Earth. It's clearly visible as a dark square a little ways to the northwest of the well site where the truck was found. I believe the area circled in the map above is the peak of the mountain rather than the location of the truck.

I'm on the USGS map site right now, but haven't found a matching map so far. If you can find that map of yours and if you have a scanner, please, please, please would you upload it for us?

ETA: Okay, scratch that part about the peak of the mountain. I'm comparing the map above with another topo map (not numbered, sadly) and, matching up various bumps and squiggles, it looks like the circled area is the truck location. But that would make the dark square on the map not correspond with the dark square on satellite images, so now I'm just really confused.

I am under the impression those hits happened at the first location the Jamisons visited and this map is of the second.?? unsure.
The date of the hits is Dec 12 09 the same day as Bobby Sr's service.
 
The darkened square on the map might be the aerial search area-its usually a square pattern

Anyone know if those cell phones were pinging off the same tower the whole time
 
OkieGranny I'm totally impressed at the amount of work you did just today w/ all that topix/googling. Not for the faint at sluething heart.
I'm not sure I want to even start delving into topixland.
 
OkieGranny I'm totally impressed at the amount of work you did just today w/ all that topix/googling. Not for the faint at sluething heart.
I'm not sure I want to even start delving into topixland.

Oh, my gaah, some of those people on Topix are just... frightening. Seriously.

Thank you for the kind words, but I didn't do all of that work today. Mostly it was some odds and ends collected over the past week or so that I wanted to discuss with you guys at some point. Just threw it all out there today to keep the conversation rolling.
 
**In my having spent the morning reading the 11 previous threads I find the below point to be a critical factor** jmo, tho.

Originally Posted by Haunts4Hope
**c/p by me from Thread#11**

If their vehicle had been found up on the plateau I would think they walked away and got lost. But because their footprints lead away from the car to where they took the photo and then back to the car, it seemed they were leaving. The vehicle was on it's way down the hill.... __________________
^^^THIS^^^ is of huge importance, IMO!!!.. and is so often not mentioned, not known by some, and/or disregarded...

IMO, it is absolutely a critical piece to this puzzle.. While I know that some may totally disagree with me on the importance of this particular fact, but I will even go back to one of the original investigators and just say that this critical fact was of such weight that IMO, it took Israel Beauchamp from his stance on this being a family just lost in the terrain..or even possibly a murder-suicide.. to his making the repeated firm statements that he full well believed this family was absolutely en route back down the mountain when they were likely blocked/stopped by an oncoming vehicle up the one-way mountain road that they were headed down..

And that this family was forced from their vehicle unexpectedly.. From there its truly anyone's guess on the events that followed.. But IMO, this above noted critical FACT regarding the position of their vehicle IS OF GREAT IMPORTANCE when looking at the case and how the events unfolded that day, Oct 9, 2009, halfway down the mountain, on a one-lane dirt road, where this family of 3 were seemingly just "vanished" from existing on this earth..

IMO, there are many very significant indicators that again, for whatever reasons, are often not mentioned, not known, and/or just totally disregarded, that IMO, absolutely indicate this family was finished with their business on Panola Mountain and were in fact, en route, back down the mountain when someone blocked/stopped them during their drive back down the mountainside..(**to be clear it's MOO on the importance and meaning of these known facts)

We know for a fact that the family had parked and walked several hundred yards back onto the mountainous terrain to the ridge where the famous last picture of Madyson was taken.. IMO this further confirms, for me, that when they were out walking around in/around different areas of Panola Mountain that they did take such items as cell phones.. The last picture of Madyson was taken on a cell phone..

Imo, in just going with the left the vehicle intentionally, even though the way in which the vehicle is left abandoned indicates they were headed down the mountain and unexpectedly stopped/blocked on that route, nonetheless in just going with the scenario that they intentionally parked the vehicle there and then left willingly, with the intent to walk into the terrain/forest, why then is absolutely everything left in the vehicle??

When we know for a fact that when walking the terrain previously they had taken items such as their cells??.. Instead their cell phones are left in the vehicle, with one already plugged up into the charger...???... IMO, when I'm objectively looking at the little known facts of the case re: the events of that day, IMO the indicators point toward this family leaving the mountain and were stopped/blocked unexpectedly by someone that totally changed the entire course of the rest of their lives...(**I reiterate this is MOO on the importance and meaning of certain facts)

I go back to IB and his seemingly have been very much believing a murder/suicide as possibly being at play.. But due to the fact that there are such clear, undeniable facts about such critical pieces of the puzzle that strongly indicate that the family was en route back down the mountain when they were unexpectedly stopped/blocked by someone... These critical facts even had IB repeatedly, publicly stating that due to such very strong facts indicating the family was leaving..that he firmly believed they were met by someone coming up that one lane road that forced this family from their vehicle..

Imo , I do not deny the mental health issues that are absolutely present in this case as well.. But even given mental health issues at play(that IB knew far more about than any of us, here).. He still believed that the family absolutely met with foul play on their way back down the mountain and from there, were forced from their vehicle..

Jmo. But IMO, those above critical pieces to the puzzle just cannot be easily disregarded!
 
I am under the impression those hits happened at the first location the Jamisons visited and this map is of the second.?? unsure.
The date of the hits is Dec 12 09 the same day as Bobby Sr's service.

I remember they hit on the water tank, because it was drained to check for remains. But the tank is gone now and I don't know where exactly it was. Hold on, let me look back at the transcripts...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10010218&postcount=807.

HH: There were dogs that we brought up to the scene, both cadaver dogs and air-scent dogs, trying to locate the Jamison family.

SIB: We used some articles from the vehicle to let the dogs take a sniff of it, try to get familiar with their scent.

NAR: The dogs start at the truck and fan outward through the surrounding terrain.

HH: They were very interested at the top of the mountain as well as around the truck. They didn't really want to leave that area.

NAR: Although acres of woods surround the open area at the top of Panola Mountain, the dogs don't venture off the plateau. They alert on a nearby water tank, signaling investigators to the possible presence of human remains.

And here's Oriah from the old threads:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5878338&postcount=552.

I have copies of all of the SAR efforts taken during the initial search, the Dec search, as well as the several other minor searches.

<snip>

IMO (in reviewing records) there is very little clarity as to how the dogs used were trained, maintained, etc.... AND what they were scented on to begin with- and how the scent article(s) were obtained. This is KEY in using SAR dogs in a missing persons case. In addition to that, IMO as well- the gridded SAR areas are not comprehensive in any way at all, and the SAR teams struggled to clear any area with good clarity due to a number of different reasons.

There are notations of dogs getting HRD hits. But no evidence recovered from said hits which renders that info useless.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6243240&postcount=367.

Soul, I don't really have a clue about the clue log, lol. I believe most of those 'hits' are in the vicinity of the water tower- although there is another page of them as well, where I believe they were searching another area.

The thing is- if those are true HRD hits from HRD dogs....then what was recovered as evidence from those locations?

So now you know as much as I do. I wonder, if blood was spilled but no body was left at a particular location, would HRD dogs coming along two or three weeks later hit on that decayed blood? Or do they only hit on the more complex scent of a decomposing body?
 
The darkened square on the map might be the aerial search area-its usually a square pattern

Anyone know if those cell phones were pinging off the same tower the whole time

It sounds like nobody knows anything about the Jamisons' pings:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5300718&postcount=482.

We have the cell phone records but not pings. I think to "ping" a phone the company has to triangulate the signal, so it would have had to been done back in October. I also think that the route they took is pretty well mapped out by the GPS on their phone, and credit card charges made for gas and munchies.
 
I appreciate your expertise, and I don't argue the statistics, however that 15-20% is the % who end their OWN life. What percentage also kill their own child and husband. Also the gun, yes, is still missing but we do not know she had that gun with her that day.
Also I find it unlikely, if it was murder suicide, that they would not have been found (if they have been found) until now

Here ya go. Sorry. The statistics are effin scary.
Major Mental Disorders were associated with an increased likelihood of homicide (two-fold in men and six-fold in women) when compared to the general population.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20004282
 
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