OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

[nevereverever]

Not spot-on to the question at hand, but still kinda interesting -- bold italic emphasis is mine:



http://www.slate.com/articles/news_..._death_how_do_police_rule_out_foul_play_.html

Interesting. It could be that in this case, LE is using it in that vague way just to say they don't think anyone else was involved. It isn't a precise legal term. And interesting that they don't use it among themselves. I guess the bottom line is, based on the news item that says LE doesn't suspect foul play, we don't know if that means they think it was natural, accident, or murder-suicide at this point.

Murder-suicide was always my leading theory in this case, mostly because of her gun being missing, and the money still being there. But, hopefully, the investigation can provide a definitive answer one way or the other.

 

[nevereverever]

This does make me wonder, though -- suppose someone makes a murder-suicide attempt -- and the murder part succeeds but the suicide part, while causing grievous injury, fails. I wonder if LE would then characterize the murder as foul play?

A little off-topic, sorry, but my mind went there.

Well, the person would be prosecuted, I can tell you that. Whether they call it "foul play" in the press, I don't know.

 

[mtrooper]

As far as mental health goes, I am not sure how pertinent it is but they had not missed an appointment with the psychologist up until the 9th.

 

[BunnyHop]

Is it known weather the family received a settlement from the car accident? And/or back pay from disability?

IDK, I worked all my life and can't afford anything but roof overhead, old car, simple food. Maybe I should apply for disability. sarcasm. :banghead:

 

[alreetlike]

Another fascinating case to read up on, between this and the McStays it certainly isn't dull around here lately.

 

[nursebeeme]

The medical examiner's office says it could be days or even years before they are able to identify the remains.

"The ME's office, with the forensic technology that we have now-a-days, we still feel like there's a good chance that we can get a DNA profile from those remains."

With identification will hopefully come a cause of death. Death being something the Jamison family has always feared.

OSBI says it will be getting DNA samples from members of the Jamison family to they can compare that to DNA found in the remains. It is also looking into other missing persons cases.

http://www.okcfox.com/story/23993567/osbi-investigating-three-bodies-discovered-in-pittsburg-county

 

[wfgodot]

From today's Oklahoman:

Anthropologist to examine Latimer County skeletal remains

The Latimer County sheriff's office did not release an incident report detailing the agency's involvement in the discovery of the bodies. Sheriff Jesse James said the report was incomplete Monday afternoon.

And from today's Muskogee Phoenix:

Remains may be of Eufaula family

“The area where the human remains were found is a very rugged, mountainous region, making search efforts more difficult,” an OSBI media release states. “No evidence at the scene aided in the identification of the remains, which were turned over to the State Medical Examiner’s Office.”

And today's McAlester News-Capital:

Human skeletons found: speculation is remains are those of missing Eufaula family

“We located some remains and some other items,” Sheriff Jesse James said Monday. James declined to specify exactly what else had been found at the scene, but he did say he believes those items will help with the investigation.
---
“As of right now, the cause of death has not been determined,” James said.

more at the links

 

[wfgodot]

p.s. Thanks to everyone posting here. It's really gratifying to see. Thread #10 lasted over two years till it reached its mythic thousandth post. Things were slow for a very long time, though for those who have read the case from the start, interest never waned. And then finally the news, and then - thanks, again, to everyone.

Finally, the story's been published widely - I've seen press accounts this morning in New York Daily News, the Chicago Tribune, the Toronto Sun, the Houston Chronicle, and the UK's Daily Mail.

 

[Snoopster]

If no evidence at the scene aided in identification does that imply that no clothes were found in the area? We know what Madison was wearing that day based on the photo taken. Plus we saw her parents in the video. Where are their clothes? I understand that finding the clothes wouldn't be definitive proof but it certainly would "aid" in identification.

 

[Mollyandme]

hey everyone,

i spent last night following up on the previous threads regarding the Jamison family and then watched the disappeared episode. I don't really know what to think. The first thought that came to my mind is not something that I know if I am able to post, so please delete/alert a mod if this is inappropriate, I know this is a victim friendly site but i think this scenario could be somewhat plausible, especially given the latest "no foul play" line by LE.

i think its possible that the parents were using methamphetamines that day and decided to take some and go for a walk through the area. the use of methamphetamines also may have made it easier for the parents (especially bobby with his disability) to walk long distances, take turns holding their daughter over these distances, etc. I think they went too far and got lost and could have died of exposure/lack of food and water. i know there have been other cases of this happening. It is truly sad. I think they lost track of time and their directions and kept wandering farther and farther into the woods. one of the few explanations I can think of for LE's statement of "no foul play expected" would be if they found this sort of drug paraphernalia near the bodies. I also think Sherilyn brought her gun for protection (which i would do too if I was going out into a sparsely populated wooded area for protection) and is prob going to be found with the bodies, I do not think this was murder suicide. I think they wandered off and got lost, whether or not drugs were involved, I don't know but I think its possible. I know in the Disappeared episode they said there were no drugs found in the home or signs of drugs, but maybe they were not heavy users and brought what they had with them (if this is the case) and LE found this with their remains.

Please don't bash me for posting this, it's honestly the first thing that came to my mind after watching/reading everything.

I also think its possible that there was no drug involvement and Sherilyn was in a manic phase of her bipolar disorder and kept the family walking through the woods until they got disoriented and lost. I don't know, the whole thing is just sad.

 

[watcher9]

From today's Oklahoman:

Anthropologist to examine Latimer County skeletal remains

And from today's Muskogee Phoenix:

Remains may be of Eufaula family

And today's McAlester News-Capital:

Human skeletons found: speculation is remains are those of missing Eufaula family

more at the links

This answers one of my questions.
From your McAlester link,

His office is working with the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation, the FBI, the state Medical Examiner’s office and the Haskell County Sheriff’s Department on the case, James said.

Asked about Haskell County’s role, James said it had initially been thought the remains were located in Haskell County. While law enforcement officers later determined the remains were in Latimer County, the Haskell County Sheriff’s Department continued to assist with the investigation, he said.

I wonder if he's talking about clothing or something else. If it's the gun or as someone just posted, a note, that could explain some things. Maybe the next update will bring a little more info.

“We located some remains and some other items,” James said Monday. James declined to specify exactly what else had been found at the scene, but he did say he believes those items will help with the investigation.

 

[wfgodot]

The infamous 02 May 2010 "demons and spirits"/"special bullets" Sunday Oklahoman article:

Eufaula family’s fate remains mystery

Gary Brandon, a Eufaula pastor, told investigators the Jamisons were engaged in spiritual warfare. He said Bobby Jamison told him he often saw "two to four spirits on the roof” of their lakeside Eufaula home.

Once, Bobby Jamison called Brandon to inquire whether there were "special bullets” he could use to shoot the spirits, the minister told investigators. He told the pastor he was reading the "satanic bible” for a natural remedy.

much more at the link, with video and links to related Oklahoman articles

 

[Mollyandme]

i wonder who would have known that they were going out there that day, surely there would have been some form of communication found on their computer or cell phones if they were supposed to be meeting with someone, unless they were being followed by someone, or verbally spoke with someone in the area there truck was found on their prior trip out that way and arranged verbally to meet at the area again, and then things went bad from there for whatever reason? but that would indicate foul play. i wonder if there was another set of tire tracks found in the area of their car, or if someone met them there, offered to drive them around in their vehicle to show them some areas of land and things went downhill from there.

 

[OkieGranny]

"Depending on the features of these remains and their state of preservation, identification can take anywhere from days to years," spokeswoman Amy Elliott said in a statement."

http://www.njherald.com/story/24002376/found-remains-could-belong-to-missing-okla-family

The statement from the spokeswoman, Amy Elliot saying it could take years to identify the remains strikes me as a way to close down any inquiries into the investigation, or non-investigation into the Jamison case. Surely they know whether these remains are them or not. I think it is the Jamison's, and find this statement more than a little disturbing to say the least! What's up with that? As for Uncle Jack, well, that's one curious statement to make! The Jamison's haven't even been officially identified yet, and even given the logical conclusion that these are the Jamison's, I find his response one of someone who just wants this to go away. How can there be so called 'closure' at this stage? If anything, this is just the beginning of what is supposed to be an investigation into just what happened to the Jamison's! I find these two statements by Amy Elliot and Uncle Jack Jamison quite unsettling, worrisome and very disturbing.

It seems "identification can take anywhere from days to years" is a stock statement from the ME's office, so I wouldn't read too much into it. Ms. Elliott said exactly the same thing when the two cars were pulled out of Foss Lake a couple of months ago:

http://www.newson6.com/story/23466954/medical-examiner-could-take-years-to-identify-bodies-found-in-foss-lake

Amy Elliott with the Chief Medical Examiner's Office said Wednesday the skeletons are being closely analyzed by an in-house anthropologist. The office will attempt to use anthropological and, if necessary, forensic pathological methods. She said positive identification could take anywhere from days to years.

I think they just throw that out there so that everyone won't keep crowding around expecting an answer TODAY. That said, our state does have a tremendous backlog of DNA testing that needs to be done, but one would hope that cases like this get bumped to the front of the line so that the remains can be released and their families can give them a proper burial.

 

[moonstone]

This was my first thought. I haven't followed the case closely, but I can see them getting turned around and hopelessly lost. I could be wrong though.

I have a question:With their keys in the ignition, would you still think that? I can't remember for certain if their car doors were also locked, but if so, it would make me wonder if they would have simply walked back down the road instead of wandering, tho perhaps if the keys were locked in at all they didn't notice right away. I realize there are lots of scenarios to account for.

Inside the locked, four-door pickup with the keys in the ignition they found Bobby Jamison’s wallet, his wife’s purse, a cell phone, a GPS unit, clothing and $32,000 stuffed in a bank bag beneath the driver’s seat. They also found Maizy, a family dog barely clinging to life.

http://newsok.com/eufaula-familys-fate-remains-mystery/article/3458228

 

[los2188]

I only play a doctor in my mind, but is it possible that the mental issues they may have been having caused them to be in a dissociative fugue state in which they are able to function in a "normal" day, but unaware of what exactly they're doing?

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk

 

[Pensfan]

As far as mental health goes, I am not sure how pertinent it is but they had not missed an appointment with the psychologist up until the 9th.

OMG. Another person failed this mentally ill couple and their child.

Psychosis is a serious medical condition that requires hospitalization! How did a licensed psychologist NOT recognize that seeing spirits, living in a rental storage unit on the driveway of a nice home, and desiring magic bullets to kill invisible spirits was serious mental illness?

Although it isn't against the law to be mentally ill, this couple's severe mental illness WAS a direct threat to their precious daughter. In addition, they owned a gun. This psychologist had a moral obligation and a professional duty to report the psychotic behavior and the danger to their small child. He/she needed to insist that a sheriff's officer take his patient(s) to an ER. He/she needed to immediately contact the ER staff and inform them that his/her psychotic patient(s) had a small child at home.

Psychologists cannot prescribe medications. You must be a licensed physician, a PA, or a Nurse Practitioner to prescribe antipsychotics, antidepressants, bipolar medications, and ANY medications in the USA.

 

[Mollyandme]

I only play a doctor in my mind, but is it possible that the mental issues they may have been having caused them to be in a dissociative fugue state in which they are able to function in a "normal" day, but unaware of what exactly they're doing?

Sent from my Event using Tapatalk

i think thats definitely possible. i remember seeing a case on disappeared about a woman from the midwest who disappeared due to a dissociative fugue state and ended up down south somewhere perfectly fine with no recollection of anything.

 

[wfgodot]

While one, I am sure, does not get to select a time for one's disassociative fugue state, I would find it odd if one would occur to not one but both of the Jamisons after having driven a distance to the San Bois to look at property - and with their small child in tow. Folie à deux of course....but. The notion they walked away - even if locked out of their vehicle - to me is dependent on a series of great big "if"s.

 

[Lil'E]

http://www.ktul.com/story/24000992/bones-found-in-latimer-county-possibly-related-to-missing-family