OK OK - Molly Miller, 17, & Colt Haynes, 21, Wilson, 7 July 2013 - #1

[McSpy]

http://m.newson6.com/story.aspx?story=7661294&catId=112042

http://www.oscn.net/applications/os...ype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=1731023&db=Tulsa

http://docapp065p.doc.state.ok.us/s...RTAL30&doc_num=564941&offender_book_id=339835

Sorry, his youngest victim was 2 not 5.

I found this: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9651418/#.UtNzEmt5mK0

It is dated 2005. It talks about a serial rapist terrorizing Tulsa. If you Google "Tulsa rapist" there seems to be a lot of rapes happening in that city. The Cops there seem to have plenty of work to keep them busy.

 

[TooCurious]

He was active from I think 2003 to 2006. He got fired from his job with me around mid 2004. So, who knows how many other close calls he had. I don't know why it did not show in my other post but he was actually arrested in 2003 for DUI after a Christmas party. They had his prints on file the whole time. Not only that in the middle of all these rapes he was caught and questioned for walking in an apartment complex looking suspicious at about 3 in the morning. They let him go. It would have terrible publicity if the newspapers would do their jobs. It wasn't like we did not think it, several of us even made comments to him about it but LE just kept too much info. Anyway, enough of that old case.

So CH did not hurt his ankle in the wreck, then was CN with them when they left the area of the car. Why would they have split up? How would CN get to a place where he could get use the phone so fast and yet CH and MM were lost? The reason I say that is SF was on the phone with CN's mom and aunt immediately after the wreck happened. So either they ran away from CN or SF was with them. Does that make sense? Did I tie it together where you can see the logic? The fact that SF made a police report for a stolen car shows she knew the car wasn't coming back and that was at 6 am. If CN made it to his aunt's house fast enough to initiate those calls then CH should have been able to see the house or something. I don't buy the heard it on scanner routine because at some point they became aware. (The stolen car story)
Did the conversation get so heated after the wreck that they ran from him? Sure would seem like he would let his friends know he was being hunted. Or were they all lost and split up and SF used her phone to call his aunt to come get them? I hope we get answers soon. SF is the key IMO. She can blow it wide open.

 

[McSpy]

He was active from I think 2003 to 2006. He got fired from his job with me around mid 2004. So, who knows how many other close calls he had. I don't know why it did not show in my other post but he was actually arrested in 2003 for DUI after a Christmas party. They had his prints on file the whole time. Not only that in the middle of all these rapes he was caught and questioned for walking in an apartment complex looking suspicious at about 3 in the morning. They let him go. It would have terrible publicity if the newspapers would do their jobs. It wasn't like we did not think it, several of us even made comments to him about it but LE just kept too much info. Anyway, enough of that old case.

So CH did not hurt his ankle in the wreck, then was CN with them when they left the area of the car. Why would they have split up? How would CN get to a place where he could get use the phone so fast and yet CH and MM were lost? The reason I say that is SF was on the phone with CN's mom and aunt immediately after the wreck happened. So either they ran away from CN or SF was with them. Does that make sense? Did I tie it together where you can see the logic? The fact that SF made a police report for a stolen car shows she knew the car wasn't coming back and that was at 6 am. If CN made it to his aunt's house fast enough to initiate those calls then CH should have been able to see the house or something. I don't buy the heard it on scanner routine because at some point they became aware. (The stolen car story)
Did the conversation get so heated after the wreck that they ran from him? Sure would seem like he would let his friends know he was being hunted. Or were they all lost and split up and SF used her phone to call his aunt to come get them? I hope we get answers soon. SF is the key IMO. She can blow it wide open.

IMO, I think they just bolted from the car and split up. They probably felt LE was on their tails and would be swarming the area. CN knew the area, but MM and CH did not, IMO. CN ran to his grandparent's home, which was around the corner. I don't think MM and CH had a clue of where they were at the time and I don't think they knew CN's grandparents lived close. At the very least, they didn't know what direction to go. As far as SFG being with them, I'm not sure she was in the car. I tend to doubt it, but since she made calls, her cell phone pings would reveal her whereabouts at the times she made the calls. LE would have that information. So far, I think SFG made those calls to try to track her car down. She may have made arrangements for him to deliver it to her home at a certain time, but he didn't show up.

One question: why would she call CN's relatives after the crash? What would be her intentions for making those calls? To me, it seems as if she was trying to find her car. What are your thoughts?

JMO

 

[OkieGranny]

So CH did not hurt his ankle in the wreck, then was CN with them when they left the area of the car. Why would they have split up? How would CN get to a place where he could get use the phone so fast and yet CH and MM were lost? The reason I say that is SF was on the phone with CN's mom and aunt immediately after the wreck happened. So either they ran away from CN or SF was with them. Does that make sense? Did I tie it together where you can see the logic? The fact that SF made a police report for a stolen car shows she knew the car wasn't coming back and that was at 6 am. If CN made it to his aunt's house fast enough to initiate those calls then CH should have been able to see the house or something. I don't buy the heard it on scanner routine because at some point they became aware. (The stolen car story)
Did the conversation get so heated after the wreck that they ran from him? Sure would seem like he would let his friends know he was being hunted. Or were they all lost and split up and SF used her phone to call his aunt to come get them? I hope we get answers soon. SF is the key IMO. She can blow it wide open.

BBM

I'm confused. Why would Con need to get anywhere to use a phone when he had a cell phone?

I'm not convinced Sabrina was with them. Why would LE withhold that info when they mentioned tracking the other three phones to prove that Con, Colt, and Molly were all traveling together? I just can't think of a reason why they wouldn't say all four were traveling together, if they were.

IMO, I think they just bolted from the car and split up. They probably felt LE was on their tails and would be swarming the area. CN knew the area, but MM and CH did not, IMO. CN ran to his grandparent's home, which was around the corner. I don't think MM and CH had a clue of where they were at the time and I don't think they knew CN's grandparents lived close. At the very least, they didn't know what direction to go. As far as SFG being with them, I'm not sure she was in the car. I tend to doubt it, but since she made calls, her cell phone pings would reveal her whereabouts at the times she made the calls. LE would have that information. So far, I think SFG made those calls to try to track her car down. She may had made arrangements for him to deliver it to her home at a certain time, but he didn't show up.

One question: why would she call CN's relatives after the crash? What would be her intentions for making those calls? To me, it seems as if she was trying to find her car. What are your thoughts?

JMO

Yeah, I still think Con ran straight home after the crash. He would have felt safe and protected there and, if LE had come knocking on the door, his family members would have alibied him, saying he'd been there all night, IMO.

As I understand it, Sabrina was not only in a relationship with Con at the time, she was also a friend of the family, so texts and calls between the three women wouldn't necessarily be unusual, except for the timing and frequency of their communications that night. I've read the affidavits and don't see anything that says Sabrina was the one who initiated the calls. They just say the cellular activity began within minutes after the wreck, so I think it's more likely that Con called her and/or his family members for help first and then they began to collaborate on a plan to save Con's hide.

 

[JeannaT]

I think in Oklahoma the law is that at least one party must know they are being recorded. So, I can't record persons A and B talking, but I can record a conversation between myself and persons A or B. I think. I'll try to find something to back this up.

Yes - I agree. You can record your own conversations.

 

[TooCurious]

I have read, I can't say it is verified, that Con's phone was left in the car.

Even though they wrecked, it was still nighttime and they should have been able to see if any cops were in "hot pursuit".

The problem I have with that scenario OkieGranny, he would have been tryin to be too cloak and dagger at first with no real reason....yet. Just like they haven't mentioned Sabrina's pings, they have not mentioned Con's phone calls. Running from the law was normal for him, I don't think he would have worried about phone records at that time because up until that point nothing abnormally bad had happened. So why have all these phone calls made on his behalf? We know CH and MM were alive when the calls started so why isn't he doing his own bidding the first few minutes of the wreck?

 

[TooCurious]

Since they do have the pings for CN, CH, and MM, have they sent anyone in the woods to follow their route of travel. We should know exactly where he was when he called his friends and in what creek bed they said they were in. Why has no big search been conducted in that specific area? Or has it and I am behind? Either way, the grass fires probably did an excellent job of wiping out their passage. Why not make that info available though?

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
I still question and wonder if any of the alleged calls + texts from MM + CH AFTER the wreck were really from either one of them.

In some of the radio interviews, some of the relatives of MM + CH also had doubts about this. At first, I kind of dismissed it but after all the new information is coming to light, I really have doubts if any of the alleged calls from either her phone or Colt's phone were actually from either one of them.

In one possible scenerio, they both could have been so badly injured in the car wreck that they never left the vehicle and passed away in the vehicle. Or 1 passed away and the other one was helped from the vehicle and taken somewhere but then also passed away due to injuries.

If something like this happened, then I could see where someone may have used either one or both their phones to try to make it look like they had left the area on foot and is never to be found again. Maybe the foot injury phone call and story about the tree was done at first because the bodies were left in the woods at first and they knew he had a bad foot injury from the car wreck. But then later on they went and recovered the bodies and destroyed all the evidence because they knew forensics could eventually tell a different story. Or the bodies could still be in the woods possibly.

Its just speculation, but i am just not convinced YET that either MM or CH made any texts or phone calls themselves AFTER the car wreck.

 

[TooCurious]

So many things just don't make sense in this case. Hatfield, what you are suggesting would make a lot of sense and explain why CN would be in full cover up mode at the start. It would also kinda explain some attitudes as well. Like CN's family, if they died in the accident there would be nothing to gain from their perspective with CN in jail the rest of his life. They help cover up an accident, not a murder. However, the phone calls being someone else would be hard. My understanding is CH stayed on the phone a good length of time.

 

[OkieGranny]

I have read, I can't say it is verified, that Con's phone was left in the car.

I saw it being said a few times by random people on Facebook pages, but not by any family members. I couldn't trace it back to any reliable source. The only thing I could find about any items being left in the car was in the Haynes family's BlogTalk interview, and that was Molly's purse and ID and some papers.

Even though they wrecked, it was still nighttime and they should have been able to see if any cops were in "hot pursuit."

The problem I have with that scenario OkieGranny, he would have been tryin to be too cloak and dagger at first with no real reason....yet. Just like they haven't mentioned Sabrina's pings, they have not mentioned Con's phone calls. Running from the law was normal for him, I don't think he would have worried about phone records at that time because up until that point nothing abnormally bad had happened. So why have all these phone calls made on his behalf? We know CH and MM were alive when the calls started so why isn't he doing his own bidding the first few minutes of the wreck?

Well, he had just wrecked his girlfriend's nice car, and it might have crossed his mind that she was going to be really PO'd about that. I doubt if he cared much that he had just created a huge problem for her, or that he would've wanted to listen to her gripe about it. I could see him calling his mom or his aunt and telling them to deal with Sabrina for him. It doesn't sound like it had occurred to any of them at this point to worry about phone records.

 

[maureen718]

It's also possible Conn was using either his mother's or his aunt's cell phone that night. So maybe SF was communicating with Conn and one relative, not both. just a thought

 

[Hatfield]

So many things just don't make sense in this case. Hatfield, what you are suggesting would make a lot of sense and explain why CN would be in full cover up mode at the start. It would also kinda explain some attitudes as well. Like CN's family, if they died in the accident there would be nothing to gain from their perspective with CN in jail the rest of his life. They help cover up an accident, not a murder. However, the phone calls being someone else would be hard. My understanding is CH stayed on the phone a good length of time.

It would have been quite an elaborate coverup if he and others started using MM+CH phones and pretending it was really MM + CH using them. Although text messages would have been pretty easy to fake, but any voice calls would be more riskier to pull off.

It would be real interesting to interview anybody that had alleged voice communication that morning after the wreck time . Just to ask them if they really thought the voices were really them or could it have been someone masquerading as them.

I totally agree about their "attitude" and especially his when the relatives that were searching saw him and he allegedly flipped them off. This kind of makes me think along these lines that they may have died from their injuries, and in his mind, he thinks it was just an accident.
The whole "taking no responsibility" thing.

 

[ckia2013]

Hello lovelies,

Can you tell me whether everything I've written below is correct? My goal is to write a brief, accurate background story for my website. I'm not sure whether the age I have for Sabrina is correct. I'm going to add more info, but here is what I have so far:

On July 7, 2013, Molly Miller (17) and Colt Haynes (21) of Wilson, Oklahoma were passengers in a 2012 Honda Accord that belonged to 31 year-old Sabrina Fincher. The driver was identified as Fincher's then-boyfriend, 22 year-old James "Con" Nipp. According to police records, the driver began to drive in a reckless manner at 10:46 PM, "spinning around" (i.e., performing a "donut") such that rocks were slung toward two stationary Wilson police vehicles. The officers activated emergency lights in both vehicles as the Honda Accord sped away, traveling westbound toward the downtown area of Wilson. The vehicle increased speed and turned south onto State Highway 76. By that point, it was apparent that the driver of the Honda Accord was attempting to elude police officers; therefore, the officers notified dispatchers that they were in pursuit of the vehicle.

As the Honda Accord traveled southbound on State Highway 76 in Carter County, the speed of the vehicle increased, the headlights were turned off, and the vehicle was driven into the opposing lane of traffic. The vehicle then turned eastbound onto County Line Road, "throwing gravel" onto the police vehicles. Wilson Police officers ended the chase due to "fear for their personal safety". Specifically, the officers felt that they could not "safely maintain the pursuit due to the speed and dust generated by the Honda Accord". Once the vehicle reached County Line Road, Love County officers picked up pursuit -- which continued onto Long Hollow Road, where officers were advised to block off the dead end road; however, officers claim to have lost sight of the car around 11 PM.

At 12:57 AM, Molly Miller -- who was later identified as a backseat passenger in the Honda Accord -- made a 5-second phone call to 911. A dispatcher returned Molly's call but did not get a response. Police were never dispatched to the area to investigate.

Two weeks later, the Honda Accord was found with extensive damages in a field near where the pursuit had ended.

---
Thank you in advance, OkieGranny and TooCurious... *hint, hint*

 

[TooCurious]

I would steer clear of saying CN was the driver because that has not been determined. He was last seen driving that car at 9pm.

 

[Hatfield]

OT....Amber alert just issued just now in OKC area.

" Police say the missing girl, 16-year-old Yoceli Deleon, was last seen with a male subject in the area of N.W. 16th and Portland. .....The suspect vehicle is described as a late 90's model green Honda. The license plate partially reads "531-K.""

http://www.news9.com/story/24439372/amber-alert-issued-for-missing-endangered-okc-teen

 

[WhittyG]

JMO
I still question and wonder if any of the alleged calls + texts from MM + CH AFTER the wreck were really from either one of them.

In some of the radio interviews, some of the relatives of MM + CH also had doubts about this. At first, I kind of dismissed it but after all the new information is coming to light, I really have doubts if any of the alleged calls from either her phone or Colt's phone were actually from either one of them.

In one possible scenerio, they both could have been so badly injured in the car wreck that they never left the vehicle and passed away in the vehicle. Or 1 passed away and the other one was helped from the vehicle and taken somewhere but then also passed away due to injuries.

If something like this happened, then I could see where someone may have used either one or both their phones to try to make it look like they had left the area on foot and is never to be found again. Maybe the foot injury phone call and story about the tree was done at first because the bodies were left in the woods at first and they knew he had a bad foot injury from the car wreck. But then later on they went and recovered the bodies and destroyed all the evidence because they knew forensics could eventually tell a different story. Or the bodies could still be in the woods possibly.

Its just speculation, but i am just not convinced YET that either MM or CH made any texts or phone calls themselves AFTER the car wreck.

This theory goes back to what I see as one of the most eyebrow raising pieces of evidence: the wiped down car. When CN could not definitely be placed in the vehicle that night it made sense to have wiped down his prints and such. Honestly I don't know that this young man possesses that much forethought, though. That says to me that something much more sinister happened in the car. It could have been serious injury or worse, but something had to happen that would make even CN want to clean it up. I say "even CN" because there is outstanding evidence that police chases and the like are no new walk in the park for CN. If SG can definitely be placed at the scene I'm left with serious doubt that any of the phone calls or texts after the 911 call were made by MM.

 

[OkieGranny]

I would steer clear of saying CN was the driver because that has not been determined. He was last seen driving that car at 9pm.

There was enough probable cause to issue an arrest warrant for eluding, with Con named as the driver.

 

[TooCurious]

There was enough probable cause to issue an arrest warrant for eluding, with Con named as the driver.

That is a long way from saying he was driving though. They can prove he was driving an hour earlier, they can prove his phone was in the car at the time of the wreck, but a good story from him should be sufficient to get a "reasonable doubt" for an attorney. To keep away from any type of defamation suit I would use alleged driver. I definitely think he was the driver but to think that vs declare it is something I wouldn't do.

 

[TooCurious]

I really don't get wiping the car down either unless there was blood. Which they could still find traces of. Con's prints are supposed to be in that car. It was his girlfriends. Unless they were trying to hide CH and MM's prints I really don't know why it would be wiped down.

 

[McSpy]

I have read, I can't say it is verified, that Con's phone was left in the car.

Even though they wrecked, it was still nighttime and they should have been able to see if any cops were in "hot pursuit".

The problem I have with that scenario OkieGranny, he would have been tryin to be too cloak and dagger at first with no real reason....yet. Just like they haven't mentioned Sabrina's pings, they have not mentioned Con's phone calls. Running from the law was normal for him, I don't think he would have worried about phone records at that time because up until that point nothing abnormally bad had happened. So why have all these phone calls made on his behalf? We know CH and MM were alive when the calls started so why isn't he doing his own bidding the first few minutes of the wreck?

Bolded by me

I think they bolted out of that car, because both CN and CH were on probation too. That car chase could land them both in jail to do their full sentences from past offenses. Maybe they thought LE was not too far behind them and could arrive at any time. Their adrenalin was probably at full throttle too. A scary car chase, car goes through a barbed wire fence and into a dark bumpy field, police tailing them, visions of prison . . lots to make one panicky and worried in my opinion. They could have been high too. One of them could have had drugs on them as well.
JMO