OK, Noah Presgrove, 19, Sept 4, 2023, Comanche, homicide, attended a house party, found on side of road

[Live_and_Learn]

I’ll just throw this out there too and see what you all think…

Another theory was that they were jumping the railroad tracks on the ATV that morning and Noah could have landed with his head and neck striking the thick metal track before the ATV rolled on him, giving him the severe head injury. Do you think this would have caused the skull fracturing? Or do you think the golf club story is more likely?

IMO, this is way more plausible than all the vicious, coordinated attack theories. I feel bad for the whole town at this point.

 

[Live_and_Learn]

<modsnip - personalizing>

The autopsy lists the time Noah was found as 5:53 a.m. His autopsy was performed the next day at 1:00 p.m.
Are either of these scenarios possible?

1. Between 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m., Noah was killed, transported back to the house to be "hosed off," transported back to the road, dumped out of a vehicle, and landed on his side with no postmortem injuries, and with fixed posterior livor mortis that did not move at all until the time of autopsy more than 24 hours later?
2. Between 3:00 a.m. and 5 a.m. Noah died on the road, coming to rest in a side position. Livor mortis began forming but was not fixed before the body was repositioned onto the back for transport and storage.

 

[cujenn81]

Here’s my two cents (for as little as it’s worth). Warning: Graphic discussion about his injuries ahead.

The basal skull fracture (also known as a hinge fracture) that completely split his skull into two, the fracture of his frontal bone, the lacerated left temporalis muscle (which we use to chew), the lacerations to the inner side of his lips, the laceration to the bottom of his tongue, and the broken teeth all sound to me like he landed on the road chin first with an extremely large amount of force.

But the 4 x 2 avulsion laceration on the top left side of his scalp and the spinal fractures sound more indicative of falling from a distance and landing on the top of his head (similar to a diving injury).

But then we have the fracture to his left temporal bone (located on the side of the head), which apparently only occurs if there’s a tremendous amount of force. Plus, all of the fractures in his neck, spine, shoulder blades (which are also incredibly difficult to break) and the posterior of nearly every rib. There’s also the lacerations to his upper torso, chest, and head regions. These include lacerations to both lungs, the upper left chamber of his heart, the cardia of the stomach (the part closest to the esophagus), the back of his brain, the brainstem, tongue, lips, and inner ear. These all sound like they were caused by a crushing injury to the upper torso region.

All of this could easily be explained by a pedestrian-motor vehicle accident EXCEPT there are a few important things missing. Key among these is the fact that there’s not a single significant injury to his extremities. No broken bones, no lacerations. The shorts that were found in the road had no observable damage. He sustained a severe, gaping head wound and was bleeding from both ears, but there was little to no blood observed on the road. There was also no evidence of a shattered headlight, no broken glass, no paint chips, skid marks, tire tread. But there was a molar and pieces of a broken necklace found mere feet away from his body. None of that makes ANY sense.

AT A MINIMUM, I think he was placed there after death. Of that I’m nearly certain. He may have been hit by a car or semi-truck or ATV or what have you, but it didn’t happen where he was found. I personally believe an accidental death of some kind probably happened and someone (or someones) panicked and tried to make his death look like a hit and run because they were scared they’d be in trouble. But I’m still at a total loss about what type of accident that might’ve been.

Somebody said something on a podcast that really made me question the reason for the shower and meal story. She said to think about the drunkest you’ve ever been. You were probably stumbling around and couldn’t drive or walk in a straight line. Or you might’ve been throwing up or passing out. But have you ever been so drunk that you couldn’t stand in the shower or shovel a spoon into your mouth? Most people pass out before it gets to that point. But if you had a severe head injury, you might be so disoriented that you needed help doing those things. It’s just something to think about.

Medical Examiner Report: https://kfor.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/05/full-presgrove-ME-report_Redacted.pdf

 

[Chimera]

What a wild ride! I fell down the rabbit hole last night and binged the entire Partners In True Crime podcast series (12 or 13 episodes) about this case and have read all the news articles I could find on this as well. The Daily Mail has the best coverage with links to videos and voice clips, fwiw.

From those sources, I've patched together a rough timeline from that Sunday night into Monday morning. Keep in mind that some times are approximate unless they're specifically noted.

Sunday Midnight (approx): Kaden asleep on couch, his cousin Jorja is being looked after by her friend Breeley as she’s getting sick outside, and the party continues both inside and outside the house.

At 1:30 am, a photo is posted of Noah outside talking with Braylen, Isaac standing to the side with the rifle he was using to shoot birds. A 1:42 am video is taken of Braylen slapping Noah and running off, possibly more of the “slap game” they play. Over the next hour, they decide to take the side x side ATV out, and take off on it. I haven’t found the names of who were all went, but find mention that 5 were on the ATV and it flipped over around 2:40 am. Noah got a bloody nose and scraped his hand but seemed otherwise fine.

The group returns to the house where Noah wants to shower – and the next hour is sketchy. Two girls say they held him up in the shower to wash off as he was drunk and 13 people have claimed to see a video of this (Noah’s back with his arms around the shoulders of the girls). These same two girls say they then made Noah ramen noodles and gave him yogurt. Noah wanted to sleep in Avery’s room but she said no, so here the story fades…

Fragments of what happened next surface. At 3:20, Kaden’s mom calls him to say she has his cousin and he falls back to sleep right after, noticing 3 of the other boys sleeping in the living room with him, but not Jack or Noah. Around 3:30 am, Avery and her sister Carter are having a loud argument on the front porch. At 3:41, Jasmine posts the picture captioned, “Well, Noah is missing” so the hour between 2:40 am – 3:40 am seems to hold the answer. The 3:41 photo may show a wet shirt on Jasmine, indicating that the shower she helped gave Noah was closer to 3:30 but I haven’t uncovered anything else in this time frame.

A lady is driving home from work on Hwy 81 after 4 am and says she’s startled by an ATV passing nearby with 3 people on it. The nearby casino picks up audio of the ATV but no visual (and no detail on what time it was captured).

The next time stamp is 5:15 when Kaden hears Jack enter the house saying that Noah is dead. He’s frantic and loud and Kaden wakes the other boys and they climb into Kaden’s jeep to follow Jack. Kaden can only find one of his Hey Dude shoes so he just wears the one. They turn onto Hwy 81 and see two vehicles stopped ahead, one in either direction – a semi truck and a specialty work truck with a crane or something attached to the back of it. Both are illuminating the road and they see Noah’s body as they pull up behind Jack’s car. No one is attempting CPR. Noah is laying there in his same black shorts he had on earlier and one of his shoes and the other one of Kaden’s.

The driver of the specialty truck steps forward and tells the boys they should leave, so they do, thinking that 911 has already been called. But it hasn’t. Upon their return to the house, Kaden remembers the front porch is wet like something was hosed off.

At the scene, the details are murky again but several allege that the specialty truck is soon joined by an another truck with 3 occupants, possibly the black pickup that police put an APB out on later. One gets out of the passenger seat, runs over to the driver’s side for a moment and then approaches Noah’s body and begins removing his black shorts. Noah’s body may have been rolled to the side here in the process. The 3 men leave in the truck but not before the semi driver takes a choppy video of what just unfolded. It supposedly shows 4 men around Noah – two are in uniforms of some sort, like firemen or police. One has the numbers 32 or 23 embroidered on his shirt. One is a heavy set man, the driver. And I’m only guessing that the specialty truck driver is man #4 but I don’t know for sure. (This is all in Kaden’s interview with the police if you want to go listen).

Soon after, another driver pulls over to assist and calls 911. This is the 5:53am 911 call. The other 911 call may be from the semi driver, they don’t know. Nothing more is reported at the scene with time stamps that I can find.

Back at the house, everyone is crying. The girls gather in a back bedroom together and the boys return to their spots in the living room. Kaden appears to be in shock and sits with the tv on until a car arrives. It’s about dawn at this point and one of the girl’s family has just arrived. It's her mom, dad, sister and sister’s bf. The mom says she was notified by her daughter and it took about 45 min to get there. (For reference, dawn is at 6:42 am and sunrise at 7:06 that morning.)

The mom takes charge and asks for the guns, which she collects (and puts in her car I guess). The kids start cleaning up the house, thinking they’re going to get busted for underage drinking so they get all the cans and bottles in the trash. The mom tells Kaden to put the rest of the beer in his car/cooler and take it with him. The three boys jump in Kaden’s car and he takes them home, getting home around 8 am himself where he tells his mom what happened. Kaden’s phone records support his story.

Oddly, Jack’s phone records don’t. It shows a 5:53 text to his dad saying, “I’ll meet y’all at the lake. Can you bring me a hat please. Someone messed with mine after I went to bed”. Then a phone call from Jack to his dad at 6:05. Jack says he was up early that Monday as he, his dad and grandfather were planning to go fishing. It was on his way to the lake that he came across the two trucks and Noah on the side of the road. But the time doesn’t line up. Kaden has come forward with his story; his interview with the police is available online everywhere and is backed up in multiple MSM stories. Jack sticks to his own.

When the police arrived at the scene, they quickly determined it was not a car accident. There are no broken car parts, the injuries aren’t consistent with a vehicle pedestrian crash, this body was left here. Was it because the road is not considered “tribal land” where the surrounding area is? Or would it just provide a good cover story, making it look like a hit and run?

The thing that really makes it clear is the shorts. Somewhere along the way, a pair of bright clean white shorts are found near Noah, whether they were in the street at first or folded at his side. It doesn’t matter. Because Noah wasn’t wearing them, someone brought them to the scene. I don’t know if they were going to put them on the body and got interrupted, but Noah was found nude with just the two mis-matched shoes on his feet. You know the rest, if you read the autopsy.

Jack was interviewed by NewsNation and did a long video clip saying Noah was hit by a car or truck. This was after police repeatedly said that it was not a vehicle responsible for Noah’s death; he continues pushing his own narrative, leaving Noah’s family even more confused and without answers. And this is where we are, waiting for more answers.

Thanks for all of this. ^^^

I didn't know there was a video ?

Also still bothersome about the black shorts, I think they might hold a clue.

IF this was an accident, no one was going to be in trouble.
Why move Noah.
I am not convinced whatever happened was accidental.
Omo.

 

[Chimera]

Here’s my two cents (for as little as it’s worth). Warning: Graphic discussion about his injuries ahead.

The basal skull fracture (also known as a hinge fracture) that completely split his skull into two, the fracture of his frontal bone, the lacerated left temporalis muscle (which we use to chew), the lacerations to the inner side of his lips, the laceration to the bottom of his tongue, and the broken teeth all sound to me like he landed on the road chin first with an extremely large amount of force.

But the 4 x 2 avulsion laceration on the top left side of his scalp and the spinal fractures sound more indicative of falling from a distance and landing on the top of his head (similar to a diving injury).

But then we have the fracture to his left temporal bone (located on the side of the head), which apparently only occurs if there’s a tremendous amount of force. Plus, all of the fractures in his neck, spine, shoulder blades (which are also incredibly difficult to break) and the posterior of nearly every rib. There’s also the lacerations to his upper torso, chest, and head regions. These include lacerations to both lungs, the upper left chamber of his heart, the cardia of the stomach (the part closest to the esophagus), the back of his brain, the brainstem, tongue, lips, and inner ear. These all sound like they were caused by a crushing injury to the upper torso region.

All of this could easily be explained by a pedestrian-motor vehicle accident EXCEPT there are a few important things missing. Key among these is the fact that there’s not a single significant injury to his extremities. No broken bones, no lacerations. The shorts that were found in the road had no observable damage. He sustained a severe, gaping head wound and was bleeding from both ears, but there was little to no blood observed on the road. There was also no evidence of a shattered headlight, no broken glass, no paint chips, skid marks, tire tread. But there was a molar and pieces of a broken necklace found mere feet away from his body. None of that makes ANY sense.

AT A MINIMUM, I think he was placed there after death. Of that I’m nearly certain. He may have been hit by a car or semi-truck or ATV or what have you, but it didn’t happen where he was found. I personally believe an accidental death of some kind probably happened and someone (or someones) panicked and tried to make his death look like a hit and run because they were scared they’d be in trouble. But I’m still at a total loss about what type of accident that might’ve been.

Somebody said something on a podcast that really made me question the reason for the shower and meal story. She said to think about the drunkest you’ve ever been. You were probably stumbling around and couldn’t drive or walk in a straight line. Or you might’ve been throwing up or passing out. But have you ever been so drunk that you couldn’t stand in the shower or shovel a spoon into your mouth? Most people pass out before it gets to that point. But if you had a severe head injury, you might be so disoriented that you needed help doing those things. It’s just something to think about.

Medical Examiner Report: https://kfor.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/05/full-presgrove-ME-report_Redacted.pdf

The injuries Noah suffered sound worse than a car accident.
I think he was viciously attacked and beat to death.
Imo, it's more than just differing 'stories'.
The kids at the party seem to have circled wagons in a way that exudes fear, and not about the underage drinking.
Omo.

 

[Ladyotm]

The injuries Noah suffered sound worse than a car accident.
I think he was viciously attacked and beat to death.
Imo, it's more than just differing 'stories'.
The kids at the party seem to have circled wagons in a way that exudes fear, and not about the underage drinking.
Omo.

Horrendous injuries, sound like something in a sci-fi movie attacking someone from within his body.

 

[Live_and_Learn]

The injuries are horrific, but beating would have left marks on the body. These injuries are most consistent with falling or jumping off a moving vehicle. There are other cases that are similar. It looks like he fell hitting head first, then back. The force of such a fall onto asphalt would cause the scalp avulsion, hinge fracture, bilateral scapular fractures, and everything else listed on the autopsy, including the lacerations to the internal organs, due to the enormous forces such a fall would exert, even at just 20 MPH. The initial impact would have caused the hinge fracture first and immediate death. With the heart no longer beating, and blood from the internal injuries spilling internally, you would not have much blood on the scene. These accidents that result in fatality very often do not cause fractures in the extremities the way getting hit by a vehicle would.

 

[Same Old Stella]

The shredded fingertips, the imbedded gravel...the injuries are like he was dragged, upper body only, while one or more persons held his feet from on the back of a pick up truck. That would explain why no lower body injuries were found. Maybe it was a game of drunken dare that went horribly wrong? It was out in the country, could he have been accidently run over by a huge tractor they were goofing around on or other piece of farm equipment? Did he dive head first off the roof, aiming for a swimming pool and missed? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Live_and_Learn]

The shredded fingertips, the imbedded gravel...the injuries are like he was dragged, upper body only, while one or more persons held his feet from on the back of a pick up truck. That would explain why no lower body injuries were found. Maybe it was a game of drunken dare that went horribly wrong? It was out in the country, could he have been accidently run over by a huge tractor they were goofing around on or other piece of farm equipment? Did he dive head first off the roof, aiming for a swimming pool and missed? Just thinking out loud here.

The fingers were not shredded. That was a rumor. The autopsy report, which is linked earlier in this thread, gives a better idea of what the actual injuries were.

 

[Gemmie]

The shredded fingertips, the imbedded gravel...the injuries are like he was dragged, upper body only, while one or more persons held his feet from on the back of a pick up truck. That would explain why no lower body injuries were found. Maybe it was a game of drunken dare that went horribly wrong? It was out in the country, could he have been accidently run over by a huge tractor they were goofing around on or other piece of farm equipment? Did he dive head first off the roof, aiming for a swimming pool and missed? Just thinking out loud here.

Here is what Noah's autopsy says about his fingers and hands.

There were scabs present on the right upper lip and palmar surfaces of the right thumb and index finger. There were scabs and healed abrasions on the right side of the nose, back of the right hand including the third through fifth knuckles, middle phalanges of the index to the fifth fingers and distal phalanx of the middle finger. There were healed abrasions on the lower back, back of the left hand including the fifth knuckle and middle phalanx of the fifth finger, posterior left ankle, medial heel of the left foot, and dorsum of the left foot.

https://kfor.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/05/full-presgrove-ME-report_Redacted.pdf

 

[Same Old Stella]

The fingers were not shredded. That was a rumor. The autopsy report, which is linked earlier in this thread, gives a better idea of what the actual injuries were.

Thank you for letting me know. I really wish people wouldn't make up stories/rumors; it only harms an investigation.