OK OK - Norman, WhtFem 755UFOK, 31-45, edentulous since birth, Apr'81

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by doublestop, Jul 16, 2010.

  1. doublestop

    doublestop Member

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    This case appears to not have had much attention when it happened in 1981. A kid out hunting for snakes found her skeletal remains.
    http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=12816551

    She looks familiar, somehow...possibly I've seen her in missing persons reports? She appears to have an unusual facial shape--a very long jaw for a woman.
     
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  3. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here's the DoeNet page for her. I'll drop an e-mail to Helene of DoeNet so that she can add these images to this page and upgrade it to a regular case.

    The Doe Network:
    Case 755UFOK
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/755ufok.html

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Unidentified Female

    * The victim was discovered on April 16, 1981 in Norman, Cleveland County, Oklahoma
    * Estimated Date of Death: 2-5 years prior
    * Skeletal Remains

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 31-45 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'2-5'8"; 110-130 lbs.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Possibly White. Medium height and slender physique. Strong nasal deviation. Fractures noted around left orbital ridge, ribs show healed fractures on right side. Previous pregnancies.
    * Fingerprints: Fingerprints could not be obtained.
    * Dentals: No teeth present.

    Case History
    Bones were found in a field by a school boy - recovered bones and recovered 34 bones during excavation.
    Mid-facial fracture is consistent with blunt force trauma sustained about the time of death.

    Investigators
    If you have any information about this case please contact:
    Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
    405-239-7141
    You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

    Agency Case Number:
    81-2133
     
  4. KeyboardCat

    KeyboardCat New Member

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    This is the only profile I've found that sticks out to me:

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/antone_bettina.html

    I think its the brow bone that makes it look similar to me.
    It says that Bettina Antone wore dentures and the Doe has no teeth.
    Bettina Antone's age fits the range
    Facial structures look sort of the same.
    Bettina Antone was missing from California in March or April in 1980.
    The skeletal remains were found in a cow pasture in April of 1981.
    Antone's profile says she lives a transient lifestyle.

    The brow/eye bones look very similar to me, the way the crest arcs just before the iris line (medial to distal), then juts downward at a sharp angle to frame her eyes.

    I think in the article the top reconstruction photo was supposed to be made with her jaw open similar to the one below it, but maybe finished it as if her mouth was closed? It might be silly for me to assume that, but the length of the bottom of the nose to chin looks the same to me in both photos, even though one shows her mouth open and the other closed.

    Hope I did this right, first time posting what I thought could be a match.
     
  5. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  6. KeyboardCat

    KeyboardCat New Member

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    The width of her face, distance between nose and mouth, distance between mouth and chin, distance between her eyes, all look exactly the same to me.

    She was my first thought also.

    But I'm no professional.
     
  7. kitbits

    kitbits 9 Lives and holding

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    wow, well spotted both of you. I agree--I think the similarities are striking.
     
  8. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I just noticed now that you beat me to it, KeyboardCat. I didn't look above my post after I posted yesterday.
     
  9. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  10. Claudette

    Claudette Alouette, je te plumerai

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    She looks like she is in her 70s in her reconstruction, not her 30s or 40s. Also, the side profile of the chin looks unnaturally large, but from the front looks normal. Just some observations....question - I know soft tissue on reconstructions can actually vary from how it really looked in life. Can other things vary, like the chin?
     
  11. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I agree that the chin in the closed-mouth recon looks way too unnaturally large.

    And to answer your question, the look of the chin can vary significantly depending the angle at which it is viewed, and also on whether the person's mouth is open or not.
     
  12. KeyboardCat

    KeyboardCat New Member

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    Yeah the chin does look large, but notice one thing

    The distance from the end of nose to the end of chin is the same in both photos, although one is shown with the jaw lowered/mouth open and the other shoes it to be closed.

    I think both reconstructions were originally fashioned to show the jaw lowered, for whatever reason, but then when it came time to add the flesh details (instead of just bone structure) one ended up with a closed mouth, when the jaw was supposed to be in an open mouth position.

    Can anyone else see what I mean?
     
  13. kitbits

    kitbits 9 Lives and holding

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    I've seen women (and men) who are in their 30s or 40s who look much, much older--things like smoking, drugs/drink and not having teeth can really age a person prematurely. You really notice these things when living in Europe's unhealthiest country, i.e. Scotland.

    As for the chin...I see what you mean, Keyboardcat...but why would they do that, I wonder...:waitasec:
     
  14. CarlK90245

    CarlK90245 UID Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, it appears that they first depicted her with an open mouth, and then photographed it. They then revised it, changing the mouth by filling in the empty space without raising the jaw, and they also put in a few finishing touches with more detail in the facial wrinkles and creases.

    If they were going to depict her with a closed mouth, they should have raised her jaw.
     
  15. justthinkin

    justthinkin New Member

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    I just couldn't agree more with what you've said. That amount of wrinkling on someone in the 31-45 age category would be most unusual, and to me would indicate a person who'd had a very rough life all her life, a migrant worker perhaps. Even then the amt. of wrinkling is excessive.
     
  16. tatertot

    tatertot Member

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    Very interesting -- Yesterday Doe Network added the information that Jane Doe was born without teeth and they never developed. While Bettina Antone's friends and associates may not have been aware that she wore dentures, somebody from her family (a sister, children and grandchildren are mentioned in her Doe Network profile) ought to be able to confirm if she never had teeth.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/755ufok.html

    The rare condition adontia, in which a person never develops teeth:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodontia


    Interestingly, Wikipedia states anodontia seldom occurs alone; it's associated with skin and nerve syndromes called ectodermal dysplasias. Unless it's just the photo, Bettina Antone does appear to have a lot of facial scarring.
     
  17. webrocket

    webrocket New Member

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    as a follow up to the prior post, this discussion at Wikipedia of Ectodermal Dysplasia does say that it is extremely rare with only about 7,000 cases in the world, although I have to question that number as there are several foundations out there dedicated to the syndrome(s). those who suffer from the condition can have pronounced chins. Also the condition is most common among Caucasians

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectodermal_dysplasia

    the UID did not have to be from OK, but I would hope that the first place they looked for information were dentists or orthodontists in OK to see if they had any patients who had the condition. there could not have been many in reality.
     
  18. CherBearSTL

    CherBearSTL New Member

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    This is the first time I have read about this case. There are 3 ruleouts listed in NamUs, but they are not the lady mentioned above.

    Shirley Banning 1938 Oklahoma
    Donna Barnhill 1967 North Carolina
    Carolyn Holloway 1943 Texas
     
  19. malaika

    malaika New Member

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    "She was born without her teeth."

    Wait aren't we all born with no teeth ? ;-) lol
     
  20. joeytes

    joeytes Member

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  21. joeytes

    joeytes Member

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    Already updated in NAMUS.

    This is not Dixie May Forrester. She is in the exclusion list as of today.

    FWIW I did send an email to Michael Nance (the Regional Administrator) January 8 just to see what would happen.

    The email was:

    Hello Mr Nance:

    A NAMUS Comparison with this Unidentified Decedent found April 16, 1981 in Cleveland Oklahoma

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4898
    CASE Number 81233

    matches to Dixie May Forester missing since July 11, 1971.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/11783/15/
    CASE 11-25908
    NAMUS MP#11783

    Circumstances match including height, weight and the fact that the Unidentified decedent and Dixie May Forester had no teeth.

    DNA is available for both Dixie May Forester and the unidentified decedent

    If you have questions please contact me at this e-mail address.

    Thank You,

    xxx xxxxxx


    Mr Nance replied back the next day:

    Thank you for your efforts. Both cases have mtDNA and nucDNA in national CODIS.

    Mike


    I am more surprised at how quickly Dixie May Forester was ruled out and updated in NAMUS than the fact that this is not Dixie May Forester.

    I also sent emails to Dixie May Forrester's MP contacts the same day but received no reply.
     

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