OK - OU fraternity "SAE" sings racist chant on bus

[Blondie in Spokane]

'This is a devastating lesson': Ringleader in racist Oklahoma frat chant issues an apology as parents of a second come forward to brand son's actions 'disgusting'

Parker Rice, 19, apologized after Daily Mail Online revealed his role in chant

Was filmed with Sigma Alpha Epsilon brothers making sickening chant

Sang: 'There will never be a n***** SAE' while on party bus Saturday

Rice has been expelled from the university following the scandal

Levi Pettit was also named as one of those responsible - by his parents

Susan and Brody Pettit issued statement saying chant was 'disgusting'

Both students were originally from the Dallas area

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-son-s-actions-disgusting.html#ixzz3U2OYjoPF

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I feel the need to point out that although the two expelled students attended OU, they were from Texas, not Oklahoma.

In any case, Rice's apology in the Daily Mail article sounds sincere to me. I hope he learns what he needs to from this.

 

[SStarr33]

That is the whole crux of the matter. Nobody is born racist. It is a learned/taught behavior.

But not always taught by family.

 

[Isabelle]

Are these spoiled brats suffering from affluenza? This is sickening!

 

[gitana1]

I agree that the behavior is repellent. I am not defending them at all.

I wonder, though, if they were expelled could that give them justification for a lawsuit against the university on free speech grounds? I would really appreciate your perspective on this as an attorney.

There has not been a SCOTUS case regarding college speech codes that has ruled such codes are a violation of the First Amendment. The codes likely fall under the "fighting words" exceptions to unfettered speech.

Also, I cannot see that these students would actually file a lawsuit that would bring greater attention to the fact that they are horrible racists.

 

[gitana1]

Reminds me of the Congressional Black Caucus. And there are hotel/motels in the Fla. keys that are allowed to discriminate against straight people and will only allow gays in. Still doesn't make it right, and you can't outlaw racism.

You can outlaw discrimination though.

You know I see this argument all the time when some overtly racist act comes up: "Well black people can do it. So it is a double standard."

It seems like a justification for gross racist behavior.

The supposed double standard is not one at all. There is a big difference between a minority group who has been oppressed by historically entrenched institutional racism, and excluded from churches, schools, colleges, social groups, buses, hospitals, lodges, etc., who forms their own group in order to mitigate against the effects of the oppression, discrimination and exclusion they have suffered, and majority group members who gleefully exclude members of a minority group for no reason other than the belief that that other group is inferior.

In fact in this case, comparing the desire of an oppressed minority group to gather and seek solace and solutions from one another, whether that desire is misguided or not, to a drunken group of young people who are maliciously chanting about lynching and excluding members of a minority group, is baffling in its lack of logic. IMO.

 

[gitana1]

Excellent point. Blacks don't own that word. if they're allowed to use it then everyone should be allowed to use it.

Actually, they have reclaimed it and thus they do own it, in a sense. It's like the term "Queer". It used to be an incredible insult. It still is when used by heterosexuals to denigrate gay people. But it was re-claimed by gay people and when used by them, or in a polite way by academics, the context is different and it is not an insult.

Same thing with the N-word. The pronunciation and spelling are actually even different when used by whites to denigrate and blacks as a reclamation of their agency.

I personally do not like the use of the word for any reason but there is a difference: http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-40-fall-2011/feature/straight-talk-about-n-word

 

[gitana1]

I was at OU From 92 - 96 and I have heard this chant before, but it was not at the SAE house. It was at a different house.

Seriously? That is so disturbing. I would raise hell if I heard someone chanting that. What did you do? How did you feel? Was that something perceived as kind of normal? Because it seems really horrible and outrageous to me.

I feel the need to point out that although the two expelled students attended OU, they were from Texas, not Oklahoma.

In any case, Rice's apology in the Daily Mail article sounds sincere to me. I hope he learns what he needs to from this.

'This is a devastating lesson': Ringleader in racist Oklahoma frat chant issues an apology as parents of a second come forward to brand son's actions 'disgusting'

Parker Rice, 19, apologized after Daily Mail Online revealed his role in chant

Was filmed with Sigma Alpha Epsilon brothers making sickening chant

Sang: 'There will never be a n***** SAE' while on party bus Saturday

Rice has been expelled from the university following the scandal

Levi Pettit was also named as one of those responsible - by his parents

Susan and Brody Pettit issued statement saying chant was 'disgusting'

Both students were originally from the Dallas area

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-son-s-actions-disgusting.html#ixzz3U2OYjoPF

I'm not swayed by the "apologies". Nothing would make a normal, good person who is free from racist attitudes to do what these two punks did. They and their families have good PR assistance. They know what to do to make sure "junior" can still go to some college and get a good job.

It's always sincere after the fact. IMO. You know what I mean?

 

[MyBelle]

Making offensive speech can lead to all kinds of negative consequences. However, this is a public university, so the First Amendment arguments will be very interesting to me. I understand that "free speech" is not without limits, but we all should all hope that restrictions on free speech by public and government funded entities be made very thoughtfully. We are a free society, and with a free society, we have to take the bad with the good at times.

I think public shaming, shunning, and shining light on racists or other hate mongers is the best tactic.

Evidently the parents of the OU students forgot to teach them there are consequences for words as there are for actions. Nothing is really free.

JMO

 

[shadowraiths]

I feel the need to point out that although the two expelled students attended OU, they were from Texas, not Oklahoma.

In any case, Rice's apology in the Daily Mail article sounds sincere to me. I hope he learns what he needs to from this.

It did not sound the least bit sincere to me. For example.

'I admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip'​

aka, the devil made me do it.

'Yes, the song was taught to us'​

aka, someone else did it first.

'For me, this is a devastating lesson and I am seeking guidance on how I can learn from this and make sure it never happens again.'​

He's seeking guidance on what? How not to behave in a racist manner? How to hide it better? What, exactly?

And what about the other boy? His parents apologized for him?

His apology came via his parents, Susan and Brody Pettit, who wrote online that his actions were 'disgusting' and that he 'will live with the consequences forever'.

Pettit's family posted a statement online Tuesday evening, casting his involvement with the song as 'a horrible mistake'. They also insist he is 'not a racist'.

The statement said: 'He is a good boy, but what we saw in those videos is disgusting.
'While it may be difficult for those who only know Levi from the video to understand, we know his heart, and he is not a racist.'​

What is with the, "it was a mistake" bit? How does someone accidentally sing a racist chant? Please.

 

[MyBelle]

I was at OU From 92 - 96 and I have heard this chant before, but it was not at the SAE house. It was at a different house.

I think it is an extremely old chant and the students actually had no clue about its meaning. The "N" word used to be a derogatory term to describe the dregs of society no matter the race. I remember my older brothers using it to insult each other.

The fraternity should have retired that chant around the same time the National Guard was shooting innocent students at Kent State and young men of all colors were getting blown up in SE Asia.

JMO

 

[wfgodot]

The chant should not have had to be "retired" -- the meaning was always derogatory, and was always clear, especially with its direct reference to lynching. It has nothing to do with "all colors." It is a slur against black people. Nothing mitigates that fact.

I lived in Oklahoma for 15 years, and am not surprised at all by the usage there -- the racism was alarming; and the apparent "shock" of some authorities has as much or more to do with the effect it might have on recruiting athletes for OU football as it does on matters of actual substance. The mask slipped a little; the chickens came home to roost.

Two decades ago the place where I lived had a "don't let the sun set on you here" billboard -- also featuring the 'n'-word -- on the outskirts of town. So the only shock I can register has to do with the fact that people seem so surprised at the existence of that chant at the most significant university in the state, the one held to be the more progressive of the two major state institutions.

 

[gitana1]

It did not sound the least bit sincere to me. For example.

'I admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip'​

aka, the devil made me do it.

'Yes, the song was taught to us'​

aka, someone else did it first.

'For me, this is a devastating lesson and I am seeking guidance on how I can learn from this and make sure it never happens again.'​

He's seeking guidance on what? How not to behave in a racist manner? How to hide it better? What, exactly?

And what about the other boy? His parents apologized for him?

His apology came via his parents, Susan and Brody Pettit, who wrote online that his actions were 'disgusting' and that he 'will live with the consequences forever'.

Pettit's family posted a statement online Tuesday evening, casting his involvement with the song as 'a horrible mistake'. They also insist he is 'not a racist'.

The statement said: 'He is a good boy, but what we saw in those videos is disgusting.
'While it may be difficult for those who only know Levi from the video to understand, we know his heart, and he is not a racist.'​

What is with the, "it was a mistake" bit? How does someone accidentally sing a racist chant? Please.

Right. A mistake is forgetting to add a zero to an important calculation. It's not purposefully doing something so outrageous.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am failing trying to do the multi quote, but I expect it will be clear which posts I am responding to.

1. His apology seemed sincere to me because in his words he took full responsibility, no "if" as in "I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my actions" which puts the onus for the offense on the offended party rather than the offending party. True, his wording could well be the work of a PR firm. I'm optimistic enough to hope that it wasn't.

2. According to the Daily Mail article the full statement read: I admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip, but that’s not an excuse. Yes, the song was taught to us, but that too doesn’t work as an explanation.

So he seems sincere to me that he's not making excuses.

3. The "seeking guidance" does sound illogical. In the best possible light, it could mean he's realized he has a problem with alcohol that he needs to address. He doesn't say that, though, so I won't assume that's what he means.

On another topic, what about the SAE house mom caught on video gleefully using the N word and trying to justify it by herself, and at least one poster here, with the excuse that she was simply singing along to a rap song?

She's a 79-year-old white woman, for crying out loud. I'm really to believe she is a rap music aficionado?

 

[MyBelle]

The chant should not have had to be "retired" -- the meaning was always derogatory, and was always clear, especially with its direct reference to lynching. It has nothing to do with "all colors." It is a slur against black people. Nothing mitigates that fact.

I lived in Oklahoma for 15 years, and am not surprised at all by the usage there -- the racism was alarming; and the apparent "shock" of some authorities has as much or more to do with the effect it might have on recruiting athletes for OU football as it does on matters of actual substance. The mask slipped a little; the chickens came home to roost.

Two decades ago the place where I lived had a "don't let the sun set on you here" billboard -- also featuring the 'n'-word -- on the outskirts of town. So the only shock I can register has to do with the fact that people seem so surprised at the existence of that chant at the most significant university in the state, the one held to be the more progressive of the two major state institutions.

Lynchings were pretty much equal opportunity in the early history of this country. The Hatfields and McCoys feuded over a pig and a lynching and mass destruction followed. My family moved to Texas when I was in the third grade and I was referred to by the teacher as a Yankee. It's part of the culture that apparently still permeates.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I am failing trying to do the multi quote, but I expect it will be clear which posts I am responding to.

1. His apology seemed sincere to me because in his words he took full responsibility, no "if" as in "I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my actions" which puts the onus for the offense on the offended party rather than the offending party. True, his wording could well be the work of a PR firm. I'm optimistic enough to hope that it wasn't.

2. According to the Daily Mail article the full statement read: I admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip, but that’s not an excuse. Yes, the song was taught to us, but that too doesn’t work as an explanation.

So he seems sincere to me that he's not making excuses.

3. The "seeking guidance" does sound illogical. In the best possible light, it could mean he's realized he has a problem with alcohol that he needs to address. He doesn't say that, though, so I won't assume that's what he means.

On another topic, what about the SAE house mom caught on video gleefully using the N word and trying to justify it by herself, and at least one poster here, with the excuse that she was simply singing along to a rap song?

She's a 79-year-old white woman, for crying out loud. I'm really to believe she is a rap music aficionado?

BBM. Exactly. This woman was supposed to be there as a role model.

 

[shadowraiths]

On another topic, what about the SAE house mom caught on video gleefully using the N word and trying to justify it by herself, and at least one poster here, with the excuse that she was simply singing along to a rap song?

She's a 79-year-old white woman, for crying out loud.

I totally agree. Moreover, and imho, the video of the "house mom" supports my contention that the "climate" of that particular frat was steeped in racism.

 

[shadowraiths]

Think the #SAE chant was an isolated incident? #NOTjustSAE shows otherwise.​

link

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Of course they SHOULD be, but they are not. Our laws and legal decisions have recognized that equality is not achieved by waving a magic wand.

That does not mean you take rights away from one group to give them to another.
The people in this case are beasts. I can not imagine the idea that it is okay to speak that way about people. I am glad they are off the campus.
This is what comes from raising people to go along with the group. To not stand out. To not have integrity.

You can not govern how people think. You can not govern what people feel. You can make them legally obligated to comply but it will not change their soul.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I am failing trying to do the multi quote, but I expect it will be clear which posts I am responding to.

1. His apology seemed sincere to me because in his words he took full responsibility, no "if" as in "I'm sorry if anyone was offended by my actions" which puts the onus for the offense on the offended party rather than the offending party. True, his wording could well be the work of a PR firm. I'm optimistic enough to hope that it wasn't.

2. According to the Daily Mail article the full statement read: I admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip, but that’s not an excuse. Yes, the song was taught to us, but that too doesn’t work as an explanation.

So he seems sincere to me that he's not making excuses.

3. The "seeking guidance" does sound illogical. In the best possible light, it could mean he's realized he has a problem with alcohol that he needs to address. He doesn't say that, though, so I won't assume that's what he means.

On another topic, what about the SAE house mom caught on video gleefully using the N word and trying to justify it by herself, and at least one poster here, with the excuse that she was simply singing along to a rap song?

She's a 79-year-old white woman, for crying out loud. I'm really to believe she is a rap music aficionado?

Yesterday on the news she said she had no idea what they were saying or something to that effect. Age does not guarantee brains.