Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

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Realized my earlier post with the 4/18 info from the M.E. is likely paywalled for most, so here's another site that should be widely accessible:


"The pathologist is still working to determine the causes of death. The state's chief medical examiner, Dr. Eric Pfeifer, said Thursday they were not shot.

In the new affidavit, the OSBI confirmed that the bodies were found on property leased by Cullum to graze cattle. The bodies were recovered after an excavation of an area of disturbed dirt.

The OSBI revealed in the affidavit a stun gun was also located at the excavation site. Adams had bought five stun guns in Guymon on March 23."
The hammer, coupled with the blood at the scene, makes me think they were likely beaten to death.

Absolutely brutal.
 
The hammer, coupled with the blood at the scene, makes me think they were likely beaten to death.

Absolutely brutal.
Agreed... so sick and demented. Truly unimaginable, but unfortunately a likely reality.
Would also add that the stun gun being found at the excavation site makes me think these weren't just used in the initial "take down" or kidnapping of the victims, but possibly along the way to the field/pre-dug site.
 
JMO Watching News Nation this evening and the description of the burial site, it appears TC dug a hole large enough to bury the car. Description was the hole was 10 ft deep. That is why the hole was dug the day prior to the abduction. IMO Things went south when the women fought ferociously so that changed the perp's plans. Was PG possibly the designated driver to drive the car to the burial site but was not needed because the car was left?? JMO

Fortunately the idiot perps left a trail to follow by purchases, phone records etc. Had things gone as planned it would have appeared the women and the car just disappeared from the face of the earth. The remote burial location would probably never have been found. JMO
It would have taken 2 to 3 hours to dig the hole with a back hoe attachment on a skid steer but the hole could have been closed in a matter of minutes. JMO
 
The hammer, coupled with the blood at the scene, makes me think they were likely beaten to death.

Absolutely brutal.

The intentional use of hammers and the tasers tell me this is torture. Extended intentional painful torture, like a blood-lust frenzy with 5 people with tasers and who knows how many hammers.

I am dreading the autopsy report.
 
This KSN article briefly addresses the records issue. The records were sealed due to the criminal investigation and for the privacy of the minors. Sealing a civil court record because it may be used in a criminal investigation is actually against the law in Oklahoma. But, minor privacy is a fairly good excuse. I have a lot of opinions on the scope of what was sealed, but I doubt anyone is up to challenging the order in this particular case.

I don't believe that article is accurate. It was published before the victims were found and news since then says they were not shot.
 
The intentional use of hammers and the tasers tell me this is torture. Extended intentional painful torture, like a blood-lust frenzy with 5 people with tasers and who knows how many hammers.

I am dreading the autopsy report.
And remember that TA searched for tasers and pain levels.
 
This could have been very, very bad. Weapons, body armor, history of violence... yikes. Thank heavens every agency involved was very well prepared. IMO.
I had some real fears during the 2 weeks waiting for these arrests, that we could see a nasty situation unfold when it came time for LE to make arrests. The antigovernment vibes along with the cultish religion in the mix was giving me Waco, TX flashbacks! I was really concerned we could see a nasty standoff and small children being in the middle of it. MOO I was relieved when I saw the heavy guns rolling in during those arrests.
 
The August 2022 custody affidavit (posted upthread) painted Veronica as a negligent parent who routinely left her children with unreliable friends while trying to keep her job during unstable career and childcare options. The implication was that personal problems interfered with providing a stable home for the two children.

Wrangler got custody, Veronica was reduced to supervised visits once a week.

Was she fleeing an abusive relationship in 2019? She lost custody in 2022.

Between 2022 and 2024, <modsnip: no link> and was arrested for assaulting either his pregnant wife, or his mother in law ??? The charge was reduced to a short stint in jail, and rehab, which is where he was when his mother murdered Veronica.

Meanwhile, Tifany took control of Wrangler's children, even enlisting police to prevent Wrangler from having legal custody and access to his children.

I think Wrangler was involved in the plan to murder Veronica. I hope he is charged with conspiracy to murder. Wrangler discussed death threats by Adams and Cullum (Feb 2024?) against Veronica, and stated "we will take out Veronica at drop off", which is exactly what happened.

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@otto -- a couple of corrections on the timing here:

First, the Appellate brief by WR was filed May 2021, not August 2022, and this wasn't a sworn custody affidavit but IMO, a hit piece against VB drafted by team WR in an attempt to gain sole custody of the children.
VB was time barred from responding to the brief by WR, and even though the Court made its decision (August 5, 2022) on WR's brief only, the Court was not swayed by the allegations contained in the brief to remove the children from VB or place any restrictions on VB's custody but instead ruled the parents should share custody of the children. Previously, the trial court awarded the Mother sole, legal custody and the Father, standard visitation (May 2019).

We also know that even after the trial Court ruled on standard visitation for the Father, the parents were essentially enjoying shared physical custody of the children every other week from summer 2019 until VR and the children were evicted from property owned by the paternal grandmother-- causing VB to begin moving around.

IMO, I think this period of instability with housing and work by VB was all part of the grand plan by the puppet master (i.e., TA) where WR would have a basis to appeal the trial courts decision-- all in the hope that WR would obtain sole legal custody of the children.

What's also clear is this action to appeal the trial court's decision was contrary to WR's testimony during the 2019 custody trial where WR testified that in the best interest of his children, he would be agreeable to shared custody 50/50.
1713514723325.png
Emergency Orders by WR for physical custody came at the end of 2022 following allegations against VB's minor age family member. However, these court Motions, exchanges, and subsequent intervention Motions by TA can't be discussed since this period remains under seal.

Similar to the acknowledgement by the Appellate Court, I think the parents were young, immature, and struggled but were both finding their way to be fit, loving, and devoted parents to their children.

IMO, I don't think it was was ever WR's idea to remove the children from VB. I also don't think he ever wanted to be a fulltime custodial parent. I think WR was a pawn used by TA. What's his was hers, and this was not negotiable.

<modsnip: sleuthing someone not named a POI>

Appellate Custody Records
 
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In the motions to hold four defendants without bail, it is stated, in part, that suspect Tifany Adams, 54, “did provide a recorded statement to law enforcement indicating her responsibility for the death of the deceased.”


The court documents also revealed that the bodies of Butler and Kelley were found in a pasture below a dam that Cullum rents for cattle grazing. The property, which is located 8.5 miles from the location where the women disappeared and where Butler’s vehicle was found, had fresh dirt work done, and discarded burner phones were found.
 
Cora's comments to CW and / or CW's recollection or recounting of the story may not have the kind of precision that we would like or LE has in putting together this case.

I would not be surprised to find some of the Cora's story is missing significant parts and we are just trying to interpret a story deliberately full of holes.
YES... This is exactly what I have been thinking......
She had the dialogues with her mother, but her own recollections mixed with fear and dread could have easily misunderstood so of the "facts"
 
If I’m PG, and if there’s some reason something was different about my relationship to this case (either because I had a change of heart and went to authorities, or because I was actually involved in another, more important project, or because I really wasn’t involved at all, or honestly who knows what), and I *if* saw what happened on this project that appears to have gone extremely sideways, it’s possible (being a nice guy and a dad and all) that my first thought would have been about the minors at home. Could he have gone back to their house to check on them? True. CW’s testimony doesn’t mention it, but I don’t think these sorts of accounts are always necessarily complete. If a question isn’t asked, it’s quite likely not to be answered. Also, are all the mentions of PG so far solely from CW’s testimony? I think so. So it’s all sort of secondary souce material … or really more like tertiary material, since my recollection is that it’s not just “CW said ….” But mostly rather “CW said that Cora said …”

So maybe it’s true that Cora said all this, and that what she said was true. Or, maybe it’s true that Cora said this, but that she was either lying or incorrect. Maybe Cora never said this at all, or not in exactly this way, and that CW was remembering incorrectly or filling in the blanks. Maybe PG was being set up to be the fall guy, but that didn’t work out properly either? So many possibilities. But there’s definitely no real primary material to go on as far as this aspect of the case goes, as far as I can tell …
 
If I’m PG, and if there’s some reason something was different about my relationship to this case (either because I had a change of heart and went to authorities, or because I was actually involved in another, more important project, or because I really wasn’t involved at all, or honestly who knows what), and I *if* saw what happened on this project that appears to have gone extremely sideways, it’s possible (being a nice guy and a dad and all) that my first thought would have been about the minors at home. Could he have gone back to their house to check on them? True. CW’s testimony doesn’t mention it, but I don’t think these sorts of accounts are always necessarily complete. If a question isn’t asked, it’s quite likely not to be answered. Also, are all the mentions of PG so far solely from CW’s testimony? I think so. So it’s all sort of secondary souce material … or really more like tertiary material, since my recollection is that it’s not just “CW said ….” But mostly rather “CW said that Cora said …”

So maybe it’s true that Cora said all this, and that what she said was true. Or, maybe it’s true that Cora said this, but that she was either lying or incorrect. Maybe Cora never said this at all, or not in exactly this way, and that CW was remembering incorrectly or filling in the blanks. Maybe PG was being set up to be the fall guy, but that didn’t work out properly either? So many possibilities. But there’s definitely no real primary material to go on as far as this aspect of the case goes, as far as I can tell …

ditto on all...
and all they had to do was redact.
but chaos was running rampant at the time.
 
My .02 on PG. As I try to keep up with this thread I have heard 2 theories (there may be more). The first is that he was an informant. Not buying this one. If he knew when the crime was going to occur the police could have prevented it or caught them in the act. The second theory was he was part of the group. If he was at the crime scene he would be arrested as well. It is quite possible they are trying, or at least CT, is trying to implicate someone the group doesn't like or has slighted them in some fashion. However 5 stun guns implies there was a fifth, but could have been someone else other than PG. Maybe the 5th is if the son could have got out of rehab for Easter? JMO
 
My .02 on PG. As I try to keep up with this thread I have heard 2 theories (there may be more). The first is that he was an informant. Not buying this one. If he knew when the crime was going to occur the police could have prevented it or caught them in the act. The second theory was he was part of the group. If he was at the crime scene he would be arrested as well. It is quite possible they are trying, or at least CT, is trying to implicate someone the group doesn't like or has slighted them in some fashion. However 5 stun guns implies there was a fifth, but could have been someone else other than PG. Maybe the 5th is if the son could have got out of rehab for Easter? JMO
Why would they bother with an informant on a case in which no one seems to have given the concerns of the mother the slightest credence in the first place? If there is some connection to LE here, I doubt it had anything to do with protecting VB.
 
Why would they bother with an informant on a case in which no one seems to have given the concerns of the mother the slightest credence in the first place? If there is some connection to LE here, I doubt it had anything to do with protecting VB.
Just another reason PG was not an informant in my book.
 
Just another reason PG was not an informant in my book.
Well, not an informant *in this case* is all I meant. I don't see any reason he might not have been involved in something *else*, and in that scenario going along with the crowd would have seemed like the correct thing to do ... up to a point. That being said I don't really see any particular reason to think that *is* the case, either.
 
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