Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

DNA Solves
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DNA Solves
From the warrant, LE was searching for .380 acp but I don't recall the magazine description found with the purse to include the caliber info.

View attachment 505545
I was surprised to see that she had hollow points! Sadly, she either didn't have the time or the fortitude to shoot them. :( I'm thinking the first option. Who could have ever imagined what happened?
 
WRT the gun: I believe the significance may be related to how many rounds were fired and where, not so much who ultimately came into possession of the pistol or disposed of it. LE and the prosecutors will want the most accurate representation of the events that occurred at the site of the abduction and assault to ensure the defendants have minimal opportunity to skate around or otherwise absolve themselves, singularly, from the key components of the crime, and the charges. They have the Kia: I would hypothesize they have checked it for GSR and DNA and blood spatter and similar but if the gun was fired outside the vehicle or otherwise not fired at all, presumably they would not have found any GSR.

I note that the warrant for the Chevy PU did list DNA and Biological material but did not mention GSR. A contemporal thought: The warrant specified a return due no more than 10-days later (warrant signed April 17) and the return listed only 4-items: by their nature none of them represented DNA or blood samples or even dirt samples. If such sampling went on (which I would expect?) the results of any lab test would most likely not be available inside the 10-day window, but in other cases followed here on WS, we have seen such samples listed on a search warrant return. If they did not take any such samples, we conclude that CW did a very good job cleaning the truck? Or is OK somehow different in regard to the contents of a warrant return than other states such that we can expect there was more to the warrant return then listed on April 26 or?
In both search warrants for the Twombly Chev PU (SW 2024-13) and the Beasley property leased by TC (SW 2024-6), GSR is not specifically called out. However, it follows that the intent for such evidence is claimed by "...all other evidence of the crime of murder."

In comparison to the Beasley private property search warrant where "8 wet swabs" were inventoried on the Search Warrant Return, we also know the Twombly PU was seized and in the custody of OSBI under the same warrant.

IMO, just because we don't see swabs collected (for testing) from the PU on the Search Warrant Return for SW2024-13, doesn't mean that no swabs were obtained during the standard processing of the vehicle in police custody.

By statute, the Twombly vehicle will eventually be forfeited so I don't think there's any danger that the subject evidence won't be collected and discovered if it exists. MOO
 
In both search warrants for the Twombly Chev PU (SW 2024-13) and the Beasley property leased by TC (SW 2024-6), GSR is not specifically called out. However, it follows that the intent for such evidence is claimed by "...all other evidence of the crime of murder."

In comparison to the Beasley private property search warrant where "8 wet swabs" were inventoried on the Search Warrant Return, we also know the Twombly PU was seized and in the custody of OSBI under the same warrant.

IMO, just because we don't see swabs collected (for testing) from the PU on the Search Warrant Return for SW2024-13, doesn't mean that no swabs were obtained during the standard processing of the vehicle in police custody.

By statute, the Twombly vehicle will eventually be forfeited so I don't think there's any danger that the subject evidence won't be collected and discovered if it exists. MOO
I doubt any cleaning on the Twombly pickup would have gotten rid of all the evidence. Especially if completed by two teen girls. You can wipe and vacuum, but it’s still there. I am sure it was a goldmine for LE.
 
The absolute stupidity of these five who thought they were bigger than life, above the law and would never get caught. Amazing!
Just shake heads at the planning, then shake heads more at the crime, and finally really shake heads at the body disposals. Amazing would be criminals could be so unintelligent.
 
Just shake heads at the planning, then shake heads more at the crime, and finally really shake heads at the body disposals. Amazing would be criminals could be so unintelligent.
It's a really good thing they are locked up. They're a menace to society. Imagine even considering throwing an anvil (or anything) through a car's windshield. What is wrong with them?
 
It's a really good thing they are locked up. They're a menace to society. Imagine even considering throwing an anvil (or anything) through a car's windshield. What is wrong with them?

At least somebody must’ve had enough sense to kibosh the plan of tossing an anvil. It’s tragic that at least one of the five whose involvement was essential didn’t back out of this plot as well, essentially sparing Veronica and Jilian’s life in exchange for their own personal freedom. Of course criminals never expect to get caught but Dimwits would be a more appropriate name than Misfits.
JMO
 
At least somebody must’ve had enough sense to kibosh the plan of tossing an anvil. It’s tragic that at least one of the five whose involvement was essential didn’t back out of this plot as well, essentially sparing Veronica and Jilian’s life in exchange for their own personal freedom. Of course criminals never expect to get caught but Dimwits would be a more appropriate name than Misfits.
JMO
Hah, don’t even give ‘em that much credit—IIRC, it was reported shortly after the first four perps were arrested that the only reason they didn’t go through with the anvil plan is because whatever harebrained ruse they concocted to draw Veronica out of her home on the evening they intended to execute (no pun intended) the plan failed!
 
At least somebody must’ve had enough sense to kibosh the plan of tossing an anvil. It’s tragic that at least one of the five whose involvement was essential didn’t back out of this plot as well, essentially sparing Veronica and Jilian’s life in exchange for their own personal freedom. Of course criminals never expect to get caught but Dimwits would be a more appropriate name than Misfits.
JMO

The anvil plan went awry because they couldn't get her out of her house. Adams even googled "how to get a person out of their house."

I think we can all ascertain that the anvil plan would not have worked regardless.

The more people involved in a crime the more likely to get caught, but yes, it is incredible that one of the five did not at least back out.

Then on the other hand, what if there actually were other people who did back out? We wouldn't know.

2 Cents
 
Hah, don’t even give ‘em that much credit—IIRC, it was reported shortly after the first four perps were arrested that the only reason they didn’t go through with the anvil plan is because whatever harebrained ruse they concocted to draw Veronica out of her home on the evening they intended to execute (no pun intended) the plan failed!

Yeah but we don’t know the reason that plan failed. Did they unsuccessfully attempt whatever was google’s suggestion was because getting ‘someone out of their house’ doesn’t guarantee they’ll drive off in their car. Or did the suggested plan fail because one or more particpants deemed the intended plan unfeasible? We may never know.

JMO
 
Re-watched news stories re: courthouse charges, it doesn't seem the defendants have mentally processed their crimes. Do they still believe their sovereign citizen declarations are going to get them released? TA actually admitted the crime. Her nice hairdo? Is this just a game to her? And, Paul Grice? He has small children? Family man? WTHeck?
 
Does anyone else visualize Darlene from the Ozarks show when it comes to Momma T?

Unfortunately this is real life and these innocent women should have never been murdered by this band of nut jobs, so many innocent lives ruined.

I wondered yesterday about that big 15 feet deep hole being dug, it sounds like they were leasing the property and had asked the owner if they could remove a tree sometime in early/mid April. So they were plotting this for awhile. :(

MOO
DARLENE?????
Of course
Since day 1
Hahaha
 
I can't process a 15-ft-deep hole. That's deeper than the eave of (for example) a one-story house. It would be an onerous job, even for a full-sized backhoe, and would take a huge amount of time to backfill. No landowner would be happy about that amount of disturbance on their property, even if they are a "friend".

I'm sure police have looked hard at the landowner to determine if he knew about the plot. That kind of intense scrutiny can turn up all sorts of unrelated things that might be illegal or unsavory -- not sayin' the landowner is unsavory or does illegal things, just idle speculation about unintended consequences.
 
I can't process a 15-ft-deep hole. That's deeper than the eave of (for example) a one-story house. It would be an onerous job, even for a full-sized backhoe, and would take a huge amount of time to backfill. No landowner would be happy about that amount of disturbance on their property, even if they are a "friend".
^^rsbm

Actually, I think the hole depth was a net 15 feet deep hole by TC.
From the AA, we know the hole location was below a dam and that TC first removed concrete buried here. IMO, he likely replaced the concrete with the freezer chest and backfilled the hole.

In other words, I don't think TC excavated and backfilled 15 feet total - he got some help by the concrete that previously existed there. JMO

PCA, pg 3/7:

1716755442221.png
 
Re-watched news stories re: courthouse charges, it doesn't seem the defendants have mentally processed their crimes. Do they still believe their sovereign citizen declarations are going to get them released? TA actually admitted the crime. Her nice hairdo? Is this just a game to her? And, Paul Grice? He has small children? Family man? WTHeck?
I mentioned that earlier. A number of WSers speculated her hair was done by other inmates in the jail. Since TA's got great looking hair for her court appearances and Cora appears completely frazzled, I'm guessing TA is in the pod with other women and Cora is the one being held alone. Pure speculation, of course.

Also, since TA is 54 and her oldest grandchild 8, making TA 46 when he was born, and since TA's son seems to be an irresponsible human being and a horror for a parent -- if I were TA's lawyer, I'd be looking at a menopause defense for her. ;)
 
I mentioned that earlier. A number of WSers speculated her hair was done by other inmates in the jail. Since TA's got great looking hair for her court appearances and Cora appears completely frazzled, I'm guessing TA is in the pod with other women and Cora is the one being held alone. Pure speculation, of course.

Also, since TA is 54 and her oldest grandchild 8, making TA 46 when he was born, and since TA's son seems to be an irresponsible human being and a horror for a parent -- if I were TA's lawyer, I'd be looking at a menopause defense for her. ;)

What kind of a defense is that? Sounds insulting towards mature women.
 
What kind of a defense is that? Sounds insulting towards mature women.
I've never seen it used as a defense. As a mature woman who celebrated my 75th recently, I don't see it as insulting. I know how badly the hormones interfered with me mentally both for pregnancy and menopause. Naturally, I never attempted anything criminal and I was blessed with an easy child.

Fortunately, I also had family and friends who would have committed me if I'd suggested what TA and gang have done. They certainly would NOT have said, "Hey that sounds like a great idea. I'll help."

However, if I had had a son carrying on the way we've read that WR did and I had all those hormonal shifts going on, who knows? I personally don't think a menopause defense will fly - in Oklahoma or anywhere else, but it would be relatable if the jury is packed with women of a "certain age". A child driving you completely bonkers, then the hormonal rushes.

I know feminists would likely get all upset and insulted with the way things are seen today, but I don't personally feel it's an insult to women. Each person and body chemistry is different.

These people really have no legitimate defense that I can personally see. Just throwing one out there. Besides, it's sort of a tongue-in-cheek suggestion.
 
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I've never seen it used as a defense. As a mature woman who celebrated my 75th recently, I don't see it as insulting. I know how badly the hormones interfered with me mentally both for pregnancy and menopause. Naturally, I never attempted anything criminal and I was blessed with an easy child.

Fortunately, I also had family and friends who would have committed me if I'd suggested what TA and gang have done. They certainly would NOT have said, "Hey that sounds like a great idea. I'll help."

However, if I had had a son carrying on the way we've read that WR did and I had all those hormonal shifts going on, who knows? I personally don't think a menopause defense will fly - in Oklahoma or anywhere else, but it would be relatable if the jury is packed with women of a "certain age". A child driving you completely bonkers, then the hormonal rushes.

I know feminists would likely get all upset and insulted with the way things are seen today, but I don't personally feel it's an insult to women. Each person and body chemistry is different.

These people really have no legitimate defense that I can personally see. Just throwing one out there. Besides, it's sort of a tongue-in-cheek suggestion.

She has already taken responsibility so her defense doesn't need a defense.... 2 cents
 

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