Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

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Do we actually know for certain that none of the other accused ever filed to revoke their citizenship? We know that the Cooks, including their adult daughters, filed their revocations the same days as Grice, so maybe the other misfits had done so as well? or planned to?
It's never been reported so I doubt they did. Pretty sure whoever dug up the stuff on Grice looked for all of them doing it. I don't think Grice's revocation of citizenship, nor what the other four thought about that had anything to do with why the victims were killed. It was like so many other custody disputes that end up in murder.
 
Do we actually know for certain that none of the other accused ever filed to revoke their citizenship? We know that the Cooks, including their adult daughters, filed their revocations the same days as Grice, so maybe the other misfits had done so as well? or planned to?
What I would find interesting if true- TA was a process server and served on some sort of local board. Cora and hubs had some sort of meat facilty right? They would have to be licensed in some fashion to do that. Point is, would it be wise to do that if you have to deal with local or even state government in areas related to your livelihood?
 
What I would find interesting if true- TA was a process server and served on some sort of local board. Cora and hubs had some sort of meat facilty right? They would have to be licensed in some fashion to do that. Point is, would it be wise to do that if you have to deal with local or even state government in areas related to your livelihood?
From News Nation: Kansas moms killings: Ex-attorney of arrested grandma was ‘shocked’
"Jones (TA's former attorney) described Adams as a well-known member of the community who has been in the farming and ranching business for several years and served on the county’s hospital board."

Also TA served as chairman of the Republican Party in I believe Texas County -- which I find enormously strange. This process server info is new - at least to me.

I suspect the Misfits' beliefs are evolving and the other positions held as regular citizens may date back decades.

Wise? No, but remember who we're talking about here.
 
I've never seen it used as a defense. As a mature woman who celebrated my 75th recently, I don't see it as insulting. I know how badly the hormones interfered with me mentally both for pregnancy and menopause. Naturally, I never attempted anything criminal and I was blessed with an easy child.

Fortunately, I also had family and friends who would have committed me if I'd suggested what TA and gang have done. They certainly would NOT have said, "Hey that sounds like a great idea. I'll help."

However, if I had had a son carrying on the way we've read that WR did and I had all those hormonal shifts going on, who knows? I personally don't think a menopause defense will fly - in Oklahoma or anywhere else, but it would be relatable if the jury is packed with women of a "certain age". A child driving you completely bonkers, then the hormonal rushes.

I know feminists would likely get all upset and insulted with the way things are seen today, but I don't personally feel it's an insult to women. Each person and body chemistry is different.

These people really have no legitimate defense that I can personally see. Just throwing one out there. Besides, it's sort of a tongue-in-cheek suggestion.
I don't think hormones is a legitimate defense. Better TA be evaluated mentally because there's something definitely wrong other than hormones. Ultimately, she may end up in a mental facility. And, let us not forget TA raised her son. Sure doesn't seem she did a very good job. Guesses are part of the reason he's the person he is today is because of her. Hopefully, after spending time with TA, the grandchildren can be de-programed. Did anyone know the real TA?

It will be interesting to understand why the others went along with TA, but if they take a plea, we'll never know. It does not appear she promised them anything. How did she convinced them or intimidated them to do this awful deed? But, then, I've always been intrigued with the 918 people who went along with Jim Jones at Jonestown.
 
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I don't think hormones is a legitimate defense. Better TA be evaluated mentally because there's something definitely wrong other than hormones. Ultimately, she may end up in a mental facility. And, let us not forget TA raised her son. Sure doesn't seem she did a very good job. Guesses are part of the reason he's the person he is today is because of her. Hopefully, after spending time with TA, the grandchildren can be de-programed. Did anyone know the real TA?

It will be interesting to understand why the others went along with TA, but if they take a plea, we'll never know. It does not appear she promised them anything. How did she convinced them or intimidated them to do this awful deed? But, then, I've always been intrigued with the 918 people who went along with Jim Jones at Jonestown.
I don't know if I agree. I think hormone defense is a legitimate defense. I remember a case about 20 or so years ago. IIRC it was in TX, a woman drowned her kids in a bathtub and tried to use post partum as a defense. It did not work initially. I am sure there have been others who have tried hormone defense as well, but this one stands out in my head. Andrea Yates I believe her name was. However a few years later they overturned her conviction to not guilty by reason of insanity. I am sure there were other MH issues at play as well. However I doubt TAs hormones led to this conspiracy.
 
I don't know if I agree. I think hormone defense is a legitimate defense. I remember a case about 20 or so years ago. IIRC it was in TX, a woman drowned her kids in a bathtub and tried to use post partum as a defense. It did not work initially. I am sure there have been others who have tried hormone defense as well, but this one stands out in my head. Andrea Yates I believe her name was. However a few years later they overturned her conviction to not guilty by reason of insanity. I am sure there were other MH issues at play as well. However I doubt TAs hormones led to this conspiracy.
I would also add to this that a hormone crime would probably be spur of the moment and not premeditated like this crime.
 
I would also add to this that a hormone crime would probably be spur of the moment and not premeditated like this crime.
That sounds logical and in most cases is probably right. I think where this went from fantasy to a plan was when the first person agreed with her that the mother needed to be removed. I can't comprehend the others agreeing to participate.

Since earlier someone here posted that Cole Twombly had paid off mortgages on two pieces of land, I have to wonder if he saw TA's frustration with the custody battle as an opportunity.

However, having felt the power of those mentally unhealthy hormones, I can not be sure how I'd vote if on a jury. It would take a very skilled defense attorney.
 
She has distanced herself? Then she probably isn't into the sovereign state stuff anymore - if she ever was.

Yes, his wife relocated with their children around the time of Grice's arrest. I believe they returned to Colorado. She has indicated she knew nothing about the Misfit's plans and was not involved in the murders, and indeed she is not named in any of the warrants or affidavits.

Given the weird questions Grice asked his friend about DNA buried in dirt and leaving for Mexico, I can't believe he didn't at least make suspicious statements to/in front of his wife after the murders. Even as someone completely uninvolved, you'd think she started replaying previous conversations & comments that might not have meant much at the time but in light of the murders suddenly did.

I think if I suddenly had reason to think my husband was involved with two murders and perhaps talked of fleeing to Mexico, I would get myself, the kids & the pets out of there pronto.
 
I don't know if I agree. I think hormone defense is a legitimate defense. I remember a case about 20 or so years ago. IIRC it was in TX, a woman drowned her kids in a bathtub and tried to use post partum as a defense. It did not work initially. I am sure there have been others who have tried hormone defense as well, but this one stands out in my head. Andrea Yates I believe her name was. However a few years later they overturned her conviction to not guilty by reason of insanity. I am sure there were other MH issues at play as well. However I doubt TAs hormones led to this conspiracy.

Andrea Yates, who drowned her 5 kids, declines release hearing from mental hospital, again​

 

Yes, his wife relocated with their children around the time of Grice's arrest. I believe they returned to Colorado. She has indicated she knew nothing about the Misfit's plans and was not involved in the murders, and indeed she is not named in any of the warrants or affidavits.

Given the weird questions Grice asked his friend about DNA buried in dirt and leaving for Mexico, I can't believe he didn't at least make suspicious statements to/in front of his wife after the murders. Even as someone completely uninvolved, you'd think she started replaying previous conversations & comments that might not have meant much at the time but in light of the murders suddenly did.

I think if I suddenly had reason to think my husband was involved with two murders and perhaps talked of fleeing to Mexico, I would get myself, the kids & the pets out of there pronto.
It will be interesting to see if she testifies against him.
 
I don't know if I agree. I think hormone defense is a legitimate defense. I remember a case about 20 or so years ago. IIRC it was in TX, a woman drowned her kids in a bathtub and tried to use post partum as a defense. It did not work initially. I am sure there have been others who have tried hormone defense as well, but this one stands out in my head. Andrea Yates I believe her name was. However a few years later they overturned her conviction to not guilty by reason of insanity. I am sure there were other MH issues at play as well. However I doubt TAs hormones led to this conspiracy.

For a mental health defense there would have to be some sort of documentation. Like when a woman says she shot her husband after years of abuse there needs to be evidence of abuse to support this.

Not enough to just "come out of the blue" and say now suddenly you have mental problems, unless she is evaluated right now and found to be incompetent to stand trial.

Also she took care of the children, fought in court over them and meticulously planned and bought murder items and tried to cover her tracks.

All showing she is mentally competent to face capital murder charges. I believe Lori Vallow's DP was dropped due to her mental condition, she was found incompetent to stand trial twice.

2 Cents

It will be interesting to see if she testifies against him.

Not necessary to testify against Grice because during police interviews he admitted to killing both women and burying both women.

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For a mental health defense there would have to be some sort of documentation. Like when a woman says she shot her husband after years of abuse there needs to be evidence of abuse to support this.

Not enough to just "come out of the blue" and say now suddenly you have mental problems, unless she is evaluated right now and found to be incompetent to stand trial.

Also she took care of the children, fought in court over them and meticulously planned and bought murder items and tried to cover her tracks.

All showing she is mentally competent to face capital murder charges. I believe Lori Vallow's DP was dropped due to her mental condition, she was found incompetent to stand trial twice.

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Not necessary to testify against Grice because during police interviews he admitted to killing both women and burying both women.

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Tifany admitted "responsibility", too, but they all plead NG so they're gonna try to walk that back. None of them have ANY defense so what on earth will their defense atty's being arguing? Total lost cause, just like Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. Exercise in futility.
 

Yes, his wife relocated with their children around the time of Grice's arrest. I believe they returned to Colorado. She has indicated she knew nothing about the Misfit's plans and was not involved in the murders, and indeed she is not named in any of the warrants or affidavits.

Given the weird questions Grice asked his friend about DNA buried in dirt and leaving for Mexico, I can't believe he didn't at least make suspicious statements to/in front of his wife after the murders. Even as someone completely uninvolved, you'd think she started replaying previous conversations & comments that might not have meant much at the time but in light of the murders suddenly did.

I think if I suddenly had reason to think my husband was involved with two murders and perhaps talked of fleeing to Mexico, I would get myself, the kids & the pets out of there pronto.

Apparently she did leave pronto.

Yes suspicious statements and behaviors probably occurred but not enough to specifically know the murder plans....until after the fact when now his suspicious statements and actions are revealed to be part of a diabolical heinous double murder plot.

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I agree that after the murders she put 2 and 2 together and could see
 
Tifany admitted "responsibility", too, but they all plead NG so they're gonna try to walk that back. None of them have ANY defense so what on earth will their defense atty's being arguing? Total lost cause, just like Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. Exercise in futility.

Most defendants plead not guilty at arraignment. The attorneys need alot of time to make a plan.

Do you think they were not read their rights?

"You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law...."

Cannot walk that back.

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Most defendants plead not guilty at arraignment. The attorneys need alot of time to make a plan.

Do you think they were not read their rights?

"You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law...."

Cannot walk that back.

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I sure as hell hope they were! Please, no errors.

We don't know what they'll come up with to try to save their necks. I'll bet Tifany will come up some justification.
 

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