Discussion in 'Identified!' started by Khavna, Jul 7, 2006.
This is fantastic! Excellent turn around, too. Great work!
That could be very true, I was thinking that as well.
Also, I searched up the meaning of the 'M-H' on one of her rings, and it most likely represents the first trademark used by McGrath-Hamin, Inc., Providence, Rhode Island in 1951 for jewellery such as rings.
Here are some of the URLs I found relating to the M-H ring.
Silver Forums at 925-1000.com
meaning of "sterling shank" stamped ring? - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums
Sterling mh ring | Etsy
Sorry if this has already been covered but were the rings still on her fingers, i.e. do we know what finger each ring was on? I know animals had scattered some of her remains so not sure if everything was intact so to speak.
Also, those of you who've followed this case closely - are there any MPs that haven't been ruled out yet that you guys think are a good chance? If so I'd be interested to look and see if I can find an NZ connection with any of them.
By the way, I know that DDP are likely to solve this case any day now anyway but can't help wanting to research it myself!
Absolutely! Seems to me also that she was a visitor of some sort, maybe curious about distant relatives in NZ, perhaps even studied there for a semester or three? Buying a bra might indicate a longer stay. Her isotopes shows she grew up in the US or Canada, and seem to back up this.
Many of us outside the US have distant relatives there or in Canada, sometimes we make contact. I know quite a few people over the years who've been contacted by relatives in said countries who are exploring their roots and origin country, my own parents included. Annie Doe might just be one of those people.
Isotope findings are unreliable so honestly I wouldn't put too much stock in them. There could be places in New Zealand that mirror those isotopes too.
She was wearing a bra manufactured in NZ, but do we know where the bra was sold? It could be that the bra was sold in the US, and she had never been to NZ - in which case the distant NZ relatives would be a coincidence.
That she has common ancestors in the UK gives me hope that I might one day be able to help solve one of these cases. My DNA is in GEDmatch but I didn't think it would ever actually help since DNA Doe project is in the US and right now there doesn't seem to be a UK equivalent. I know that some of my ancestors and distant cousins did move to the US. I'm unlikely to be related to Annie since my family roots are in Lancashire and Worcestershire (nowhere near Sussex) but it just goes to show that just because you're not in the US doesn't mean your DNA can't help!
Just curious what you're basing your conclusions on when you state isotope findings are unreliable and what places in NZ could mirror Annie's isotope areas. TIA.
None of Buckskin Girl's isotopes pinpointed the states where she grew up or where she was last. I think one of them even indicated that she might be originally from New Jersey.
Seems like an unreliable science at best.
It's totally plausible that Annie Doe WAS traveling along the US/Canada border but I wouldn't make any hard assumptions on where she grew up based on that.
Also, DNA Doe Project had this to say about Annie's isotope results:
"We had some of the same questions you did, so our team consulted with an expert, and the very generic upshot is that isotope testing results can vary distinctly based on who is doing the interpretation, which means consistency can be problematic.
So in this case, we can't get too invested in how accurate the isotope results are at this point. And like most cases, we may only find answers once we get closer to her true identity. "
It depends on what bio materials are tested. As far as I know, the few solved cases that we know about that have used isotope testing, we really haven't had any follow up to validate the findings. For example, Lyle Stevik had it done, but we've never been given any information on his life prior to his death, so for all we know, they were spot on.
And in Marcia King's case (BG), her results weren't meant to pinpoint where she grew up, as they only did her hair and nails, what they had on hand, because they didn't want to exhume her. So her results only detailed where she spent the last year or so of her life-how far back depended on how fast her hair grew. So, this case can't be used negate the validity of other cases and their isotope results. Had investigators tested Marcia's teeth and bone, the results most likely would have pinpointed her place of origin, but we'll never know because she was identified before they were to take the next step of exhumation.
Annie's isotope results paint a broader picture because her results are from hair, teeth, bone. But, unless we're told the facts of her life prior to her death after she is ID'd, we'll never know how accurate they are. So, I'm thinking to say it's an unreliable science at best isn't a fair or accurate statement unless there's a solved unidentified remains case on which isotope testing was performed and the results were contrary that I'm not aware of.
Oh wow, haven't read this thread in years. Amazing job sluthers!!!
The isotope expert DNA Doe Project consulted said that isotope testing results can vary distinctly based on who is doing the interpretation, which means consistency can be problematic. This was in response to someone asking about Annie's isotopes. Based on what that expert has said, I think it's fair to say isotope results are unreliable. That doesn't mean they're useless at all but, as DNA Doe Project said, we probably shouldn't get too invested in those results.
We, the general public, may not be too aware of discrepancies between isotope assessments and where Jane and John Does actually grew up but I imagine experts in the field are very aware of the variability of interpretations and outcomes.
Quite a lot more information in this article about the NZ connection, and specifically the individuals in NZ that have been identified by DDP as Annie’s ancestors. Canterbury is a region in the South Island of NZ.
19th century Canterbury couple could help solve US body mystery
“The DNA Doe Project researchers have found two of the New Zealand matches shared DNA with each other. Their common ancestors were Canterbury couple Richard James Vanstone and Harriet Ellen Vanstone, whose maiden name was Williams. Richard was born in Devonport, England in 1832 and died in Little River, Canterbury in 1900. Harriet was born in Akaroa in 1861 and died in Little River in 1948.“
As a genealogist, I'm so thrilled by this info! I think it's more specific than any they have released in their other cases. I hope it doesn't mean they are stuck in their research. I hope anyone who knows they have these ancestors in common will upload their DNA to GedMatch to see if they are a close relative of Annie Doe.
I do believe this Doe was from New Zealand. I believe this is why nobody has ID'ED her.
Well that's a headline you don't see every day.
Unusual for this much info to come out ..... (sigh)
I'm also wondering why they have released so much info. Possibly because they've realised the NZ press is excited about this, and they want the publicity (not a bad thing! Publicity means donations and donations means more cases being taken on!) or maybe because they're hoping this will encourage more people in NZ to upload to GEDmatch and therefore might help to identify Annie Doe. There are lots of possibilities. I'm hoping it's not because they're struggling with her. MOO.
The article from the New Zealand paper has a lot of information. I would say they're probably struggling. It seems to be a very difficult case.
Is there anything we can do besides try to spread the word?