ObscureClaire
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OR OR - David Grubbs, 23, Ashland, 19 Nov 2011
- Thread starter gooniequeen
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gooniequeen
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shut up! holy cow -this is an EXCELLENT break. someone for sure will recognize these!
Snoopster
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New poster here. I live two blocks from where the murder was committed. I've walked my dogs on exactly that part of the path, twice a day for 12 years. I've walked it in daylight and dark and never seen the slightest thing that would cause concern. There are occasionally transients on the path, like anywhere else, but they are vastly outnumbered by bikers, joggers, dog-walkers, kids going to and from school, moms with strollers, and leisure walkers.
Something sounds a little odd about the skateboard and helmet. That whole area was closed off for days, the mobile crime lab was parked down there, police searched the area and then volunteers by the dozen searched under police guidance for 2 days. Looking under shrubs, in trash cans, in the weeds on the far side of the railroad tracks... they were looking for any teeny tiny clue. Something as big as the skateboard and helmet would have been found quickly. My guess is they were found some distance from the crime scene and the police are just putting it out there for lack of any clearly relevant evidence. They said they have cleared a few people (didn't say who, but I assume John Thiry was one -- I hope so), but that they have no viable suspects at this time.
I think I'll go to the meeting tomorrow, but I don't think we'll learn much of anything.
Something sounds a little odd about the skateboard and helmet. That whole area was closed off for days, the mobile crime lab was parked down there, police searched the area and then volunteers by the dozen searched under police guidance for 2 days. Looking under shrubs, in trash cans, in the weeds on the far side of the railroad tracks... they were looking for any teeny tiny clue. Something as big as the skateboard and helmet would have been found quickly. My guess is they were found some distance from the crime scene and the police are just putting it out there for lack of any clearly relevant evidence. They said they have cleared a few people (didn't say who, but I assume John Thiry was one -- I hope so), but that they have no viable suspects at this time.
I think I'll go to the meeting tomorrow, but I don't think we'll learn much of anything.
gooniequeen
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Is it possible they found the skateboard and helmet immediately following the murder and had been holding on to them? (ie. something only the murder would have known about?)
does seem slightly ridiculous that this would be something they found after the fact and are throwing it out there now.....
does seem slightly ridiculous that this would be something they found after the fact and are throwing it out there now.....
I thought about that, but since they've basically just been on a fishing expedition from the start I don't know why they would have been holding on to it if it's something they really thought could lead them to a suspect or a witness.
I was interviewed by them on two occasions. As several of my neighbors have been. I don't get the feeling that they have anything to go on at all -- they're just hoping for calls, tips, leads to come in.
I have a relative who works at the high school, and she said there was a student who may have seen something. He was in the cemetary (about a block-length down the bike path from the crime scene) texting a friend. You certainly can't see the crime scene from there, but he did say he saw a "weird looking" guy going one way and then abruptly another, he seemed very erratic -- the student said he was feeling pretty wary of the guy, but it was getting quite dark and he was not close enough to really identify the person. He later checked his cell phone and the text he sent to his friend was at 5:24 pm -- which would have been about exactly the right time.
I was interviewed by them on two occasions. As several of my neighbors have been. I don't get the feeling that they have anything to go on at all -- they're just hoping for calls, tips, leads to come in.
I have a relative who works at the high school, and she said there was a student who may have seen something. He was in the cemetary (about a block-length down the bike path from the crime scene) texting a friend. You certainly can't see the crime scene from there, but he did say he saw a "weird looking" guy going one way and then abruptly another, he seemed very erratic -- the student said he was feeling pretty wary of the guy, but it was getting quite dark and he was not close enough to really identify the person. He later checked his cell phone and the text he sent to his friend was at 5:24 pm -- which would have been about exactly the right time.
berseriousplease
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If JT was cleared that's good for him. As long as they gave him adequate consideration I'm satisfied. Part of me was concerned LE wanted it to be anyone but him, given how foolish this town would look considering the ample warning signs over the years with JT.
Also, I agree the timing of announcing finding these items is odd. Deliberately withholding information is the only rational explanation. Surely they didn't miss them initially, and finding them now (1.5 wks later) would render them nearly irrelevant.
A younger person doesn't typically possess much of the maturity needed to appreciate the gravity of their actions. There's a saying, 'nobody can be as cruel or ruthless as a child'. Perhaps a young teen is responsible.
From my own experience (owned a skate shop)- I can tell you that these items belong to a younger, less-skilled skater. Helmets are only worn per a parents mandate, so anyone over 18 is out of the question (probably 12-15). Also, the board appears to be heavily worn, likely ridden for months. The wear/damage on the board shows no sign that this person had any clue how to do any slide or grind tricks. These tricks leave easily an perceptible pattern of marks that run perpendicular to the board's length. Whoever this board belonged to could run much faster than they could ever hope to skate, that I guarantee.
Regarding the meeting tomorrow, I started thinking about it and if this was indeed a 'thrill-kill' for some psycho, what could be more satisfying that being surrounded by people who're terrified of your violence? Surely this person is emboldened by his escaping detection. The idea that I could be sitting next to the murderer is just too much to stomach. Scary thoughts
Also, I agree the timing of announcing finding these items is odd. Deliberately withholding information is the only rational explanation. Surely they didn't miss them initially, and finding them now (1.5 wks later) would render them nearly irrelevant.
A younger person doesn't typically possess much of the maturity needed to appreciate the gravity of their actions. There's a saying, 'nobody can be as cruel or ruthless as a child'. Perhaps a young teen is responsible.
From my own experience (owned a skate shop)- I can tell you that these items belong to a younger, less-skilled skater. Helmets are only worn per a parents mandate, so anyone over 18 is out of the question (probably 12-15). Also, the board appears to be heavily worn, likely ridden for months. The wear/damage on the board shows no sign that this person had any clue how to do any slide or grind tricks. These tricks leave easily an perceptible pattern of marks that run perpendicular to the board's length. Whoever this board belonged to could run much faster than they could ever hope to skate, that I guarantee.
Regarding the meeting tomorrow, I started thinking about it and if this was indeed a 'thrill-kill' for some psycho, what could be more satisfying that being surrounded by people who're terrified of your violence? Surely this person is emboldened by his escaping detection. The idea that I could be sitting next to the murderer is just too much to stomach. Scary thoughts
talentlocal
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Hello all I've been following the thread and I wanted to speak to a couple of things.
-First off he was not carrying a bank bag or any money from his workplace. I work there as well and NONE of our money is transported by anything other than an armored car service. I'm saying this both to inform the folks on here and to inform any would be wrongdoers that they are welcome to tangle with the fully armed professionals if they see an opportunity.
-Second is the interesting guess at the meaning of "Lengthman" as a nickname. In this case it was entirely literal - he was a tall fellow and often would reach for things to help others out (one of the stories shared at the funeral).
-<modsnip>but I assure you that while we at Shop'n Kart do have a wide variety of musical tastes none of us engage in any kind of ritual violence or "satan worship."
-The photos with the machete were taken during a camping trip. Here in Oregon we have a lot of undergrowth as well as many parks where the cutting of live trees is prohibited. Building a fire frequently means using a machete or hatchet to glean dead wood from the area.
-Though the Police have not said to me personally this detail it has become somewhat common knowledge that his wallet was not disturbed and no money appeared to have been taken. I know this because I worked with him - most of us are poor as it's not a glamorous job.
<modsnip> We are all very stressed at the store and have been questioned by police several times. Many of us have supplied bladed objects to the police at their request because we all want the killer(s) to be apprehended as soon as possible.
<modsnip> I am asking that in a case such as this with a young man who was so kind and understanding to please remember that even if one person who knew him did this there are many, many, many who did not and we are all going through a very difficult time right now. <modsnip>.
thank you for your time.
phil
-First off he was not carrying a bank bag or any money from his workplace. I work there as well and NONE of our money is transported by anything other than an armored car service. I'm saying this both to inform the folks on here and to inform any would be wrongdoers that they are welcome to tangle with the fully armed professionals if they see an opportunity.
-Second is the interesting guess at the meaning of "Lengthman" as a nickname. In this case it was entirely literal - he was a tall fellow and often would reach for things to help others out (one of the stories shared at the funeral).
-<modsnip>but I assure you that while we at Shop'n Kart do have a wide variety of musical tastes none of us engage in any kind of ritual violence or "satan worship."
-The photos with the machete were taken during a camping trip. Here in Oregon we have a lot of undergrowth as well as many parks where the cutting of live trees is prohibited. Building a fire frequently means using a machete or hatchet to glean dead wood from the area.
-Though the Police have not said to me personally this detail it has become somewhat common knowledge that his wallet was not disturbed and no money appeared to have been taken. I know this because I worked with him - most of us are poor as it's not a glamorous job.
<modsnip> We are all very stressed at the store and have been questioned by police several times. Many of us have supplied bladed objects to the police at their request because we all want the killer(s) to be apprehended as soon as possible.
<modsnip> I am asking that in a case such as this with a young man who was so kind and understanding to please remember that even if one person who knew him did this there are many, many, many who did not and we are all going through a very difficult time right now. <modsnip>.
thank you for your time.
phil
Shelby2
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I'm very sorry for your loss.
Shelby2
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David's Memorial
"The memorial service for David Michael Grubbs featured plenty of music and several laughs as friends and family recalled his off-kilter sense of humor and genuine way with people.
Grubbs probably would've wanted such a memorial, based on the recollections of those who filled Ashland's First United Methodist Church on Saturday. Hundreds of community members also attended the gathering to show their support for the family."
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111127/NEWS/111270330/1001/NEWS03
"The memorial service for David Michael Grubbs featured plenty of music and several laughs as friends and family recalled his off-kilter sense of humor and genuine way with people.
Grubbs probably would've wanted such a memorial, based on the recollections of those who filled Ashland's First United Methodist Church on Saturday. Hundreds of community members also attended the gathering to show their support for the family."
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111127/NEWS/111270330/1001/NEWS03
pdxmama
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Thank you for this thoughtful post and I am so sorry for the loss of you friend. Your words are a good reminder of how what we say on these boards can affect innocent people and we should always be wary of that.
My family and I travel to Ashland at least once a year for the Shakespeare Festival and it is one of my very favorite places. I hope that whomever did this is caught quickly so that Ashland and its residents can have a little bit of peace back.
Snoopster
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Snoopster
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gooniequeen
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My understanding is the bike path is very well traveled.
I also understand that David was a "big" kid 6 foot something. Young and fit.
If we go on the premise that this was a random thrill kill - why pick a big strapping man? Why not a small woman on a bike, or an older gentleman or young teen walking who surely would have come by in due time.
I also understand that David was a "big" kid 6 foot something. Young and fit.
If we go on the premise that this was a random thrill kill - why pick a big strapping man? Why not a small woman on a bike, or an older gentleman or young teen walking who surely would have come by in due time.
gooniequeen
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same article Snoopster posted above;
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111130/NEWS/111300325/-1/NEWSMAP
"We withhold information for a couple of reasons," he said. (police chief)
Withholding telling details helps police ensure witnesses are legitimate, he said, and not just repeating what they heard somewhere else.
He said empathy for a victim's family is another reason police wait to release some of the details. (????)
Holderness addressed the possibility of the attack being related to a gang initiation. He said, it is unlikely, but that police have not ruled it out.
http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111130/NEWS/111300325/-1/NEWSMAP
"We withhold information for a couple of reasons," he said. (police chief)
Withholding telling details helps police ensure witnesses are legitimate, he said, and not just repeating what they heard somewhere else.
He said empathy for a victim's family is another reason police wait to release some of the details. (????)
Holderness addressed the possibility of the attack being related to a gang initiation. He said, it is unlikely, but that police have not ruled it out.
gooniequeen
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Victim of homicidal violence found on Oregon City bike path
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pb...107/111300384/1009/NEWS01&nav_category=NEWS01
http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pb...107/111300384/1009/NEWS01&nav_category=NEWS01
I went the meeting last night. It was packed. Afterwards I asked one of the officers if the forensic expert who's being flown in would be looking at the hack marks on the nearby tree trunks and he said, yes, they are looking at those.
There's quite a few -- at least 5 trees right on that stretch of the bike path have been hacked. If they are connected to the murder, it looks for all the world like the person who made them was just swinging at them for "fun" for lack of a better word.
I also asked if they had cleared JT and I was told that he is a person of interest in the broad sense, although not at this point a suspect. He has been around --and in fact the officer said he saw him yesterday around the police station -- but this officer did not know what sort of questioning of him had or had not happened yet. But at least he's on the their radar. He didn't know that JT had been completely and definitively cleared, but said he was just a person of interest and not a suspect at this time.
Thinking about the crime, though, David Grubbs was quite tall and JT is very short -- I'm not sure this specific attack would have been easy for a very small guy like Thiry. Although it's hard to say what someone in the grips of mental illness like his is thinking.
Anyway, it seems he's not at the top of the list.
There was quite a bit of talk about victimology and who David might have encountered online or in gaming circles -- but even that was just more exploring all options. They don't seem like they have much of anything to go on. It's all about tips and leads coming in at this point -- I hope they get more.
It was a fairly well-handled meeting, and reassuring to see the resources they're putting into this. The police chief and the mayor, however, both said people are hearing a lot about the investigation now because the crime is recent, but if it's not solved soon, we all should expect at some point in the not-too-distant future to be hearing less as the investigation switches into slower, more long-term process. They don't have the resources to have such a huge number of people on the case in this intense round-the-clock way for very long.
There's quite a few -- at least 5 trees right on that stretch of the bike path have been hacked. If they are connected to the murder, it looks for all the world like the person who made them was just swinging at them for "fun" for lack of a better word.
I also asked if they had cleared JT and I was told that he is a person of interest in the broad sense, although not at this point a suspect. He has been around --and in fact the officer said he saw him yesterday around the police station -- but this officer did not know what sort of questioning of him had or had not happened yet. But at least he's on the their radar. He didn't know that JT had been completely and definitively cleared, but said he was just a person of interest and not a suspect at this time.
Thinking about the crime, though, David Grubbs was quite tall and JT is very short -- I'm not sure this specific attack would have been easy for a very small guy like Thiry. Although it's hard to say what someone in the grips of mental illness like his is thinking.
Anyway, it seems he's not at the top of the list.
There was quite a bit of talk about victimology and who David might have encountered online or in gaming circles -- but even that was just more exploring all options. They don't seem like they have much of anything to go on. It's all about tips and leads coming in at this point -- I hope they get more.
It was a fairly well-handled meeting, and reassuring to see the resources they're putting into this. The police chief and the mayor, however, both said people are hearing a lot about the investigation now because the crime is recent, but if it's not solved soon, we all should expect at some point in the not-too-distant future to be hearing less as the investigation switches into slower, more long-term process. They don't have the resources to have such a huge number of people on the case in this intense round-the-clock way for very long.
gooniequeen
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My good friend who lives in Ashland attended as well and their take is very similar to yours Manzanita - the scariest part is realizing that they don't seem to really have anything. (if you want to believe that)
They echo yours and other locals feeling that JT most likely wasn't physically capable of such an act or mentally capable of hiding it. However I can tell you I've had my ear to the scanner for the past 48 hours and lots of calls regarding JT (last night by the chamber of commerce when the meeting was going on and again about an hour ago). I am chalking it up to people in town just being scared $4!tless.
I believe the expert they may be bringing in from PA is Dr. Steven Symes http://www.symesforensics.com/
I know so little about forensics other than dabbling on WS for the past several years. Does anyone know what a forensic anthropologist will be looking for or able to determine?
Weapon type
handedness of attacker
height of attacker
possible age (based on height and strength)
level of rage (was it personal or psychotic)
I do believe they may actually have footprints in light of the fact they denied being able to answer that. so perhaps a shoe size will also help with a more accurate description and ability to somewhat limit who they are looking for.
Any "experts" out there I would welcome your thoughts on this.
They echo yours and other locals feeling that JT most likely wasn't physically capable of such an act or mentally capable of hiding it. However I can tell you I've had my ear to the scanner for the past 48 hours and lots of calls regarding JT (last night by the chamber of commerce when the meeting was going on and again about an hour ago). I am chalking it up to people in town just being scared $4!tless.
I believe the expert they may be bringing in from PA is Dr. Steven Symes http://www.symesforensics.com/
I know so little about forensics other than dabbling on WS for the past several years. Does anyone know what a forensic anthropologist will be looking for or able to determine?
Weapon type
handedness of attacker
height of attacker
possible age (based on height and strength)
level of rage (was it personal or psychotic)
I do believe they may actually have footprints in light of the fact they denied being able to answer that. so perhaps a shoe size will also help with a more accurate description and ability to somewhat limit who they are looking for.
Any "experts" out there I would welcome your thoughts on this.
Hi Everyone -
I know we have many locals on this thread and that you are familiar with the area. JT's name keeps popping up, but I have not seen it in the MSM or in any LE reports. Does anyone have a link to where he was mentioned in MSM?
Also, any locals that wish to be verified can do so by sending an email to: wsverify@xmission.com
Please include your name, username, this case and that you would like to be verified as a local. One of our Admin will contact you. All information will be kept strictly confidential but this will allow other posters to know that you do indeed live in the area and are familiar with the locations and happenings.
Thanks!
Salem
I know we have many locals on this thread and that you are familiar with the area. JT's name keeps popping up, but I have not seen it in the MSM or in any LE reports. Does anyone have a link to where he was mentioned in MSM?
Also, any locals that wish to be verified can do so by sending an email to: wsverify@xmission.com
Please include your name, username, this case and that you would like to be verified as a local. One of our Admin will contact you. All information will be kept strictly confidential but this will allow other posters to know that you do indeed live in the area and are familiar with the locations and happenings.
Thanks!
Salem