OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - #17

[cluciano63]

I am a big supporter of LE, even in cases where others here have taken up against them, BUT...I am beginning to feel that unless they are following up on a specific person right now, that they need to be a little more open with the public. I don't see how it can jeopordize a case against an offender to clear up a few facts, if they in fact have no idea who the offender is. I know, I know, everyone keeps saying they don't want the perp to know what they know...but not sure how it helps perp/hurts LE to indicate once and for all, what time Kyron was last seen (if they know); if it was by someone other than stepmother; and why they keep calling this an "isolated case." Any whatever else they could clear up without affecting the case.

I have assumed since Sunday that they have been following a specfic trail leading to a specific unknown perp, but the more time goes by, I am almost back to thinking they do not have a plan or a suspect/POI. And if this is true, and the silence continues to deafen us, the case will grow cold, no matter what they say. JMO

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Y'all don't want me to relay the nightmare Princess PeePee just relayed. Suffice to say that discussing stranger danger with your child isn't nearly enough. Establishing defensive moves is also necessary.

Now I'd like to go cry because her nightmare has been my nightmare since it nearly happened to me when I was her age. CRIMINY!!!

BBM - Exactly!

I tell my kids all the time to fight, kick, scream, spit, bite, run, grab something big like a trash can and don't let go.

Someone asks for directions? The response is, Sorry I don't know where that is, you keep your distance and you keep walking.

Did you ever see on one of those 20/20 type shows a segment about the girl who was abducted for some time and then set free? The man simply pulled into a driveway in front of her while she was walking on the sidewalk, rolled down his passenger window and quietly pretended to ask for directions. When she peeked her head into the car to hear him better he grabbed her and pulled her whole body into the car. Think about how easy that was for him!

That one had me shuddering for weeks.

 

[DidionFan]

Good morning - hoping for break throughs today, and that Kyron will be found.

That said, I am pretty heavy hearted - Hope it's okay I let go here for a moment. I am staying positive as much as possible, but with the timeline, it is getting harder and harder to feel they are looking for Kyron alive. I am only a couple of days as a member here at WS, so I hope to not deflate by posting something so negative, but over the last 2 days, I can't stop thinking about the presser where LE gets emotional, hiding tears, voice cracking (was it the first one or the second one?). Something seems to be clicking in my deductions that since that moment, some tip must have come about to make this an "isolated incident" potentially with an idea of Kyron's fate, and therefore difficult for the parents to come forward with a plea for help without giving anything away to a potential person of interest. Like, LE had an idea even then of who would lure Kyron out of the school, and that the outcome is grim. I can only imagine how hard it would be if it was likely that my child was perhaps dead and I had to put on a face to the community asking for their hopes and prayers, how impossible it would be without losing it or giving an emotion away that could defeat their investigation.

I feel awful, but I do very much now think that an RSO is involved, someone who fits an "earn trust of victim" MO, and that he either somehow got into contact with this family or the school, and found his opportunity on the day of the fair. Maybe he's never killed, but I am sure LE checked all local RSO's ASAP in this case. Maybe someone seemed highly suspicious, but denying involvement, and in the early stages, LE hoped Kyron was still alive, perhaps hidden, and if they gave appearance of believing the RSO in the hopes of gleaning more information to get the perp, they could save Kyron.

But that emotional presser seems to me that they were pretty concerned and fearful that a bad person had done something bad, and now they have to keep on with the search and get more tips to pressure the guy to reveal something.

Just thoughts. There's so much speculation out there right now on the webs, especially with the localized Sauvie's Island search - a place I was going to take my parents when they visit next weekend until all this started - that some theories and non-WS postings have gotten me thinking that LE has to be following some lead, and it most likely is something that didn't add up when questioning an RSO. Maybe LE felt comfortable letting the kids back the following Monday because someone was being held for questioning.

Who knows!

All I know is that I HOPE I am wrong. I am so horrified by so many of the crimes I hear about, and who ends up being responsible is often devastating. Loving Portland as I do, this child is a child of all of Portland right now, and frankly, I pray that he is returned alive and well and able to continue his life with the beautiful energy we have come to love about him. But I am entering a preparation phase because actions over the last few days by LE do lead me to believe that Sauvie's Island cannot be a mere wild goose chase....someone has raised their concerns, in my opinion.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

but the more time goes by, I am almost back to thinking they do not have a plan or a suspect/POI. And if this is true, and the silence continues to deafen us, the case will grow cold, no matter what they say. JMO

I am worried that the case is already cold. I hope I am wrong, of course, but the long lead time the perp had gave the perp the advantage. The child thief could be anywhere by now, in another state or even in Canada. Someone, somewhere, could have noticed that a person was acting a bit strangely and not associate it with Kyron because LE appears to be acting locally.

OTOH,maybe LE does have a viable suspect and that person is still in the area.

I don't think that the perp is one of the parents or stepparents because, correct me if I'm wrong, LE is always with them. It doesn't seem that any of them have the opportunity to do anything to further hide his/her/their crime.

OTOH, maybe LE does suspect one of them, and is looking for Kyron locally because of that. It just doesn't make sense that LE would be so closely associated with them that, if the perp were among them, LE would not let the perp alone long enough for s/he to do something incriminating while LE had them under secret surveillance.

Basically, anyone who suspects one of the parents is just whistling in the wind. From everything I've read, there is nothing to point to one of the parents. The perp could literally be anyone who was in the vicinity of the school on that fateful morning. I sometimes vacillate about suspecting one of the parents, because there are so many cases in which a parent was the perp. I hope it isn't true in this case, and meanwhile I have no strong reason for suspecting these particular parents.

In essence, I am afraid the case has gone cold. I very much want to be wrong. I very much hope LE has strong leads and a viable suspect, and that Kyron is alive.

 

[swa]

Exactly debs, all the more troubling to me why the SM would leave the home where Kyron quite possibly could return to if he wandered away from the school alone earlier in the day. Honestly, someone else could have been at the home waiting for Kyron, but why would LE instruct one of the parents to return there in case Kyron showed up?

I don't know, just one thing to think about while waiting for some news. JMO

Sometimes when someone plans out the "perfect crime" in their heads -- the one thing they can't plan out is how to properly act after the fact. (Because it's the one part they couldn't rehearse)

It's also hard for them to act correctly because they already know the outcome.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Ya see, folks, it's not just ONE THING for me here. So many things are off in my opinion.

Even the fact that LE is remaining quiet on this further bolsters my opinion.

I'll be quiet now.

 

[tlcya]

I cannot even imagine dealing with the soft words, gentle touches and tearful, well-meaning hugs of folks at a time like that. Each small kindness would make me break down. Emotionally, I just could not handle that. Some folks need to withdraw a bit from that sort of outpouring else they would fall apart. Have you ever felt so raw and scared and hurt and helpless that you feared if you started crying you wouldn't stop? If you let yourself break, even a little, you would literally have a mental breakdown? People react diferently to such a circumstance. Sometimes, the emotion is just plain too raw, too near the surface to deal with.

Add to that people you don't even know all over teh nation pointing and staring and speculating that you have done something wrong. These are regular people, not celebrities. They are not accustomed to being in the media spotlight and under that sort of microspoce.

Whatever the reason they needed a quiet space to retire to during the vigil. I do not fault them for that. I pray for them.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I am still boggled as to why LE hasn't said in a statement that the parents are ruled out if they are indeed ruled out. It would really help the public help them find this child if it is true.

They haven't ruled out the bio-mom and stepdad, either. Even though they were 275 miles away and it would seem easy to establish enough alibi to rule out having made that drive.

In other high profile cases, the family is never officially ruled out except via the arrest of the perpetrator (Somer Thompson, for instance).

I don't even remember if the Walshes were ever officially ruled out in the matter of Adam Walsh's abduction. And I clearly remember the accusations, threats and sheer hatred directed at Reve Walsh (I can't make my computer do the accent over the second e in Ms Walsh's name, sorry).

One reason not to rule anyone in or out is that they are leaving room for the perpetrator to give away information they shouldn't have. Or things that are just plain weird. Maybe even for the perpetrator to insert themselves into the investigation by providing a false siting of the SM that would decisively rule her in or out.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I can understand. Some people are not comfortable sharing their grief with strangers. Motive? I think that's a bit ironic. Just witness how their every move, word and expression is picked apart here and elsewhere.


I don't know if it's a 'southern thing' but the funeral homes down here have separate rooms with privacy louvers (not sure how else to describe them) where immediate family (or anyone, I suppose) can view the service without being front and center in the chapel. That's the first thing I thought of when I read this.

I don't find it odd at all. I am sure all the family members didn't want the vigil to be about them but only about Kyron.

I am from the south too Calliope and I thought about that when I first read it.

I just don't think at this time these parents can please some no matter what they do or don't do.

IMO

 

[BeanE]

It actually just says that they've told the parents that one needs to be home. Dad might have been at work or en route...it's not specific, and I had apologized way back for incorrectly reading the scanner chatter to mean both parents were at the school.

By the way, my son was in kindergarten and I was late to the stop. The driver (great guy) wouldn't drop him without me there and so took him to the next school ( he was done with my son's route and up the street was the next school). Both bus companies (kyron's and son's) are First Student, and their policy is not to leave little kids (up to I don't know what grade) at a stop without a parent. He radioed the bus company who called both schools, and the school called me. That's the policy, so I think that bus driver probably radioed in when SM found Kyron not to be there. It's also on the scanner saying that the school called police, so that points further to the bus calling in and school calling LE.

Ok...I'm up earlier than usual after a big night of pierogis so I'm going to have coffee and try to get used to this thing people call "morning"...

Thanks krazy. Calliope found the transcript and I read it again and you're right. It doesn't specify that dad was at the school.

I read that as 'piercings' vs pierogis...

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Come home Kyron. :rose:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They haven't ruled out the bio-mom and stepdad, either. Even though they were 275 miles away and it would seem easy to establish enough alibi to rule out having made that drive.

In other high profile cases, the family is never officially ruled out except via the arrest of the perpetrator (Somer Thompson, for instance).

I don't even remember if the Walshes were ever officially ruled out in the matter of Adam Walsh's abduction. And I clearly remember the accusations, threats and sheer hatred directed at Reve Walsh (I can't make my computer do the accent over the second e in Ms Walsh's name, sorry).

One reason not to rule anyone in or out is that they are leaving room for the perpetrator to give away information they shouldn't have. Or things that are just plain weird. Maybe even for the perpetrator to insert themselves into the investigation by providing a false siting of the SM that would decisively rule her in or out.

Exactly. I don't know why some are so concentrated on the step mom being ruled out when no one has been ruled out and I highly doubt that some think all four parents are involved.

I never remember LE coming out and ruling the Walsh parents out and I don't even remember them doing so in Paulie Klass' case even though Mark Klass said later that he had taken a poly and passed but I don't even think LE revealed that at the time when they had not found the real suspect.

I know they didn't do it in the Lunsford or Greone case either.

IMO

 

[Astrella613]

I think different people have different reactions in emergency situations.

If it were my child, the very first thing I'd do is dash to the place of the last confirmed siting of my child. And I'd probably do something stupid like leave my cell phone and purse behind!

I would figure that if my child came home while I was gone s/he would have the sense to sit on the front porch step and wait for me.

In the Riley Fox case, when her brother woke her father up to tell him Riley was missing, Kevin Fox's immediate reaction was to search outside for approximately 40 minutes. This was seen as highly suspicious... but they have since arrested a suspect based on DNA evidence. So Kevin Fox's reaction was just his normal, individual reaction in an emergency, not indicating guilt at all.

When my daughter was three, I was working and I had her in a nursery school that was about five blocks from my house. At the time I didn't have a car so I would walk there to drop her off and pick her up after work. They decided to get a bus service, so I signed her up for one way drop off to see how it would work. She was supposed to get dropped off at 4:30. I was waiting outside, in the days before cell phones. 4:45 not there, I run back in the house and call the school, they tell me it's the first day and bus driver has to get used to the addresses. Well to make this short, by 5:30 she still was not there. I was flipping out, wanting to run over to the school so badly but knowing that I couldn't as I had to wait for the bus. Kept running back home to call school and decided if she wasn't there by 6, I was going to call the police. Finally they dropped her off a few minutes before 6, thankfully and she seemed just fine. Needless to say that was her last day on the bus. What a nightmare, I can't even imagine what the family is going through.

 

[BeanE]

I'm finding many things about this case just odd.

Vigil a symbol of hope for Kyron’s safe return

Kyron’s parents and stepparents watched the vigil from a private room.

:waitasec:

I cannot even imagine what the motive could be to not want to be surrounded by and touched by people who have their beautiful son in their hearts.

I would think probably safety. If I were experiencing the vehemence the stepmother is right now, and I were any of the four of them, I would definitely avoid crowds and situations in which I were not physically protected, particularly if I had other children to take care of.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

IIRC the last they stated was that it was not a stranger abduction.

Do you have a link where LE said that Ellie? I must have missed that.

I know recently LE said they are not ruling out an abduction. There was a link to that on the last thread somewhere.

IMO

 

[Jules_SA]

My personal opinions on this case swing from the far left to the far right as I read the few facts that we have confirmed. I accept that LE owes us, Joe Public, absolutely nothing ito information, especially when they know that it could jeaopardize the case. But I feel positively Bipolar the way my opinion keeps swinging like a pendulum from one possibility to another on the opposite side.

We KNOW it's a CONFIRMED isolated incident and we KNOW LE said they didn't suspect it was a stranger abduction. But that grey area in between is driving me nuts.

Hands up any of those who feel completely frustrated by this case. Because, at the end of the day, Kyron is still missing. And nobody (that matters anyway) knows where he is.

 

[DidionFan]

I'm finding many things about this case just odd.

Vigil a symbol of hope for Kyron’s safe return

Kyron’s parents and stepparents watched the vigil from a private room.

:waitasec:

I cannot even imagine what the motive could be to not want to be surrounded by and touched by people who have their beautiful son in their hearts.

I know I just wrote an earful - and I haven't participated in this forum for long and am not familiar with what may be textbook - but, if LE had some ideas about a grim outcome and leads, wouldn't they share it to some extent with Kyron's parents? Imagine a room of love and hope when you are being told it is very likely its a recovery search? The public doesn't know what family may know, and bless them and us, we are all hoping for the best. We want what they want, Kyron back in his family's arms. But...it is quite possible that LE has told them it is not going to happen. That would be an emotion that would be really obvious in a room of a prayerful, hopeful people, maybe too much to bare or contain - like, I'd burst and freak out, I think and reveal what I've been told and need to world to help me in my grief.

I've gone all over this in terms of who I thought was responsible, including strong suspicions about the family, based on statistics, rumors, comments...and now, I am just incredibly sad for this family. Kyrons science fair project looked like the snazziest most special one in the room, and I think a lot of love and effort went into making him feel like a star that day, for pure, loving reasons....I think they know why they have stayed out of the spotlight, and I am learning to trust that, along with LE and the small amount of released information...

 

[GrainneDhu]

I cannot even imagine what the motive could be to not want to be surrounded by and touched by people who have their beautiful son in their hearts.

Different people are different.

I wouldn't appear at the vigil if Kyron were my son, either. I am an introvert and fairly shy. I hate crowds at the best of times, I avoid gatherings like the plague and find the company of strangers draining rather than invigorating.

I know myself--if the tears once welled up, I'd start crying. And then I'd sob and wail. And then my nose would run copiously and forget kleenex, I'd need a towel to wipe my face. It's humiliating to be so old and out of control but over fifty years of trying to change hasn't worked yet.

So I would have chosen the private room as well. And I can guarantee I had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance!

 

[seeking truth]

This can NOT be the same white truck seen around 3p the day he went missing & again around 2a (by Mr. Kelly) cos neither parent would've been able to get away
at that later time with LE around..I assume they were still present at their home for obvious reasons..It still does not change my opinion tho that possibly the perp scouted out that area for a later 'dump' site..It does, however, change whatever opinion I may have re: WHO the perp is cos I'm not ready yet to believe the suspicious actions of this white truck are meaningless to the case.

BBM.

Does anyone know what time the bus stopped at Kyron's house that afternoon?

Apologies up front, but I don't remember WHERE the white truck was seen.

If anyone could point me to that information I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Different people are different.

I wouldn't appear at the vigil if Kyron were my son, either. I am an introvert and fairly shy. I hate crowds at the best of times, I avoid gatherings like the plague and find the company of strangers draining rather than invigorating.

I know myself--if the tears once welled up, I'd start crying. And then I'd sob and wail. And then my nose would run copiously and forget kleenex, I'd need a towel to wipe my face. It's humiliating to be so old and out of control but over fifty years of trying to change hasn't worked yet.

So I would have chosen the private room as well. And I can guarantee I had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance!

And I believe that is why John Walsh stressed he does not judge these parents and he has dealt with thousands of parents who have/had missing children and not all of them grieve the same way nor do they know how to handle the media onslaught.

Many of them have never stepped before a camera imo, yet their grief is just as profound as those who do.

IMO