OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #13

[GourmetSoy]

I seemed to have missed a whole bunch of info over the past 2 days.
I've tried to skim, but wow, I've missed a lot.

I have a general question. I have seen several posts that say the poster thinks a confession is coming soon and we will all be shocked by who did this.
Is this coming from info that has been learned recently? Is there some knowledge by a few members that that rest of us don't know?

Or, are these just general statements of theories or opinions?

Can any of those who think there will be a confession and we will be shocked let us know what their theories are?

TIA

General statement/theory IIRC. Was a tad confusing though, I agree.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Lastly they shouldn't even have an automatic dialing system, it should be a real live person calling the parents anyways...

How much are you willing to pay for that?

I know my local school doesn't have an automated dialler system. Nor do they have security guards or surveillance cameras. As a local taxpayer, I'd rather my tax dollars went into things that made a real difference for the students--like funding more computer ed, more enrichment activities like art and music, even better school lunches!

The number of children disappearing from elementary schools is tiny. Yes, obviously it is a non-zero risk but it is still a very, very tiny risk. The children attending that school were much more likely to be killed in a car crash than to be abducted.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to weigh the economic outlay versus the risks to students but until we get there, we do have to do such cost/benefit analyses.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

As to the "isolated event" remark; it led me to believe it was not a pedophile as we know they cannot be rehabilitated and will strike again when possible. That's what confuses me.

Well that is even scarier imo.

In the Greone case they thought it was an isolated incident too and whomever had murdered the family and kidnapped Shasta and Dylan was probably by someone known to them.

Boy did they ever get that wrong! Dylan and Shasta both were with a sick and sadistic pedophile monster from hell whom they didn't know.

IMO

 

[mamaeb]

They do have an auto dialing system. They used it to alert parents that Kyron was missing and to establish appointments for Sunday interviews. My guess is that the teacher thought that Kyron had disappeared with no explanation, she would have panicked and calls would have ensued.

Let me ask you this... if the person responsible for the child told the teacher that the child had an appointment, then maybe the school would not have done anything wrong, do you think? I don't think calls would be made home for excused absences, or explained absences.

ETA: WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS!!!

I agree... they have not yet confirmed what happened that morning. So we can't really judge or know yet what was going on with teachers and reporting him not there.

He could have been absent with the teachers not knowing why and they failed to report it.
...or he could have been seen leaving with a parent.

....Or possibly a parent had said he would not be there, that he had an appointment

There are a handful of different versions that have not yet been confirmed by LE yet.

 

[TXHOPE]

OK I am leanng towards someone that was familiar with the school as a peripheral player or not directly associated with Kyron. By that I mean a groundskeeper or other personnel that may not be a trusted figure, but at least a familiar one. Same with a relative that may not be oncampus often but has been there.

I have not ruled out a total stranger. By virtue of the fact that Kyron was not reported as particularly assertive but rather was shy and friendly coupled with his love of frogs which was telegraphed to the attendees, he could have been an easy mark to trick.
I am feeling more and more as though this was a crime of opportunity and he was simply walked off the grounds.

I would be curious to see attendance records of anyone that works at the school and as someone said a re-creation of the event. Unfortunately, I do not think there would be clear records as to who was in attendance.

JMHO of course.

I completely agree but I also think a parent of another child that attends the school could also be a possibility. Many parents were there that day due to the science fair, talent show and when I think of who a 7 year old would trust, another parent comes to mind.

 

[pufnstuf]

Has something changed from the last two days when we were instructed by mods to no longer discuss the RUMOR about the appointment? I have been busy 'visiting' a lot today and may have missed the LE announcement confirming that information.......

I wasn't discussing any rumor. I was postulating a hypothetical situation.

 

[john's mom]

:Welcome-12-june::grouphug:

I lay some blame at the school. I do not doubt teachers and staff members are all dedicated educators but the fact remains they failed to follow protocol. And they knew they didn't have an automatic dialing system in place for absenteeism. High Schoolers skip all the time, but this is an elementary school. From homeroom teacher (be it substitute or not), to the rest of his classes, none of his teachers notified anybody except just marking him for being absent that day. Lastly they shouldn't even have an automatic dialing system, it should be a real live person calling the parents anyways...

I'm giving the SM the benefit of the doubt. I'm following the 'Forensic Astrology' thread with curiousity. How come there isn't a 'Forensic Psychic' thread???

And where's my official Websleuths welcome anyhoo? I registered because I got sick and tired of personal attacks, posts getting deleted at local newspaper & tv website postings. I need a hug!

 

[JBean]

Well that is even scarier imo.

In the Greone case they thought it was an isolated incident too and whomever had murdered the family and kidnapped Shasta and Dylan was probably by someone known to them.

Boy did they ever get that wrong! Dylan and Shasta both were with a sick and sadistic pedophile monster from hell whom they didn't know.

IMO

I think this was also done in the Husted case. It was characterized as a targeted isolated case and the members of the community were told to be careful, but they did not feel there was a threat.
However, while they have caught the murderer, thank God, they still cannot link him to the Husteds as far as I know. IOW, it was a robbery and he killed the pregnant mother,the father and the young kids were witness to parts of it.
IMO, that neighborhood should have been on high alert. I often wonder if it is mass hysteria they are trying to head off? or what goes into those types of determinations.

 

[JBean]

I completely agree but I also think a parent of another child that attends the school could also be a possibility. Many parents were there that day due to the science fair, talent show and when I think of who a 7 year old would trust, another parent comes to mind.

I concur

 

[mom_of_five]

I seemed to have missed a whole bunch of info over the past 2 days.
I've tried to skim, but wow, I've missed a lot.

I have a general question. I have seen several posts that say the poster thinks a confession is coming soon and we will all be shocked by who did this.
Is this coming from info that has been learned recently? Is there some knowledge by a few members that that rest of us don't know?

Or, are these just general statements of theories or opinions?

Can any of those who think there will be a confession and we will be shocked let us know what their theories are?

TIA

It is my understanding that they are stating theories/opinions, and some of those theories/opinions cannot be posted due to TOS. Hope that helped .

 

[BeanE]

I agree, Bee. I think that the sheriff may have been so somber today because some kind of evidence was found this morning.

JMO

I don't think anything happened for this, and surely not today. I think this was a natural progression, and as the said, they talked to the family yesterday for some time, to tell them this was the next step.

 

[mamaeb]

Today was the first day authorities allowed reporters access to the base, though they barred any questions about logistics of the search or the ongoing investigation into Kyron's June 4 disappearance from Skyline School

Searchers have set up at a base camp off Northwest Quarry Road.

Authorities cut off community donations to help feed and otherwise sustain the searchers because of the overwhelming response.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_searchers_exhaust.html

 

[LimeCola]

I think this was also done in the Husted case. It was characterized as a targeted isolated case and the members of the community were told to be careful, but they did not feel there was a threat.
However, while they have caught the murderer, thank God, they still cannot link him to the Husteds as far as I know. IOW, it was a robbery and he killed the pregnant mother,the father and the young kids were witness to parts of it.
IMO, that neighborhood should have been on high alert. I often wonder if it is mass hysteria they are trying to head off? or what goes into those types of determinations.

JBean, I think the same thing happened in the Victoria Stafford case. There seem to be many similarities between these cases so far. When Victoria went missing from the school property, IIRC the police called it an "isolated incident". I believe from the start they felt that family was involved.

While we don't have all the details yet (still awaiting trial), the two accused of kidnapping and murdering Victoria were not family members at all. It appears to have been a crime of opportunity.

LE might think they known what the situation is going into a search, but sometimes even they can be wrong.

 

[ralph_wiggum]

They do have an auto dialing system. They used it to alert parents that Kyron was missing and to establish appointments for Sunday interviews. My guess is that the teacher thought that Kyron had disappeared with no explanation, she would have panicked and calls would have ensued.

Let me ask you this... if the person responsible for the child told the teacher that the child had an appointment, then maybe the school would not have done anything wrong, do you think? I don't think calls would be made home for excused absences, or explained absences.

ETA: WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS!!!

thank you and everyone for the welcome and the hugs! :blushingsmiley:

here's an early oregonlive.com [click for source] story published June 6, 2010:

"Until now, Skyline School officials did not generally call home concerning absences, said Portland schools spokesman Matt Shelby.

"It's a really small school," Shelby said. "They know their students and usually they know the reason for the absence."

Personal calls for parental notification will be used until the automated system is in place at Skyline, which will likely take about a week, Smith said.

Currently, 37 out of 57 elementary and K-8 schools in the district use the dialing system, which is already in use at all of the district's middle and high schools.

Shelby said the automated dialer system was first primarily used for truancy, which typically is not a significant problem at elementary and K-8 schools."

 

[cj1132]

I seemed to have missed a whole bunch of info over the past 2 days.
I've tried to skim, but wow, I've missed a lot.

I have a general question. I have seen several posts that say the poster thinks a confession is coming soon and we will all be shocked by who did this.
Is this coming from info that has been learned recently? Is there some knowledge by a few members that that rest of us don't know?

Or, are these just general statements of theories or opinions?

Can any of those who think there will be a confession and we will be shocked let us know what their theories are?

TIA

Please see my post #16. I should have been clearer but just as I was ready to edit a little, my son and his girlfriend stopped in.

 

[momtective]

I lay some blame at the school. I do not doubt teachers and staff members are all dedicated educators but the fact remains they failed to follow protocol. And they knew they didn't have an automatic dialing system in place for absenteeism. High Schoolers skip all the time, but this is an elementary school. From homeroom teacher (be it substitute or not), to the rest of his classes, none of his teachers notified anybody except just marking him for being absent that day. Lastly they shouldn't even have an automatic dialing system, it should be a real live person calling the parents anyways...

I'm giving the SM the benefit of the doubt. I'm following the 'Forensic Astrology' thread with curiousity. How come there isn't a 'Forensic Psychic' thread???

And where's my official Websleuths welcome anyhoo? I registered because I got sick and tired of personal attacks, posts getting deleted at local newspaper & tv website postings. I need a hug!

Welcome to WS

RW!:dance:​

 

[Calliope]

They do have an auto dialing system. They used it to alert parents that Kyron was missing and to establish appointments for Sunday interviews

<snip>

It was revealed early on the school doesn't have an auto-dialing system for absentees. I saw where there was a reverse 911 call that went out to alert locals of his disappearance, that would have come from LE; as far as calls to parents for interviews, were those made through the school itself or the main district office?

 

[anyoldtime48]

It is hard to discern what LE actually means when they use the wordage of "isolated event." I have seen it used by other LE in other cases and the kidnapper/ murderer turned out to be a complete stranger. Sara Walker's case is one example yet when they did finally arrest the person who murdered her he did not know her at all. I think sometimes its to calm the fears of the community.

Perhaps LE in this case is using it because only Kyron was taken. The odds would be astronomical if the same perp came back to the same school and took another child. Imo, that would be unheard of with all the police presence there.

I have also seen them infer that the victims were targeted leaving the impression that it was someone known to the victims yet when the murderer was finally captured they did not know their victims at all.

So, imo, yes it can be a complete stranger. We like to think our children wouldn't go with a stranger but sadly that is not true all the time even though they have been taught at home and school about stranger danger. Just look at the various shows we have seen on TV that shows how easily a stranger can take a young child's hand and walk away with them. Oprah has had such shows. All the perp had to do is say is "your mommy has been hurt in a car wreck and told me to come get you and we have to leave now." (example)

Little children are still trusting of adults and want to please them especially if Kyron encountered such an adult at school. I think Kyron had a good home life and wasnt fearful of adults so if one asked him to help him I believe Kyron would do it thinking there was no harm.

I also believe it is a possibility that whomever did this was someone Kyron was comfortable seeing around his school but I am leaning more to a stranger who came into town the day before the adduction or maybe even sooner and sized up the best way to get in and out of the school and which route to take once leaving.

IMO

OK I am leanng towards someone that was familiar with the school as a peripheral player or not directly associated with Kyron. By that I mean a groundskeeper or other personnel that may not be a trusted figure, but at least a familiar one. Same with a relative that may not be oncampus often but has been there.

I have not ruled out a total stranger. By virtue of the fact that Kyron was not reported as particularly assertive but rather was shy and friendly coupled with his love of frogs which was telegraphed to the attendees, he could have been an easy mark to trick.
I am feeling more and more as though this was a crime of opportunity and he was simply walked off the grounds.

I would be curious to see attendance records of anyone that works at the school and as someone said a re-creation of the event. Unfortunately, I do not think there would be clear records as to who was in attendance.

JMHO of course.

BBM
Yes indeedy, and therein lies both the problem and the opportunity. Media reports from the very first day stated the school was open to the public and normal sign-in type procedures would have been impossible for the school to implement (and therefore were not). No video surveillance either means LE really has no idea who came and went that day if they were not a student, educator or perhaps a volunteer, and OFFERED that information to LE.

Perp here, if a total stranger, would surely be unlikely to be forthcoming.

 

[Deeemdee]

They do have an auto dialing system. They used it to alert parents that Kyron was missing and to establish appointments for Sunday interviews. My guess is that the teacher thought that Kyron had disappeared with no explanation, she would have panicked and calls would have ensued.

In response to Kyron Horman's Friday disappearance from Skyline School, all K-8 schools within Portland Public Schools will start using automated dialer systems to notify parents when students are absent without preapproval, Superintendent Carole Smith announced Sunday.

She also said two additional school resource officers would be assigned to help monitor Skyline's security starting Monday.

Until now, Skyline School officials did not generally call home concerning absences, said Portland schools spokesman Matt Shelby.

"It's a really small school," Shelby said. "They know their students and usually they know the reason for the absence."

Personal calls for parental notification will be used until the automated system is in place at Skyline, which will likely take about a week, Smith said.

Currently, 37 out of 57 elementary and K-8 schools in the district use the dialing system, which is already in use at all of the district's middle and high schools.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/portland_superintendent_carole_2.html

 

[raeann]

How much are you willing to pay for that?

I know my local school doesn't have an automated dialler system. Nor do they have security guards or surveillance cameras. As a local taxpayer, I'd rather my tax dollars went into things that made a real difference for the students--like funding more computer ed, more enrichment activities like art and music, even better school lunches!

The number of children disappearing from elementary schools is tiny. Yes, obviously it is a non-zero risk but it is still a very, very tiny risk. The children attending that school were much more likely to be killed in a car crash than to be abducted.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have to weigh the economic outlay versus the risks to students but until we get there, we do have to do such cost/benefit analyses.

A calling system doesn't have to cost anything at all, it is an easy task for parent volunteers or even older students who are office aides. In a school of 275 students like this, with a absentee rate of about 20 per day as they had reported it to be, there would be just a handful of parents, if any, that forget to call in their child as absent. MAYBE 5 phone calls a day at most. All that is needed is that the school (not just this one, but ANY school) put the policy in place and educate parents about it by letter, school meetings, parent conferences, etc. Once parents know that it is REQUIRED that they call in, they will do so. Likewise, if they are informed that NO student leaves the building without being officially checked out through the office they will adapt to and follow that policy. The third step is that all absences are reported immediately to the school office for followup. NONE of these steps costs any money at all, it just involves a change of behavior that is not overly taxing on any of those involved.

jmoo