GUILTY OR - Mark Dribin, 42, Portland, 02 July 1999 *Christopher Charles Lovrien sentenced*

[Iluminada]

I guess that could go either way...hate crime or angry/jealous/jilted lover.

Blood spatter sounds like gunshot or perhaps beating. Which seems like someone dragged or carried him out, unless he was still alive and forced to walk out. If dragged or carried, a strong person or maybe it wasn't just one person.

LE must know what the possibilities are.

Bringing the idea of a strong person back. You're right Cazzie, this person had to be strong although Mark was not a large man, the guy still had to be capable of moving him to the vehicle. Good point. I would check someone at work who had to move boxes, packages, even suitcases at the airport. Someone would have to be strong to do that type of work.

We need more attention on this case. Can't wait for the radio show!!

 

[Iluminada]

You have to work with me. I'm just trying to imagine what could have happened to Mark. I have few clues. I'm wondering if LE has DNA from the house that they can't match until they get a perp. Mark must have faught back. If they have DNA, let's help figure out who the perp could be. I'm guessing Mark took the night off because he had someone important to meet up with. That means Mark knew the perp. It could be this man who no one seems to be able to identify. He never came forward after Mark went missing.

Whoever he was, he was brutal, organized after the killing and seems to be able to live with what he has done. I wonder if he went back to his regular schedule the next morning. It's possible he will do this again. He's someone who needs to be caught.

I'm thinking Mark had to take the day off to talk to him. Perhaps they met after the neighbors saw him and before he went to the bar. He didn't meet this person at the bar as far as we can see, so maybe he met this guy beforehand and went to the bar to relax, calm down. This guy could have followed Mark or perhaps he even had a key to Mark's place and waited for him to return and then attacked him. LE needs to look at people's schedules at work to see if they could match the movements of this man and the crime timeline. If this guy had a relationship with Mark and they were in Mark's home, there has to be DNA or fingerprints.

Please join the discussion about Mark's disappearance. It doesn't matter if we are wrong with our theories. But maybe we will come up with something that will help the police solve this case and finally give some closure to this family. It's not fair that someone would disappear someone else and the case goes unsolved. We are hearing this more and more. These people are becoming clever and we need to out fox them. Thanks everyone. Please participate in the discussion, the family is really needing your help.

 

[LinasK]

You have to work with me. I'm just trying to imagine what could have happened to Mark. I have few clues. I'm wondering if LE has DNA from the house that they can't match until they get a perp. Mark must have faught back. If they have DNA, let's help figure out who the perp could be. I'm guessing Mark took the night off because he had someone important to meet up with. That means Mark knew the perp. It could be this man who no one seems to be able to identify. He never came forward after Mark went missing.

Whoever he was, he was brutal, organized after the killing and seems to be able to live with what he has done. I wonder if he went back to his regular schedule the next morning. It's possible he will do this again. He's someone who needs to be caught.

I'm thinking Mark had to take the day off to talk to him. Perhaps they met after the neighbors saw him and before he went to the bar. He didn't meet this person at the bar as far as we can see, so maybe he met this guy beforehand and went to the bar to relax, calm down. This guy could have followed Mark or perhaps he even had a key to Mark's place and waited for him to return and then attacked him. LE needs to look at people's schedules at work to see if they could match the movements of this man and the crime timeline. If this guy had a relationship with Mark and they were in Mark's home, there has to be DNA or fingerprints.

Please join the discussion about Mark's disappearance. It doesn't matter if we are wrong with our theories. But maybe we will come up with something that will help the police solve this case and finally give some closure to this family. It's not fair that someone would disappear someone else and the case goes unsolved. We are hearing this more and more. These people are becoming clever and we need to out fox them. Thanks everyone. Please participate in the discussion, the family is really needing your help.

They do have unsourced DNA from the scene. Mark's parents confirmed for me that LE has Mark's DNA and theirs on file. Apparently the perp isn't entered in any national crime bank like CODIS, so probably this was his first crime.

 

[kemo]

We know nothing about this case. What we do not know is what Mark's friends told the Police. Obviously Mark had a circle of friends. He may have had a "lover", one or more "ex-lovers" and others who would know something about his life, his associates and whatever he had going on. If the results of the interviews with his friends is withheld from his family and the media, then there is absolutely nothing to even speculate about.

For whatever it is worth, the Eagle Bar was a "Leather Bar" at that time. Within the Gay Community, the Leather scene is a somewhat edgy S&M type subculture that a friend of mine described as: "99% play acting with just enough real danger to keep everyone interested".

While it is possible that he just had a "bad date", the fact that he took a day off for "personel reasons" and his body disappeared suggests that he knew his killer; in fact his killer was probably amonst his know circle of friends.

 

[Iluminada]

We know nothing about this case. What we do not know is what Mark's friends told the Police. Obviously Mark had a circle of friends. He may have had a "lover", one or more "ex-lovers" and others who would know something about his life, his associates and whatever he had going on. If the results of the interviews with his friends is withheld from his family and the media, then there is absolutely nothing to even speculate about.

For whatever it is worth, the Eagle Bar was a "Leather Bar" at that time. Within the Gay Community, the Leather scene is a somewhat edgy S&M type subculture that a friend of mine described as: "99% play acting with just enough real danger to keep everyone interested".

While it is possible that he just had a "bad date", the fact that he took a day off for "personel reasons" and his body disappeared suggests that he knew his killer; in fact his killer was probably amonst his know circle of friends.

First, thanks LinasK for that information on the DNA. Sounds like there is DNA, unmatched, and most likely fingerprints, unmatched, telling us that this guy is not in the system "yet". Again, I don't know how someone commits this type of brutal crime and is not known to the system or known to his "friends" in the Gay Community, Leather Scene, as an agressive guy who isn't just "play acting". Kemo, you said it, 99% know that S&M isn't serious, but the 1%, well they are not acting. I don't know much, not really anything about this Leather Scene, I imagine it as a lot of dress up and if you are playing it out further, I would think that it is very structured in the way the "S" is managed. The scene in Mark's house was anything but structured or managed until the attack was over. Then this person came out of the rage and was able to put his head together enough to think about his own well-being and he tried to cleanup. Also, he was able to hide Mark so we are here all these years later wondering what happened. Clever.

I know we can't interview Mark's friends, but we can put our thoughts out there and hopefully someone may read this and remember something. So, who among Mark's friends could have lost control like this and then pull it back together? I know I couldn't pull this off. It would be written all over my face and eating me alive. Hmm, maybe he didn't pull it back together. Has one of the "friends" started drinking more or even moved away after Mark disappeared. If this was a one time act of violence, it must have changed this person's world.

Let's not forget that Mark met people at work and in other areas of his life. I did have a question. Did anyone want to borrow money from Mark, did he owe anyone money? I have to ask it.

 

[Iluminada]

I was reading up a bit and found that S&M, Bondage, Leather, the Gay Community and the Straight Community can find themselves in the same room depending their need or desire. This opens up the door to say, this perp may have come from the Gay Community, Straight or Bi-Sexual Community.

Note: There is also something called switching when the roles are reversed.

 

[Iluminada]

Mark may have picked someone up, a stranger even and been "rolled" robbed of his money in the apartment. For some, there is an exchange of money for sex and there might have been an argument over the amount or the intention may have always been to rob Mark. If Mark refused or faught back, the perp may have hit him over and over, not really intending to kill Mark, but going too far. The perp may have panicked when he saw what he did and thus the cleanup and disposing of Mark. So far the perp has evaded justice, but if he is jailed at some point, you'll get fingerprints, I hope LE has some to compare, then the DNA can be checked and this man can receive justive. Hopefully, he will tell you where he put Mark.

Good luck to you.

 

[Hilda Swenson]

Hmm, maybe he didn't pull it back together. Has one of the "friends" started drinking more or even moved away after Mark disappeared. If this was a one time act of violence, it must have changed this person's world.

Let's not forget that Mark met people at work and in other areas of his life. I did have a question. Did anyone want to borrow money from Mark, did he owe anyone money? I have to ask it.

Or did any of his friends take their own life afterward? It is puzzling that no DNA match or print match has ever been made either before or after Mark's disappearance.

 

[Iluminada]

Nice to see you Hilda. There is an FBI program called VCAP, Violent Criminal Apprehension Program. This program inputs the information surrounding this case and checks to see if there are any other cases in the country involving the same scenario. The police should be able to do this if it hasn't already been done.

This guy could be on the move.

We have to look at this case as a possible hate crime. If it's a hate crime, that brings in the FBI and it's resources. So far there's no good argument for it.

 

[LinasK]

Nice to see you Hilda. There is an FBI program called VCAP, Violent Criminal Apprehension Program. This program inputs the information surrounding this case and checks to see if there are any other cases in the country involving the same scenario. The police should be able to do this if it hasn't already been done.

This guy could be on the move.

We have to look at this case as a possible hate crime. If it's a hate crime, that brings in the FBI and it's resources. So far there's no good argument for it.

Actually,there are two good reasons it may be a hate crime- Mark was gay and he was Jewish. He could've been a target for either reason.

 

[Iluminada]

Or did any of his friends take their own life afterward? It is puzzling that no DNA match or print match has ever been made either before or after Mark's disappearance.

Hilda, there is a DNA result but no match on the perp. He's not in the system. I bet they have fingerprints as well. Let's see if this guy committed the same type of crime somewhere else.

Single man
Gay lifestyle
Frequents Bars (perhaps leather, and S&M)
Drinks
Lives alone
Lives in apartment building? House?
Works at airport loading dock. Blue collar worker
In his 40's ?
No pets
No alarm system
Vehicle taken

Brutal crime scene. Blood splatter on walls.
Knife, hands, gun? used.
Victim removed from the home unconscious or conscious?
Believe victim was placed in car and hidden.
Perp tried to clean-up crime scene.
Perp left victims car in high crime neighborhood.

No witnesses?
Victim last seen at Bar
Victim took the day off to attend "personal emergency"

Anything to add or correct?

 

[Tulessa]

I was reading up a bit and found that S&M, Bondage, Leather, the Gay Community and the Straight Community can find themselves in the same room depending their need or desire. This opens up the door to say, this perp may have come from the Gay Community, Straight or Bi-Sexual Community.

Note: There is also something called switching when the roles are reversed.

Gosh! I'm so thankful for your fresh eyes on this case. The detective I talked to, said there was a LOT, that hadn't been released to the public. Thank you!! For everything!

 

[LinasK]

Hilda, there is a DNA result but no match on the perp. He's not in the system. I bet they have fingerprints as well. Let's see if this guy committed the same type of crime somewhere else.

Single man
Gay lifestyle
Frequents Bars (perhaps leather, and S&M)
Drinks
Lives alone
Lives in apartment building? House?
Works at airport loading dock. Blue collar worker
In his 40's ?
No pets
No alarm system
Vehicle taken

Brutal crime scene. Blood splatter on walls.
Knife, hands, gun? used.
Victim removed from the home unconscious or conscious?
Believe victim was placed in car and hidden.
Perp tried to clean-up crime scene.
Perp left victims car in high crime neighborhood.

No witnesses?
Victim last seen at Bar
Victim took the day off to attend "personal emergency"

Anything to add or correct?

Mark was 42 at the time of his disappearance. Think he'd be 56 if he was alive today. From a picture I saw, I think he lived in a house. Don't know if he rented. Baggage handler for United Airlines in Portland.

 

[Iluminada]

Mark deserves better than this. I can only help to a point and then we have to get in "better eyes" than mine.

Until then,
Are you or Mark's parents in contact with the police? How often? Maybe someone here, a relative, can help Mark's parents by acting as a liason between them and the police if they need it. For some people talking to the police can set off a range of emotions that could stop you from asking questions or from hearing them completely.

There must have been newspaper articles. Do you have any that you can post?

I would gather every bit of information you have on Mark and his disappearance. Ask his parents to help and go back and try to remember from the time they heard he was missing till now (that is only if they are up to it), recall everything that's happened; telephone calls, meetings with the police, dates, times and places; anything and everything that belongs to this case. All relevant papers. Put it together so you have everything if you ever need to produce information. Post whatever you feel would be helpful. Everything plus whatever they need for the radio show. You'll never have to do this again! It's a one time thing! I'm sure it's the same information you need for the radio show. I just can't wait now that you've told me!!

I think I'm going to start reading about the Gay Community Activists in Portland, Oregon. Mark was one of them and was heading home from a bar that was known to cater to the Gay Community. I would think that they would want to be helpful. I can't contact anyone. If I find someone I think may be important or helpful to the case, I'll let you know. Talk to you soon. Good Luck.

 

[LinasK]

Mark deserves better than this. I can only help to a point and then we have to get in "better eyes" than mine.

Until then,
Are you or Mark's parents in contact with the police? How often? Maybe someone here, a relative, can help Mark's parents by acting as a liason between them and the police if they need it. For some people talking to the police can set off a range of emotions that could stop you from asking questions or from hearing them completely.

There must have been newspaper articles. Do you have any that you can post?

I would gather every bit of information you have on Mark and his disappearance. Ask his parents to help and go back and try to remember from the time they heard he was missing till now (that is only if they are up to it), recall everything that's happened; telephone calls, meetings with the police, dates, times and places; anything and everything that belongs to this case. All relevant papers. Put it together so you have everything if you ever need to produce information. Post whatever you feel would be helpful. Everything plus whatever they need for the radio show. You'll never have to do this again! It's a one time thing! I'm sure it's the same information you need for the radio show. I just can't wait now that you've told me!!

I think I'm going to start reading about the Gay Community Activists in Portland, Oregon. Mark was one of them and was heading home from a bar that was known to cater to the Gay Community. I would think that they would want to be helpful. I can't contact anyone. If I find someone I think may be important or helpful to the case, I'll let you know. Talk to you soon. Good Luck.

Mark's parents were in touch with a different cold case detective named Larry Findling. He is retired. I added his contact info in the post above. I did e-mail him at the time and got no response. I am a relative- Mark's father is my cousin, but I haven't been in touch with them recently, although in light of the possible radio show, I may let them know about it. There are links to articles throughout this thread. I compiled the thread and sent it to Tricia a few days ago. We'll have to see when we can schedule the show.

 

[LinasK]

Portland Police Bureau
Cold Case Homicide Unit
Cold Case detective: Sgt Bahnson Phone number: (503) 823 3333
cold case contact at Portland police:
Larry Findling , a retired detective
larry.findling@portlandoregon.gov.

Case #: 99-1387 NamUs MP #: 876
Crime Stoppers: 1-503-823-HELP(4357)
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3847dmor.html


http://www.portlandonline.com/police...content_id=118
November 20, 2001 00:00

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dribin_mark.html

http://www.kptv.com/story/15952823/c...-disappearance
NamUs profile for Mark:

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/876
I have also located a thread on Mark on Project Jason: http://www.projectjason.org/forums/i...?topic=11878.0
Mark’s address: 3629 NE 137th Avenue, Portland, OR

http://www.portlandonline.com/Police...203141&c=35874

 

[Iluminada]

Lots of reading to do tomorrow. I think it would be a good idea for you to touch base with Mark's parents and let them know about the radio show and how you are trying to help. Of course I don't know what the family situation is, it's your call.

I'm so glad you got that information together for the radio show. I think it could make a big difference. Were you close to Mark? If you don't mind my asking. You seem to be driven to help out.

Good luck and I'll be listening.

 

[LinasK]

Lots of reading to do tomorrow. I think it would be a good idea for you to touch base with Mark's parents and let them know about the radio show and how you are trying to help. Of course I don't know what the family situation is, it's your call.

I'm so glad you got that information together for the radio show. I think it could make a big difference. Were you close to Mark? If you don't mind my asking. You seem to be driven to help out.

Good luck and I'll be listening.

No, I hadn't seen him in years.

 

[Tulessa]

No, I hadn't seen him in years.

LinasK, can you contact his parents? I swear, I see those gentle eyes in my dreams.

 

[Tulessa]

It would be great to have them a part of the show. (If they are up to it)