OR - Michael Hays & Douglas Brown for child pornography, Winston, 2008

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Missizzy, Feb 18, 2010.

  1. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    http://kezi.com/page/162925


    Winston Man Sentenced to 10 Years for Possessing Child Porn

    "EUGENE, Ore. -- A U.S. District judge has sentenced a Winston man to 10 years in federal prison for possessing child pornography.

    Michael Bruce Hays, age 42, pled guilty in September 2009, to possession of computer disks containing child pornography including pictures of minors engaged in sexually explicit conduct.

    The case arose from an undercover investigation into the online distribution of child pornography. Agents obtained a search warrant for the defendant's computer where they found more than 16,000 still images and more than 300 videos containing child porn.

    Court records show he admitted that the images show sadistic and masochistic conduct and other depictions of violence, and that he distributed child pornography in order to get more child pornography......."


    more at link
     
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  3. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/winston_man_sent_to_prison_for.html

    Not much new in this article beyond what was posted in the first one, except...


    "Some of the images found on Michael B. Hays' computer discs depicted acts of sadism, masochism and other violence, reported the U.S. attorney's office for Oregon."

    OMG, you have no idea how much the words Masochism and Child porn irritate me when used together.
    Sadism, I can understand...but we can have the S without the M.
    Masochism: definition: 1. The deriving of sexual gratification, or the tendency to derive sexual gratification, from being physically or emotionally abused.
    2. The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from being humiliated or mistreated, either by another or by oneself.
    3. A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.

    For one to be masochistic, they must derive sexual pleasure from being harmed or humiliated...I highly doubt the children felt any sexual pleasure, likewise I doubt they had a willingness or non-influenced tendency to do much of anything relating to those photos and videos.

    Sorry, but I really think that before people go spouting fetish talk, they should at least understand the basics.

    Grr, at the reporter.
     
  4. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    not_my_kids--You know I saw that in the other article and wondered too. The reason I linked to the article I did was because of the photo. ITA with you and suspect it was poor reporting.

    You don't think, though, that there's the possibility of masochism being exhibited by the abuser? I can imagine a few scenarios which might come under than heading but agree it's probably just sloppy reporting. I'll check and see if there's a way I can email the reporter to clarify that.
     
  5. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    Here's the email address of the reporter:

    bryandenson@news.oregonian.com

    I just wrote to him and asked him to clarify. I'll post as soon as I hear back.
     
  6. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    Thanks Missizzy, It's a really big pet peeve of mine.

    Partially becuase I remember from my attacker's trial, the defense tried to say that the impact was not as severe, as I already showed masochistic tendencies...at 12...needless, to say, I didn't, but it sticks with me.
     
  7. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    http://www.kpic.com/news/local/84627347.html

    Sorry to double post, but I found this article, sorry if it's been mentioned, but this link says they were prepubescent victims. The first mention I had seen of ages.

    And, of course, now I have to ask, they have the pictures and the videos, but what about the children that had 301 videos and 16, 373 pictures shot of them? Don't get me wrong, getting the demand side of the supply and demand for kiddie porn is great, but we need to nail some more on the supply side, too.
     
  8. BeanE

    BeanE Inactive

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    O/T - Hugs, NMK.
     
  9. believe09

    believe09 New Member

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    I would be happy to email the reporter as well MissIzz and NMK-I think that on the heels of this we are about to get the big media blitz on the new child molestation book where the writer claims there is no trauma to the molested child....I think we are all going to need to draw our lines in the sand early and LOUDLY.
     
  10. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    OK, I'm firmly adhered to the bed, Believe. I'm ready. What book?


    NMK, that hurt to read. I'm so sorry. (((hugs)))
     
  11. kbl8201

    kbl8201 Former Member

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    anyone who thinks they experience no trauma is.......

    a) somone with no soul
    b) someone with no brain
    c) a molester himself (since they think they arent hurting the kids afterall)
    d) all of the above
     
  12. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    To his credit, I just heard back from the reporter:


    "Thanks for your note. Truth is, I was rewriting a press release on deadline and took the language of the press release. I suspect what they meant, and what I tried to convey (probably poorly) is that these were depictions (which were probably acting) in this fashion. So I suspect you are right about this being feigned masochism."
    Best,
    Bryan
     
  13. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    Although I am still not happy about it, I have to congratulate him for being man enough to admit that it was a rush job. Most of them wouldn't bother to answer back at all.
     
  14. kbl8201

    kbl8201 Former Member

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    i'll congradulate him when he prints a correction
     
  15. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    NMK, sending you support and care. I'm sorry for all you have been through.

    I think I recall reading one of your posts that you didn't like labels like victim/survivor. Just wanted you to know through those words you helped someone.

    WORDS! Of course it would stick with you. Again, I'm so sorry.
     
  16. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    See, this is what I hate. Once you get the victim label, every thing you say is up for debate.
    I want to say something that I know won't be popular. At the immediate moment of the abuse, there often isn't trauma. The act itself is not always traumatic. It's the aftermath that is so destructive.
    Of course, I am referring to children that are not taken by physical force and/or are too young to understand that this is wrong. And perversely, I believe that this is just what makes it so traumatic later on. It's one thing for an adult woman to know that they fought as hard as they could against an assalt, even if they don't win the fight. It's another to realize that as a child, you didn't fight because it didn't hurt and you didn't know better.

    Of course, I am not agreeing that there is no trauma, that's bullschnick. of course there is trauma, but with the ones that aren't violent rapists, but rather molestors that look or touch, there may not be physical or immediate trauma. Saying that there is none is like saying cancer doesn't kill because it doesn't hurt at first or kill you right away.
     
  17. believe09

    believe09 New Member

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    "The Trauma Myth" written by Susan Clancy and recently released. It claims that the acts of molestations in and of themselves do not traumatize a child. It is society's response to the acts that traumatizes the child.

    I do not make this stuff up. I am going to read it-I have heard this argument before, granted from RSO's, and I want to be adequately armed to combat what I consider to be a very superficial take on something that can cause your soul to decay.

    Just in case you all wonder where I stand on this argument.



     
  18. believe09

    believe09 New Member

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    BBM-this is the take of the book initially, but without the follow up I think. I have only read interviews...there is one in Salon.com for those of you who want to check into her research.

    I do not find the argument specious simply because the idea is abhorrent to me-I struggle with the idea that someone may be hardwired to be attracted to children and whether or not it is something that is a "disease." I wonder if RAPE would cause quite as much pain as it does if it werent for the secrecy.

    BUT-seduction of children is like that whole one armed paperhanger cliche-Children should not be subjected to sexual experiences at the hands of the adults for a myriad of reasons...if nothing else the balance of power is completely wrong. What is the difference between this and date rape with a roofie? I may not "know" about the rape with my brain, but the body is going to remember right?? JMO. Under what circumstances is it OK to stimulate a child sexually well before they have a handle on their body themselves?? That alone has to be wrong...IMO. I think the sexuality of child is a world of difference when it encompasses their own exploration and natural evolution. How can bringing them into this NOT be traumatic?

    Maybe I am remarkably dense.
     
  19. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    And I agree (with you, not the author). It isn't just societal reaction...as a child gets older they learn that what the person did was wrong and that they were taken advantage of for some one elses physical gain. Geesh, why don't we just call open season on children....just what we need, the movement that molestation is okay as long as no one gets immediately physically hurt and we as a society don't over react to an abomination...k.

    ETA: Trying to make myself clear, as usual. No one likes to be taken advantage of, no one likes to be lied to, especially by a friend or relative, as most molestors are. That in and of itself is traumatic, when you find out about the lie.
    I can say that sometimes having to testify and that kind or thing causes as much trauma as the offense, but to say there is none from the assault itself is just...for lack of a better word, idiotic? IMO.
     
  20. believe09

    believe09 New Member

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    The author claims she fled to Central America in order to study how sexual abuse affects people in Latin American countries. From Harvard she fled. Because everyone hated her and didnt like her point of view. BUT SHE only tells the truth.
     
  21. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    ITA that we are in murky waters here. NMK, you make an excellent point in that everything you/we say is up for debate and examined under a close lens.

    I don't have a TV so have never watched Oprah (I know, how un-American of me) but another WSer encouraged me to watch the show on a small screen on the internet. That works with my disability and I was very motivated to watch the "Conversation with Molesters" show. All in all, I think Oprah pulled off a very informative interview. It's a great debate starter and I've asked all my adult kids to watch it and discuss it.

    The reason I bring this up right now is that Oprah brought up the issue of how "a really good molester will make sure that it doesn't hurt". I know that this comment sets off a lot of people--both survivors and observers--as they think how could it not hurt? How can survivors be yelling and screaming about pain and shame and life-long agony....if it doesn't even hurt? Talk about playing right into the hands of the pedophiles and rapists.

    Child sex abuse is similar to many hot-ticket subjects. We fight so hard to be heard and to educate and we fighters are terrified of losing ground. What if the word gets out that sometimes sex abuse doesn't hurt? We'd be sunk, we think.

    Well that's not correct.....at all. Sex abuse can hurt terribly or it can feel incredibly pleasant (at the time). We're talking about human anatomy and sensory reaction, often senses we can't completely control. The line is crossed when a person breaks a law set up by our democratic society. We've decided where the age of consent marker is set. Before that point, everything....absolutely everything is illegal. No ifs, ands, or buts. It's a messy prospect, making rules about human bodies, but a necessary one.

    For those who are unfortunate enough to be targeted for sex abuse, there is a vast array of responses. Sometimes, the abuse is almost benign as in secret peeping. It moves past there to stroking and fondling. These actions are typically the same that we would see used with a pet or an infant and which are read by the human body as pleasurable--even if they sickly arouse the abuser. There can even be penetration without causing horrible pain if the molester is "good", as Oprah points out. Then, of course, we have pain and/or rape and there the line is more easily defined, by even an observer.

    What isn't as easy to define is the psychological pain and shame. That can often take years, or even decades, to seep through the consciousness, after silently coloring the victim's life. There is self-doubt, deep shame, embarrassment, guilt that the person has somehow invited the contact, confusion over alliances, shock that we've not been protected/failed to protect. These scars, I'm afraid don't fade as readily as the bruises and physical manifestations of abuse. They linger and often fester.

    I have had personal experience with children who've been physically hurt during abuse. They've suffered at the time and later from severe PTSD as they struggled to feel safe in this world. I've watched as one chose the field of law enforcement and not been surprised. That young adult has a great need to set things right, to gently protect, and to give others a sense of safety.

    I've had the personal experience with others who were physically hurt who've gone on to physically hurt others. I feel, to some degree that they are lost. I might be wrong but I have very little hope. They seem without conscience and don't make the connection with their pain and the pain they inflict on others.

    I've also had personal experience with children who were enticed to "play along", who might have been uncomfortable, but who were not greatly physically hurt. These children do not have the insight to look back and analyze their abuse. I believe they look upon what happened to them as consensual and embarrassing. They have no concept that they didn't have the ability to consent as they were only seven or eight years old. They, mercifully, have moved on as they have a very concrete view of life and bundle the sexual abuse up with other "small infractions" of childhood--sneaking cookies, painting the dog, or being caught pouring milk on themselves in the shower.

    My point is that each abuse, each human, each memory bank, each life view is unique. We set the rules to delineate who breaks the law. But there is no one to set the "law" on how an abused child or a rape victim might respond...what their inner or physical pain might be...nor how long that pain will linger.

    The crime of sexual abuse is an aberration regardless of the these issues. No abuser can truly gauge the harm he or she is inflicting. That is the purpose of the law.
     

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