Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by GordianKnot, Oct 8, 2019.
It would have been evident during autopsy if he had been run over by a van.
IMO this is victim blaming, it alludes to Owen's parents being at fault by neglecting or completely mindless to Owen's cries for help, that are only based on opinions not fact, they are victims as well, their son is dead. Can't accept? They would benefit? Ughhh... They have every right to question all they need to and overturn every single rock until they are satisfied with their discoveries and cope and grieve as they wish, not as others believe they should or should not.
Huh? The boy targeted by another group not long after Owen went missing was ran over with intent after leaving a bar, not Owen. He looked almost identical to Owen. It makes me curious is Owen was observed by members of the other outfit, possibly new members, who could have mistaken him for the other intended target. He could have been attacked, mistaken for the other, and thrown over that bridge, they may also have those missing belongings, imo.
If he was attacked, it would have been revealed by the autopsy also.
The OP is a retired teacher, they have a lifetime of seeing and learning about kids, parents and behavior. When I read some of the posts on the memorial page, I had the same impression (and I'm not a teacher, only a parent), mainly because he was being portrayed as the most compliant person, easy going, etc. It's entirely possible his parents simply missed what was going on with him. It's not victim blaming to think there's more going on here.
This is false. For one, drownings are very difficult to differentiate if accidental or on purpose in most instances, many are simply guess work, this is described in great detail in many literary published work by the professionals who have worked such cases for decades. Also, his injuries by hitting water as if it were glass could hide being roughed up and then thrown over the bridge, in fact the injuries hitting water at great height could super-cede and cover a group mistaking Owen for other intended victim, roughing him up a little before throwing him over that bridge.
He was not found in the water, but on land near the water and some factory type businesses, down a dark off the path road. With no detailed report, no one can be sure he jumped a bridge willingly or unwillingly, or was held under water and never jumped from a bridge. There are many questions left unanswered and i stand for and advocate for these grief stricken parents and their quest for more answers. As a loving parent myself, I would do the same as Owen's parents are in regards to looking and overturning every stone for my child, no doubt about it. I would also be highly offended by others opinions of how I should be grieving or that I need to accept very few answers, answers left unanswered in regards to my dead child. I will simply agree to disagree. You have your opinions and I have my own opinions.
I in no way am trying to be disorderly, but I have had a strange feeling about this case from the beginning, and I could be very wrong, but my spidey senses and overall going into, what's it is called, forgot the name, but i normally follow logic, but for some reason, something is telling me, something isn't right. I would rather it be looked further into and I found wrong, then it to be closed quickly, clean, and falsely.
Oh sorry I misunderstood you.
I think, sadly, it’s most likely that this is what it looks like—suicide, but I can appreciate and understand the need to find answers to some of the questions here. For me the main one is who he was in a group text with that night. The parents want to know that, so I feel like it might be important to know. It’s a sad situation, and I hope the parents are able to find answers to their questions in order to feel confident in what happened to their son.
Please look up the other boys death, same city, it was days or a week or so after Owen was missing. With these type groups, anything is possible, in how far they go when someone in another group is targeted. With Owen's hair pulled back, also a possibility a hat or hoodie placed while walking in the cold from his backpack...walking and by bad luck he passes the other group. Odder and stranger things have happened, but thank you for understanding my being a bit upset over this case. I do not know why it has affected me more than some other cases.
Here is the link to the murder, Oct 13.
Activist dies after being hit by SUV near Cider Riot, Portland left-wing hangout
There is great hostility and bad bad blood between these radical left and right wing anarchists, as they are described. Owen to me resembles the victim who was a target.
Yeah I know what you mean about being so affected by Owen’s case. My daughter is a freshman in college, living in a dorm far from home, and this is a parent’s worst nightmare. I keep putting myself in his parents’ shoes, and I wouldn’t be able to rest until I knew for sure what happened. And they don’t seem satisfied. They could be in denial and as others have said, suicide never makes sense, but I understand their need to have more answers. I just hope they are able to get them!
I’ll look up the other boy’s case.
eta I just saw you posted a link—I’ll go look now!
In this news photo released, Owen has his hoodie on.
JMO but I don't think there's a viable connection here. The boy who died in front of Cider Riot was a well-known face in the Portland antifa, known to have a shaved head, and known to hang out at Cider Riot (a well-known meeting spot for antifa). It makes perfect sense for him to have been killed at this location. I doubt the Proud Boys, or whatever right-wing group targeted him, were going all around portland targeting any white boy that slightly resembled him
That said, I agree with you that the foul play angle deserves more attention from PPB
It's a theory. It was dark, his hoodie on. Under certain circumstances, smoking meth or high, drunk, and known to be impulsive and violent, running a guy over and his clan shooting wild bullets does not point to individuals who make the best decisions. If attacked on impulse and discovery he was the wrong guy, imo these guys would still kill him to hide the assault, especially with all that heat on them already. It's a theory. In my area gangs have done worse and stranger killings, even a few instances they were dumb enough to use the victims phones. So, who actually was group messaging to numbers and untraceable, possibly, throw away phones before cutting that phone off. His mother mentioned once none of those calls were anyone or number associated or known to those Owen knows. But I agree, and really do not know of these groups in Portland enough to base more than theory. But. agree that something is off.
Owen and the boy who was killed do look a lot alike, but like PdxErn I doubt there is a connection. But who knows? I see where you’re going with a mistaken identity theory though, and I think his parents deserve answers to the unanswered questions about his death. Like I’ve said, if it were me I wouldn’t be able to rest if I were uncertain about what happened. I suspected that this was a suicide while he was missing because of the timing of midterms and his being cagey to his roommates about where he was going. But I also get that with no note and some questions like who he was texting with, money withdrawn from ATM etc., there is some uncertainty.
When I first read about Owen, I really hoped he was taking a little breather but with the timing of exams, I had a horrible feeling it was going to be suicide.
I have my doubts that he willingly ended his life. I feel like the texts REALLY should be investigated before the police claim the case is closed.
Can’t the police at least trace back the numbers and identify who was involved in the text string??? I am generally very pro-LE but don’t have a lot of confidence in this particular investigation. I get the feeling they are overwhelmed and closing the case is just easier for them.
Why wouldn’t whoever he was texting come forward?? Can his family hire an independent investigator to get some answers?
Still thinking about you, Owen. :rose:
The only thing I want to add is my recent observation of how differently people process grief. Since July I've been going to a Portland-area bereavement group run by a local hospice, twice a month. There are usually around 20 people there and some of the people most in pain are the ones who have questions about the death of their loved one, or when the death was completely unexpected. Car crashes and suicides mainly. I mean we're talking nearly a year later in many cases and if you didn't know their stories you would think it happened yesterday. They have to keep it together for their other kids or their work or any number of things but inside they feel like their hearts are breaking into a trillion shards of glass that then pierce the pieces of their heart all over again.
Owen's family is still so much at the beginning of addressing their loss, I personally won't judge them for how they are expressing their emotions. I truly wish they find the peace they are seeking, however that turns out to be.
BBM Hi PJS, nice to see you here. With the text message string, it depends a lot on the carrier and what info is available without having the phone in hand, which I don't believe in Owen's case has been found. When I worked in telecom, the text messaging detail resided in the phone, not on the network. But not all wireless carriers work that way. I would hazard a guess that Owen's family paid for his phone via a family plan so it would seem likely they could see whatever call detail is available through the carrier. Maybe it's not telling them much. The other thing to keep in mind is that getting the info from the wireless provider can be difficult without a subpoena or search warrant from LE. I was an official custodian of records for many years and I can't recall ever supplying information to a private investigator, though we did get those requests from time to time.
With Owen's dad being an attorney I'm assuming he has access to investigators, and perhaps that's happening behind the scenes.
Very conflicting emotions:
* If someone harmed him, I want them brought to justice.
* However, assuming someone we don't know would not have possibly committed suicide does a great disservice to the many who suffer from depression and the like no matter how successful they appear externally.
I have not found much definitive information about the group text, so at the moment I believe it's entirely possible that the people chatting with Owen didn't know him personally. Plenty of young people are in online groups where they are in regular contact but have never met each other, or even know each others' real names. Unless it can be determined that everyone/most people involved were in the Portland area at that time, I think it's possible that the people chatting with Owen have no idea why he disappeared from the chat or that something has happened to him. That would explain why they have not come forward.
Of course he could have been chatting with classmates, teammates, relatives or sketchy acquaintances. With the little information we have, I don't think we can know what's most likely.
I am curious why when there has been no conclusive statement that Owen committed suicide, and looking further into circumstances, is a great disservice to those who suffer from depression? I have not read any adamant statements that there is 'no possibility,' this young man committed suicide, and have read many direct statements that he 100% committed suicide, assuming this about someone they do not know either.
I am curious because I suffer major depression, have 7 pill bottles filled with every type of antidepressant, anti anxiety, energy stimulant in hopes some miracle mixture will cure and overcome great apathy, inertia, hopelessness, the inability to move, motivate, smile, laugh, energy, wash hair, re initiate immaculate perfectionism, achieve, become productive, find more joy than simple being happy the antidepressant overcame the overwhelming feeling of anxiety, which more times than not, is worse than the feeling of immense depression, a miracle combo to finding happiness and relief that getting put together for a public outing does not feel like a milestone, a 500 mile marathon to expend energy on putting on a public face, becoming sociable and not reclusive, silent, and avoidant. It took many nah's and maybe's, periods of no interest, so much thought, time and energy to simply question myself if I really wish to engage on this board and post my link which i have thought about doing for many weeks, but had no impulse, interest, or drive to do so. Depressed people often live slow suicides, the living dead.
I have read many untruths regarding suicide on a case that suicide has yet to be released as the definitive cause of death. The parents requesting more answers to their child's passing should respected and on a thread regarding their son, I find it more disrespectful to not look into other possibilities which is their wish.
I feel the guess game is frustrating when those posting do not know him either.
One faction of humans commit suicide at alarming rates compared to general population, and that is female Aspies moreso than males with Aspergers, one being overlooked, diagnosed too late into young or middle adulthood, but as a whole male/female aspies commit suicide at alarming rates. So, one could assume he had been neglected by the medical field and was not properly diagnosed with Aspergers and which one? the more common misrepresented and offensive TV aspie, the robotic, logical, irritating vengeful aspie or the artistic, who's overall being is extremely different in behavior and interests, another branch that branches off the same spectrum.
It would be armchair diagnosing someone no one knows. No one has come forth as an insider to speak about who Owen is and their perception of Owen.
For myself, this entire thread is completely all over the place which makes it difficult to focus on who the subject is and that is Owen, no one else but Owen.