OR - Public health emergency declared over measles anti-vax hotspot near Portland and NY, Jan 2019

[mickey2942]

I have never heard of medical staff scoffing at people coming in to do the right thing in terms of healthcare. These people feels shame because they know they did the wrong thing.

I have worked at a hospital, and saw patients bullied mercilessly by staff. Bullied for being noncompliant with medication, diet, exercise, or ending up in the hospital for doing something dumb. Medical bullying is real, and causes many people to discontinue medical care. I recently changed dentists just because I was sick of being "scolded" like a child for not flossing every day.

 

[bears10]

Nope. Tri-care has to approve doctors first. I live in a city with a military post and only about half the doctors will work with Tri-care and most of the pharmacies no longer will accept Tri-Care. So while I can just take my kids to the urgent-care clinic as needed, the military folks pretty much have to make an appointment with on base clinic (which is usually a week or so wait) or go to the emergency room at the hospital. Tri-care is a dumpster fire.

When I was covered by tricare in my 20s (bc I was still on my parents insurance) I had very slim pickings bc most doctors in my area wouldn’t accept tricare. My psychiatrist made sure he shamed me at the beginning of every appointment for having tricare, because tricare was apparently so terrible for him to deal with that he only accepted it to I guess do a “favor” to Iraq veterans. That’s just one example of my many, many years being insured by Tricare. In my younger years it was pretty decent coverage, especially if you have a base nearby. But otherwise, good luck with that. Dumpster fire is generous.

 

[bears10]

The problem is when you live in more rural areas, doctors can choose which insurance companies to be on, so, they pick the ones with the highest return.

In places with more providers and competition, doctors, especially new ones, are more flexible with who they will take.

Here in Montana, just recently, a law was passed that a pharmcist can give immunizations to children. That is significant. So, just take the kids to the CVS or whatever pharmacy, get shots. No expense for medical appointment. Reduce barriers to getting immunizations.

My experience with tricare that I posted above was in NJ, not at all rural. Tricare just sucks and very few doctors want to deal with them. IME

 

[mickey2942]

My experience with tricare that I posted above was in NJ, not at all rural. Tricare just sucks and very few doctors want to deal with them. IME

Not unlike the VA. They don't pay, when they do, it is less than Medicare. Providers have dropped working for the VA, unless they do it for the veterans as a write off.

Back to subject of Measles.

 

[bears10]

Not unlike the VA. They don't pay, when they do, it is less than Medicare. Providers have dropped working for the VA, unless they do it for the veterans as a write off.

Back to subject of Measles.

I was responding directly to your post discussing Tricare so I’m not sure why you’re trying to cut me off. But okay.

Anyway. Vaccinate your kids, peeps. They are the innocent ones who will potentially have to deal with the consequences of their parents not vaccinating them.

 

[nightowl1975]

Pediatric deaths from all cancers is about 2.28 children per 100,000, and 29.9% of those deaths is from brain cancers. Not sure where 1 in 7 comes from!

Brain cancer is now the leading cancer killer of kids

.

My daughter was 10 when she was diagnosed with her brain tumor. She receives all of her treatment at MD Anderson, one of the world’s leading cancer treatment centers.

“Where I get my numbers”? That would be from the dozen or so neuro oncologists, neuro pathologists, neuro radiologists, and pediatric neurosurgeons that diagnosed, operated on, treated, and continue to treat her TOLD ME her chances are of dying from this monster growing in her brain. So you’ll have to excuse me if your handy, condescending links to random websites on general pediatric brain cancer statistics don’t impress me much. I can ASSURE you, I know my own daughter’s odds of dying from this thing. It’s a horror I wouldn’t wish on anyone. And that’s all I have to say for now, lest I find myself in time out. Have a blessed day.

 

[gitana1]

My daughter was 10 when she was diagnosed with her brain tumor. She receives all of her treatment at MD Anderson, one of the world’s leading cancer treatment centers.

“Where I get my numbers”? That would be from the dozen or so neuro oncologists, neuro pathologists, neuro radiologists, and pediatric neurosurgeons that diagnosed, operated on, treated, and continue to treat her TOLD ME her chances are of dying from this monster growing in her brain. So you’ll have to excuse me if your handy, condescending links to random websites on general pediatric brain cancer statistics don’t impress me much. I can ASSURE you, I know my own daughter’s odds of dying from this thing. It’s a horror I wouldn’t wish on anyone. And that’s all I have to say for now, lest I find myself in time out. Have a blessed day.

On I'm so sad to hear of your daughter's passing. I'm really not trying to be condescending.

There is no way that children have a 1 in 7 chance of dying from a brain tumor. That's not remotely feasible.

 

[MsFacetious]

I'm interested to see what the legalities of these "bans" will end up being. It's interesting for sure.

On I'm so sad to hear of your daughter's passing. I'm really not trying to be condescending.

There is no way that children have a 1 in 7 chance of dying from a brain tumor. That's not remotely feasible.

I believe nightowl is saying that the 1 in 7 statistic is for HER daughter specifically. That HER daughter is currently fighting brain cancer and those are the odds she was given by her medical team.

She isn't claiming that is for all children. She's simply saying that when she compares 1 in 7, to the odds involved in dying from the measles... the measles odds don't look so bad.

Not trying to speak for you nightowl, just trying to help clarify. I understand how it is to be on the 2% end of the statistics instead of the 98%. For me even the astronomical odds just don't comfort me. I've just heard "well, this is the first time I've seen this in 30 years" WAY too many times. We've had 3 GBM cases in my immediate family in ten years and also an infant with skin cancer. We definitely tend to stay in the "rare" category.

Well, I would assume your child is vaccinated, as are mine. So I don’t live in fear that my child is going to die from measles. Because they’re vaccinated and all.

However, as you surely know not everyone can be vaccinated. They aren't going to give vaccines to someone undergoing chemo for example. Or to someone with other immune system issues.

My oldest daughter in fact got the chicken pox vaccine (against my wishes, I was SHAMED into it) then got the chicken pox FROM the vaccine and STILL had no blood immunity! Had they done the immune system blood work before they would have known I was correct to be concerned.

what about babies under a year? My 7 month old cannot have the vaccine yet and I’m absolutely terrified of her getting measles after recent outbreaks where we live. The vaccines are also meant to protect those who cannot have them.

Absolutely. The babies do worry me. When my youngest was 7 months old he got a high fever and then a rash. We were living out of state at the time so I took him to a "new" Pediatrician. It was awful.

He walked in and said "That looks like measles. Why isn't this child vaccinated for measles! That is so irresponsible!" He went on and on and on. When I responded that he was 7 MONTHS OLD he said "yes but since you moved from out of state you should have had him vaccinated against it now and then do it again later."

It was absurd. With my kids history of vaccine issues the last thing I would do is give one EARLIER than advised. Our medical team has us space them out and do one at a time and no "live" vaccines. My kid actually had roseola or sixths disease. That was what I had suspected but I did not expect the lecture I got.

 

[nightowl1975]

On I'm so sad to hear of your daughter's passing. I'm really not trying to be condescending.

There is no way that children have a 1 in 7 chance of dying from a brain tumor. That's not remotely feasible.

You really do need to read a bit more carefully. My daughter isn’t dead. And she does indeed have a one in seven chance of dying from the brain tumor she was diagnosed with. Nowhere did I state she has already died, and nowhere did I state that every child has a one in seven chance of dying of a brain tumor. Good grief.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Doctors, rabbis worked to uncover source of Oakland County measles

Sleuthing by a local emergency doctor helped identify a person believed to be Patient Zero in the measles outbreak that started last month in Oakland County, a crucial step in gaining control of the highly contagious disease.

The outbreak came to the attention of Oakland County Health Department officials in March, when they received a call from an Oak Park physician who was worried that a patient he'd sent home with a prescription might have the measles.

The patient was an Orthodox Jewish Israeli man who had traveled to Detroit to raise funds for charities in Israel. Health officials jumped on the case...

 

[Inthedetails]

Doctors, rabbis worked to uncover source of Oakland County measles

Sleuthing by a local emergency doctor helped identify a person believed to be Patient Zero in the measles outbreak that started last month in Oakland County, a crucial step in gaining control of the highly contagious disease.

The outbreak came to the attention of Oakland County Health Department officials in March, when they received a call from an Oak Park physician who was worried that a patient he'd sent home with a prescription might have the measles.

The patient was an Orthodox Jewish Israeli man who had traveled to Detroit to raise funds for charities in Israel. Health officials jumped on the case...

This line popped out to me: "And measles is far more contagious than the flu." I didn't know that.

This line is hopeful: "The department has administered 2,500 vaccinations since March 14, compared with perhaps a couple of hundred in that time period for previous years, she added."

Sounds like the word is getting out locally that vaccines are safe and easily available:
"McGraw, chairman of the emergency departments at Ascension Providence Hospital in Southfield and Novi, said he's grateful for the support of Metro Detroit's Orthodox community, which worked to quickly bring the outbreak under control by making sure everyone was vaccinated."

Another interesting thing from the article, BBM: 'Since the start of the Oakland County outbreak, health officials have confirmed one case of the New York strain in Wayne County. A different strain was identified in a measles case recently confirmed in Washtenaw County."

The different strains seem to indicate to my uninformed mind that there isn't a straight line of movement with "The Measles" in the country. The spread is more complicated. (All the more reason to vaccinate, imo.)

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

I have worked at a hospital, and saw patients bullied mercilessly by staff. Bullied for being noncompliant with medication, diet, exercise, or ending up in the hospital for doing something dumb. Medical bullying is real, and causes many people to discontinue medical care. I recently changed dentists just because I was sick of being "scolded" like a child for not flossing every day.

That's exactly my concern. The non-compliant parents need to feel comfortable or some (not all!) will just hide and avoid getting vaccines. (Not all, I know!)

I think we all can help with the cause by refraining from calling names. If you call someone a monster or idiotic online, does that help people come forward?

jmo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

New measles cases confirmed in Detroit, Oakland County; 8 exposure locations identified

Total number of confirmed measles cases in Southeast Michigan rises to 42

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

New video on my Xfinity homepage: Rockland County officials: 'We have 186 measles cases confirmed'

 

[Inthedetails]

Doctors, rabbis worked to uncover source of Oakland County measles

Sleuthing by a local emergency doctor helped identify a person believed to be Patient Zero in the measles outbreak that started last month in Oakland County, a crucial step in gaining control of the highly contagious disease.

The outbreak came to the attention of Oakland County Health Department officials in March, when they received a call from an Oak Park physician who was worried that a patient he'd sent home with a prescription might have the measles.

The patient was an Orthodox Jewish Israeli man who had traveled to Detroit to raise funds for charities in Israel. Health officials jumped on the case...

Here's more info the man who unknowingly spread the measles:

"A measles-infected Hasidic man traveled from Brooklyn to Michigan, unknowingly becoming Patient Zero in the Midwest by spreading the disease to 39 people before frantic health officials tracked him down, a report said Tuesday....

With the help of rabbinical leaders and a longtime member of the local Hatzolah chapter — who thought to look for the man’s blue rental sedan among the community’s multitude of minivans — they found the man, who was stunned by the diagnosis....

"All told, 39 cases were confirmed in Michigan, all among people who had links to the traveler, the report said."

https://nypost.com/2019/04/16/brooklyn-man-reportedly-spread-measles-to-dozens-on-midwest-trip/

 

[Inthedetails]

Regarding the mandatory vaccine order in some neighborhoods and Brooklyn, the mayor shut down a preschool on Monday that didn't provide records as required.

"Also Monday, a group of Brooklyn parents filed a lawsuit in Kings County Supreme Court in Brooklyn against the mandatory measles vaccination order."

New York City shuts down Brooklyn yeshiva preschool over measles vaccination violations - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

 

[nightowl1975]

He walked in and said "That looks like measles. Why isn't this child vaccinated for measles! That is so irresponsible!" He went on and on and on. When I responded that he was 7 MONTHS OLD he said "yes but since you moved from out of state you should have had him vaccinated against it now and then do it again later."
.

Wow... why would you vaccinate a 7 month old for measles when the CDC age range for this vaccine is 12-18 months old? It just would never occur to me, outside of an active outbreak, to even consider this. Why not just vaccinate a newborn the second they’re born for everything if we’re going to throw out the CDC’s recommendations? This guy sounds like a quack and I hope you found someone else!!

Like I’ve said. mine are vaccinated, but I did space them out just a bit for certain things. As an example, for the MMR, I did it at 15 months for my twins because I was 6 days from delivering number 3 when they were at their 12 month appointment. The normal reaction time for fever, etc after the MMR would’ve fallen directly into the time frame I would be bringing a newborn home, so I opted to wait until their 15 month appointment to get their first MMR. Mind you, this is still WELL within CDC guidelines AND research supports better immunity if you wait until closer to 18 months vs giving it right at 12 months.

You would’ve thought I was signing them up for certain death. They brought a whole group of folks into the exam room (this was in a military hospital) to explain to me how they would be unprotected and how risky that was. I asked some questions, like how many cases of measles did we have in the last year where we lived (answer: zero). Then I asked what the protocol would be for bringing a newborn home if twin 12 month olds had a fever that we weren’t 100% certain of the cause. I explained that I understood the risk of an additional 3 months of not being protected, but I hadn’t lost any sleep for the first 12 months of their lives that they also weren’t protected. And I would be back at 15 months. Me, personally? I don’t care what kind of pressure they put on me. I made the best decision I could for all of my children at the time. It was a risk I was willing to take. But I do know of the shaming and pressure put on parents. If they want folks to vaccinate, it would be prudent to consider how they treat people coming in to do so. Just an idea.

 

[gitana1]

I'm interested to see what the legalities of these "bans" will end up being. It's interesting for sure.



I believe nightowl is saying that the 1 in 7 statistic is for HER daughter specifically. That HER daughter is currently fighting brain cancer and those are the odds she was given by her medical team.

She isn't claiming that is for all children. She's simply saying that when she compares 1 in 7, to the odds involved in dying from the measles... the measles odds don't look so bad.

Not trying to speak for you nightowl, just trying to help clarify. I understand how it is to be on the 2% end of the statistics instead of the 98%. For me even the astronomical odds just don't comfort me. I've just heard "well, this is the first time I've seen this in 30 years" WAY too many times. We've had 3 GBM cases in my immediate family in ten years and also an infant with skin cancer. We definitely tend to stay in the "rare" category.




However, as you surely know not everyone can be vaccinated. They aren't going to give vaccines to someone undergoing chemo for example. Or to someone with other immune system issues.

My oldest daughter in fact got the chicken pox vaccine (against my wishes, I was SHAMED into it) then got the chicken pox FROM the vaccine and STILL had no blood immunity! Had they done the immune system blood work before they would have known I was correct to be concerned.




Absolutely. The babies do worry me. When my youngest was 7 months old he got a high fever and then a rash. We were living out of state at the time so I took him to a "new" Pediatrician. It was awful.

He walked in and said "That looks like measles. Why isn't this child vaccinated for measles! That is so irresponsible!" He went on and on and on. When I responded that he was 7 MONTHS OLD he said "yes but since you moved from out of state you should have had him vaccinated against it now and then do it again later."

It was absurd. With my kids history of vaccine issues the last thing I would do is give one EARLIER than advised. Our medical team has us space them out and do one at a time and no "live" vaccines. My kid actually had roseola or sixths disease. That was what I had suspected but I did not expect the lecture I got.

Thank you! That makes much more sense. I thought she was saying a child has a 1 in 7 chance of dying from a brain tumor. Whew!

 

[MsFacetious]

Thank you! That makes much more sense. I thought she was saying a child has a 1 in 7 chance of dying from a brain tumor. Whew!

Yes, I figured that you had missed it reading quickly. I totally understand having spent a LOT of time with lawyers in the last few years. LOL Though... it might also be that they are men.

Wow... why would you vaccinate a 7 month old for measles when the CDC age range for this vaccine is 12-18 months old? It just would never occur to me, outside of an active outbreak, to even consider this. Why not just vaccinate a newborn the second they’re born for everything if we’re going to throw out the CDC’s recommendations? This guy sounds like a quack and I hope you found someone else!!

Like I’ve said. mine are vaccinated, but I did space them out just a bit for certain things. As an example, for the MMR, I did it at 15 months for my twins because I was 6 days from delivering number 3 when they were at their 12 month appointment. The normal reaction time for fever, etc after the MMR would’ve fallen directly into the time frame I would be bringing a newborn home, so I opted to wait until their 15 month appointment to get their first MMR. Mind you, this is still WELL within CDC guidelines AND research supports better immunity if you wait until closer to 18 months vs giving it right at 12 months.

You would’ve thought I was signing them up for certain death. They brought a whole group of folks into the exam room (this was in a military hospital) to explain to me how they would be unprotected and how risky that was. I asked some questions, like how many cases of measles did we have in the last year where we lived (answer: zero). Then I asked what the protocol would be for bringing a newborn home if twin 12 month olds had a fever that we weren’t 100% certain of the cause. I explained that I understood the risk of an additional 3 months of not being protected, but I hadn’t lost any sleep for the first 12 months of their lives that they also weren’t protected. And I would be back at 15 months. Me, personally? I don’t care what kind of pressure they put on me. I made the best decision I could for all of my children at the time. It was a risk I was willing to take. But I do know of the shaming and pressure put on parents. If they want folks to vaccinate, it would be prudent to consider how they treat people coming in to do so. Just an idea.

Yep, that's how my wanting to wait on chicken pox and MMR was met. A huge list of the risks involved. Which all ended up being repeated when she was admitted to the hospital to treat chicken pox!

I was a teen mom so I was able to be shamed into it. It did not happen again. We actually kept the same Pediatrician because after this incident she realized she needed to listen to me. We have a fabulous relationship now and she's amazing.

The idiot who wanted me to vaccinate for measles twice, was out of state. We only lived there for a year and only took him in when we had to. He was saying that I should have vaccinated before we moved, due to travelling. Then because it wouldn't last we should do it again at 12 months.

My kid had rotavirus at 12 months and then got hand foot and mouth right after. I took him in for a weight check and informed them he had HFM. They were again condescending "how do YOU know it's HFM? Who diagnosed him?"

60 seconds later another doctor walked by and saw my son, she said "another with HFM? Man that's like 5 just today!" It was awesome. Those were our only 2 experiences with that practice before we moved back to our wonderful pediatrician.

My Pediatrician has absolutely learned how to approach the subject better. She just tells me what the kids are due for and asks me what I want to do. If she was aggressive about it, I'd want to refuse. I think being respectful of the parents choices is important to gain their trust and cooperation.

 

[human]

People need to question anecdotal stories. I have a “friend” whose child had a genetic condition that eventually killed him at age 10. That was like 20 or so years ago.

Now she claims on her FB it was due to vaccination and people who did not know her before are believers.

She is probably used as an example.