GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Knox, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    IMO Holt made the first gas stop so short because he maybe recognized a mutual friend of his/Whitneys', so he bolted out with a small amount of gas...Then minutes later, he made the 2cd gas stop for more gas and likely felt safe no one recognized him/SUV.

    Canteen Vending, Holt's employer, maybe had the Shell gas station vending account, and was there on its daily route. Route drivers do their deliveries pretty early in the morning. That would've freaked Holt out enough to bolt fast out of the Shell station.

    Also, factor in maybe the gas attendant might've noticed something odd about the SUV, maybe blood, glass, broken window and Holt sensed this, felt he better get out of the Shell station before the gas attendant got too nosy.
     
  2. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    I'm wondering if the Heatherwood apt complex where the Heichels, Holts lived, has outside security cameras in the parking lot?

    Or maybe the neighboring apt. complex, if there is one, had security cameras to spot what was going on with Whitney, Holt at the SUV on the morning of Oct 16th?

    If so, this would provide alot of information if the kidnapping was on tape.
     
  3. Desdemona

    Desdemona * * * * Desi * * * *

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    JH had Whitney's phone, right? He could possibly see all the messages it received from her family and church folks out frantically searching for her. Perhaps something in those messages caused Holt to change or abandon his original plan in mid-stream?

    Remember when the kids found her phone, and said there'd been a message from someone named "Scott," saying "we are looking for you," or something similar? This might be a stretch, but Gresham Police Det. Scott Hogan was working the case from the beginning according to this piece:
    http://www.kptv.com/story/19962560/detectives-in-whitney-heichel-case
    Wonder if it was LE trying to contact her, and how early that message showed up on her phone -- and whether Holt saw it? Did it say in the docs if/when Hogan or other LE may have attempted reaching her via her phone?

    (BTW, the video at the above link shows aerial footage of where Whitney's body was found on Larch Mountain. Just FYI, re discussing how far JH may have traveled in the Explorer.)

    Oh, and what time did they find Whitney's sweater? It was reportedly the "first clue found"... Is it possible her sweater was found before 9:14, and someone had called or messaged Whitney's phone regarding the find?

    At any rate, I doubt JH ever anticipated such an immediate, massive and rapid deployment of targeted/trained searchers. "Sixty carloads of people," "mobilized quickly" by trained search/rescue experts. So, who knows?

    --

    Search leader: Heichel's sweater first clue found by searchers
    By Dan Tilkin KATU News and KATU.com Staff Published: Oct 25, 2012 at 5:19 PM PST

    Weaver said they started their search at Heichel's apartment and from there sent out about 60 carloads of church members to scour remote areas for her. Those dozens, even hundreds, of searchers mobilized quickly. Searchers took cellphone pictures of areas highlighted on a map to use while searching.

    The searchers began to realize the situation was dire when they found Heichel's sweater.


    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Sear...-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html
     
  4. JulieR

    JulieR New Member

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    I wonder what JH did with his time after parking the explorer and being taken home by the Friends. Seems he was hiding out somewhere as people were out looking everywhere for Whitney.
     
  5. La Louve

    La Louve For Whitney and Teghan

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    BBM

    As has been stated numerous times here on these threads, Oregon does not have self serve gas pumps. It would have been nearly impossible for JH to "bolt" from the gas station without bringing even more attention to himself and the Explorer.
     
  6. La Louve

    La Louve For Whitney and Teghan

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    I've been wondering about this too. Seems like it would have been pretty risky for him to go home, even if his wife was at work. He could've been seen by someone else in the complex. Honestly what strikes me most likely is that he went to his dad's house in Parkrose. His dad would have been at work all day, on a predictable schedule, and JH would likely have had his childhood home to himself for most of the day. Seems like a place he might retreat to after committing this horrific crime.

    JMO
     
  7. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    Here’s a timeline from 8:40 to 9:14 from ME, LE, video surveillance and JH’s confession:

    8:40 AM

    Shoots and kills WH (Time of crime, per PDF)

    "Throws” cell phone into the lake (though really just onto the berm, w. side of telephone pole where car is pulled off the road )

    • PDF says that Hernandez, Hibbs, Peterson, and Surplus search turnout site (Roslyn Lake area) and Peterson finds black & silver cellphone on the berm on the n. side of the turnout, w. of the power pole.

    8:40 – 8:45 (minimally)

    Single-handedly lugs her body to back seat, then onto floor (120 lb. person when live is considerably heavier feeling when dead, hence the term ‘dead weight.’)

    • PDF says “seats” (plural) were cleaned off of blood except in the seams

    8:45 to 8:50 (minimally, I'd guess more)

    Cleans seats hurriedly with linens and Febreze; covers her body with linens, maybe lowers back seat partially as well, to hide more

    8:50 to 9:13

    Drives from Roslyn Lake on wet roads to the Shell Station and has attendant put small amount of gas in

    9:14

    Pays for gas with ATM card (per PDF and ATM records)

    ~

    Sasquatch, it has been so helpful to have read your comments, especially about the drive times, school zones, and wet road conditions that day. Do you think, given this scenario as reported by JH and recorded by the electronic evidence in the PDF, that the drive from Roslyn Lake to the Shell Station could have been made in 23 minutes? Would you be able to drive it, even speeding on wet roads, in 23 minutes?
     
  8. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    PDF says he told LE walked to his dad's house, but didn't go in as his dad was at work at Canteen and he wouldn't be able to talk to him. He says he walked to a lot of places, in fact, but didn't go in/wasn't seen by anyone. (For what that's worth.)
     
  9. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    We only have his word for that, I guess. But 2 hours of that time IS accounted for by others, at least. Amanda Judd called Amanda Holt to see how she was doing; when Amanda Holt said she was upset because JH was missing, Amanda Judd said no, he wasn't, he was walking around the Shell Station vicinity.

    Between that phone call and his arrival home was another 2 hours, spent with the Judds, according to the PDF.

    But if they were trying to calm him down, I guess it didn't work, as they reportedly "had to hit him" in order to get him to tell his wife he'd been robbed that day:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/oregon-bar...-day-kidnapped/story?id=17579986#.UKChVIVTule
     
  10. newsjunkie

    newsjunkie Not to be confused with A_News_Junkie

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    This was what he reported he did "after being robbed". If you are going to doubt other parts of his story, this part is highly unbelievable.
     
  11. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    Agreed; that's why I put 'for what that's worth.' No one part of JH's testimony is necessarily more unbelievable than another, but all parts (IMO) can be held as suspect, in that I believe some are definitely so (contradictory or illogical).
     
  12. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    BBM

    I wouldn't be surprised. A parking space at the Heatherwood Apts (in 2011) cost $15/month, with those not paying having to park in the street. Apparently you have your own space, though it may 'get taken' from time to time:

    http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/OR-Gresham-Heatherwood-1369521.html

    IF the Heichels only had one paid parking spot which maybe they took turns using, I'd be interested in knowing if Whitney's car was used for the jump start on JH's motorcycle the beginning of October. That could be an alternate explanation for the finger print LE lifted off her steering wheel.
     
  13. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    My guess is that JH made a guess to the exact time of the crime as 8:40am. 23 minutes would be way too tight from Roslyn Lake, especially if he veered off onto Dodge Park Blvd. It would have to be 35 minutes travel time at a minimum. It is pretty much straight road after you go past the curves near Dodge Park. There would probably be only a few stops going North, like Division Street and Stark Street.

    One thing that might have effected JH's judgement on the exact time, is the effect of tachypsychia (fight or flight reflex), which distorts time during a violent event.

    Tachypsychia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "The most common experience during tachypsychia is the feeling that time has either increased or slowed down, brought on by the increased brain activity cause by epinephrine, or the severe decrease in brain activity caused by the "catecholamine washout" occurring after the event.

    It is common for an individual experiencing tachypsychia to have serious misinterpretations of their surroundings during the events, through a combination of their altered perception of time, as well as transient partial color blindness and tunnel vision. After the irregularly high levels of adrenaline consumed during sympathetic nervous system activation, an individual may display signs and symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder, and it is common for the person to display extreme emotional lability and fatigue, regardless of their actual physical exertion."
     
  14. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    Thanks so much for your input, Sasquatch. I'm thinking the 8:40 time of death was given by the Medical Examiner if I'm remembering the pdf correctly--did JH also estimate 8:40 as time of death? (I'll check the pdf again...).
     
  15. La Louve

    La Louve For Whitney and Teghan

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    The affidavit indicated the DNA from the steering wheel was "swabbed". I assume that means something other than a finger print.

    And if Clint gave JH a jump, it's more likely that JH would be starting his motorcycle, once Clint had started his (or Whitney's) car. There would be no reason for JH to have his hands on the Heichel vehicle's steering wheel.
     
  16. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    I know it was on the Probable Cause for Lodging Document, listed as the time that the crime occurred. The document is dated as 10/21/2012, the day after the autopsy. I will have to look at the other docs, to see exactly where that 8:40am time comes from.

    Google maps shows that if you drive straight, that you can make it under 20 minutes with the different back routes. I was thinking with wet roads and the stop off at Dodge Park that time would be added on to that. So the time of travel is still quite possible.

    My initial thought was the 302nd route, because it is the quickest route to the Columbia River Hwy. But because of the phone ping and sweater being found, I figured Troutdale Road was more likely to be his route.
     
  17. Desdemona

    Desdemona * * * * Desi * * * *

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    BBM>> I respectfully but very strongly disagree.

    The elements of Holt's story which are refuted by evidence are definitely significantly less believable than details which are supported by evidence. JMO
     
  18. Desdemona

    Desdemona * * * * Desi * * * *

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    Also must disagree with PIM's timeline being sourced from only released info. Among other things, placing the cleaning of the vehicle at any specific point in the timeline is total speculation IMO.

    All we know about the cleaning is that it occurred after Whitney's death (possibly 8:40, but not known for certain), presumably after Whitney's body was left on Larch Mtn (time unknown, but probably at least 25 minutes after 9:14), and before the vehicle was abandoned at WalMart, which was a little after 11am. IMO in constructing a timeline supposedly based only on evidence released so far, the entries specifying time slots for the clean-up are not working for me, for those reasons. JMO
     
  19. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    You're missing the real point here LA Louve. Whether there's an attendant or not, Holt or anyone in Oregon for that matter, can have the gas stopped.

    The real point is why would Holt leave with so little gas, only to go down to the nearest gas station minutes away to get more gas. I'm conjecuring as to the WHY La Louve.

    La Louve, Do you have a theory why Holt left so fast or got so little gas? See, we're just speaking out loud, sharing thoughts, ideas. That's all my friend.
     
  20. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    I see your point, and could be that Holt never got behind the wheel at that point...but to me it's not a 100% given. (Meaning if I were his lawyer I'd be checking it out.) In jumping others' vehicles, I've been in situations where the two people involved went back and forth between being at the accelerator and holding the cables...especially if there were problems with starting it and the jump starting was over a protracted period of time. The motorcycle apparently had a history of trouble, so it may have taken more time.

    Yes, they did swab the steering wheel, and the article below says the DNA result was "one of the keys to his arrest." As we haven't been told the exact nature of that DNA result (sweat, fingerprint, skin particles, other?), I'd be interested in knowing if its presence could be could be explained by having been behind the wheel in a jump-start situation, since he denied ever driving her car. If I were his lawyer, especially.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/whitney_heichel_was_shot_four.html
     
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