GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[Quester]

Thanks for the answers!

So if cash is used, is that given before or after gas is pumped? TIA

ETA: I just read Newsjunkie's revision that cash was paid after gas was pumped. Thanks!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

No, it's taken. But you can have "FirstResponse":great:

That's okay...I like MayBNot? better, anyway.

 

[La Louve]

So in OR where a gas station attendant tends the pump, when do you pay – before or after the gas is pumped? I would assume the attendant first finds out how much gas the driver wants (e.g. fill her up or $25 worth). Is cash payment made or credit card turned over at that initial contact or after the gas has been pumped? TIA

In this case, we know that JH, in WH’s SUV, used WH’s credit card at the gas station at around 9:14(?) am.

If you are paying with a card, you hand the card to the attendant who swipes it in the reader at the pump. Once the card is authorized, the attendant hands you back your card and pumps your gas. When finished, the attendant puts the filler nozzle back in the pump, secures your gas cap and gives you a receipt. The limit on gas charged to a credit card is somewhere around $100-$150 per authorization, depending on the card you are using. Unless you specify that you want to run the charge as a debit rather than credit transaction, you don't have to get out of your car to enter your PIN.

If you are paying with cash, you generally have to get out of your vehicle and go inside to pay at the cashier.

 

[Kimster]

Thanks for the answers!

So if cash is used, is that given before or after gas is pumped? TIA

ETA: I just read Newsjunkie's revision that cash was paid after gas was pumped. Thanks!

I pay in cash most of the time because I don't like how they do that $75 deposit thing. I've never had them take the cash ahead of time. :waitasec: But then, I live in a rural area so they probably haven't been ripped off yet.

 

[newsjunkie]

I pay in cash most of the time because I don't like how they do that $75 deposit thing. I've never had them take the cash ahead of time. :waitasec: But then, I live in a rural area so they probably haven't been ripped off yet.

Where we were might be considered touristy, but definitely not big like Portland or Salem. Maybe that is why we paid with cash from the car after the gas was pumped.

 

[Desdemona]

I'd respectfully disagree; we have knowledge of some evidence at this point but we aren't privy to all of it--and some has yet to come out, as it will continue to be gathered by both sides of the case during discovery period.

In addition, without the benefit of trial proceedings, we can't know at this point how best to interpret the little evidence we are privy to. Evidence is subject to accurate interpretation before it 'means' anything; that's the point of a good trial.

But, as always, you are free to maintain your strong disagreement.

As a private citizen, I won't be directly involved in the trial at all. Trial proceedings are a long way off at any rate. What I am doing here and now is discussing this case on a public online forum, based on the information that is currently known. I have made it clear in my posts that this information is obviously not complete at this point.

My concern is the TRUTH about what happened to Whitney.

The whole point in questioning a suspect who is lying is to persuade him to admit or abandon the lies, and tell the TRUTH about the crime. Hence, the complete record of what a suspect has said to LE very often contains both lies and truth. The angle "If he's lying about one thing, we should doubt everything he has said" does not seem logical to me in the least.

To clarify (back to the OP) I maintain it is totally unreasonable to assume that the details in Holt's interview/confession which are supported by evidence are equally as suspect as details which he has recanted, or which are impossible or highly unlikely based on the evidence.

JMO

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The search party, when they found her sweater at Dodge Park, seemed to be especially concerned. Was that b/c there was blood on it, or that they found any sort of evidence indicating she'd come to some harm?

 

[Xavier]

I haven't hunted in years, but I believe you only need your deer tag and a hunting license in Oregon, and you are able to hunt on most public land. There isn't a check-in that I know of. Some private land requires you to get a permit to legally go past their gates and onto their property. Most places never require any kind of check in though.

On my earlier theory and timeline, I believed JH might have traveled a distance to Larch Mountain to hide WH's body, because he had target practiced there before and was familiar with the area. He grew up in East Portland and Larch Mountain has always been a popular shooting area for a lot of people in the Portland Metro area.

After reading the KATU information about where Weaver found the tire tracks and license plate, one thing stuck out to me. The milepost 10 marker on Larch Mountain. The evidence was found close to the popular shooting sites. Although I am not sure if they are legal shooting sites, I believe people go up there and target practice anyways.

KATU Info:

"Divided that in half (an hour and 15 minutes) and we started driving and seeing how far we can go in an hour and 15 minutes. (We) ended up at Larch Mountain, because of something on the Internet about Larch Mountain, which ended up not being true, but still, you got to do with every possible (lead); one hour 15 minutes, mile marker 9 up Larch Mountain Road – mile marker 10, it all worked out," Weaver said.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Search-leader-Whitney-Heichels-sweater-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html

Northwest Firearms Forum- (some local info for brainstorming, still need to further investigate for more sources)

"Larch Mt. three. This one, (the one I used to use years ago) was East of Corbett. It was closed after two teenagers took dad's AR-15 out and got into fight with another shooter who didn't want to share his shooting spot (the "Gallery") and ended up emptying a full mag on him.
"There were three separate spots on this Larch Mt. , the Gallery, just off Larch Mt. Road at mp. 10, the quarry, a couple miles from the Gallery on Palmer Mill Road, and the clearcut, at the North end of Palmer Mill Road. This place was for years the place to shoot if you were coming from Portland, as it was pretty close. I take it that all three of these locations are still closed, can anyone confirm this ? "

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/outdoor-shooting-areas/18480-larch-mountain-2.html

I believe Palmer Mill Road in that area was shut down last year because of all of the illegal dumping of stolen cars and garbage. I did find one more case back in 1981, where a body was dumped in the area after a murder. No relation to this case, but just interesting info about the area.
http://investigation.discovery.com/investigation/true-crime-stories/dwayne-gray/dwayne-gray.html

Job Well done Sasquatch.

 

[La Louve]

The search party, when they found her sweater at Dodge Park, seemed to be especially concerned. Was that b/c there was blood on it, or that they found any sort of evidence indicating she'd come to some harm?

I don't think we know at this point why the sweater was so concerning to the searchers and LE. But my guess would be blood.

 

[Xavier]

I am from Oregon, and hardly know how to pump my own gas! But to answer your question, I almost always use a credit card which the attendant puts into the slot on the pump prior to dispersing gas. In fact, he gives my credit card back almost immediately, and then gases my car up.

In JH's case, he was using Whitneys ATM card, he may have asked for just a small amount because he didn't know the limits of her card. First stop was a test along with great paranoia. JMO

QUOTE=caffeinejean;8554899]I am from Oregon, and hardly know how to pump my own gas!


Cafe Jean---Sorry, but that's pretty sad!! :blushing:

 

[Xavier]

I didn't miss your point, I just don't believe your point is material. Yes, you can have the gas stopped, but unless you want to attract a LOT of attention to yourself (or cause a fuel spill or fire) you cannot "bolt" (your word) from the gas station in a hurry if the pump is in your filler and the attendant has stepped away from the pump to help another customer - which is what normally happens if you ask to fill the tank. The attendant generally only stays at the pump if you ask for a specific amount, especially a small amount like $5 or $10.

My personal opinion is that JH asked for a small amount so the attendant would have to stay at the pump, watching the meter, not looking in the back of the car through the tinted windows, nor looking at license plate numbers and where JH could keep an eye on him. But that first stop didn't give him enough gas to get up to Larch Mtn. which necessitated another stop for gas.

La Louve----- BTW, "bolted" in my reference does not mean left without paying. It means he got outta there like a "bat outta Hell"..
So you think it's impossible Holt left Shell gas station because he:

1. Recognized a mutual friend of his/Whitney's, got spooked and "bolted"?

2. Saw the route driver from Holt's employer Canteen Vending, doing deliveries at Shell and did'nt want to get "busted" for not showing up at work?

3. Or that maybe the gas attendant at Shell got too nosy about the SUV that could've had "crime scene" written all over it?

 

[Xavier]

So in OR where a gas station attendant tends the pump, when do you pay – before or after the gas is pumped? I would assume the attendant first finds out how much gas the driver wants (e.g. fill her up or $25 worth). Is cash payment made or credit card turned over at that initial contact or after the gas has been pumped? TIA

In this case, we know that JH, in WH’s SUV, used WH’s credit card at the gas station at around 9:14(?) am.

I don't buy that Holt under estimated how much gas he needed.

IMO he saw someone from his church, a mutual of Whitney's/his, one of his co workers, maybe his mom or brother, relatives and got spooked Big Time and left without much gas at all.
And Holt knew someone would've became too nosy about the SUV and why he was driving it.

And maybe, just maybe, the gas attendant, who said he thought he saw a woman in the SUV, remembers this despite seeing hundreds of customers all day , because of Holt's demeanor and " hurried" behavior

Who buys 2 or 3 gallons these days anyways?

 

[Xavier]

It also speaks to the "canvassing of the apartment complex" on Wednesday (the 17th) and "received information leading them to Holt" on Wednesday.

Cafe jean--- did LE canvassing provide any clues or evidence? Like child *advertiser censored* or WH's belongings, some sickos steal women's underwear, etc...

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I don't think we know at this point why the sweater was so concerning to the searchers and LE. But my guess would be blood.

So is the thought that (since she was reportedly killed at the Roslyn Lake turn out) the sweater was left at Dodge Park after the murder, or enroute to the murder?

Or doesn't anyone know at this point?

 

[Sasquatch]

So is the thought that (since she was reportedly killed at the Roslyn Lake turn out) the sweater was left at Dodge Park after the murder, or enroute to the murder?

Or doesn't anyone know at this point?

My guess is that the evidence that they found on the sweater, tells the story. LE hasn't released those details to the public yet. WH's jacket that was found at Dodge Park (according to the Elder's Account of the event, link was taken down earlier) and the Koin and Katu photos showing the coffee cup, Loko cans, brown car mat, white object with red stains and red tags showing a glass marker and an apron marker all show probable evidence, but officially have not been released in the report. This probable evidence led me to believe Dodge Park was the first clean up site. Until they release the official details, we will not know for sure what is pertinant to the case.

 

[Desdemona]

The search party, when they found her sweater at Dodge Park, seemed to be especially concerned. Was that b/c there was blood on it, or that they found any sort of evidence indicating she'd come to some harm?

Under the circumstances unfolding the day Whitney disappeared, I believe the discovery of her sweater on the road out to Dodge Park would have caused concern regardless of its condition.

So far it's not been stated that there was any blood evidence on the sweater AFAIK, but I personally can see it's discovery causing special concern regardless. JMO

 

[Desdemona]

The search party, when they found her sweater at Dodge Park, seemed to be especially concerned. Was that b/c there was blood on it, or that they found any sort of evidence indicating she'd come to some harm?

P.S. Just re-read PIM's post -- I was not aware the sweater was found "at Dodge Park"??

Thought it was found near Orient Rd, on Dodge Park Blvd, six+ miles away from Dodge Park. Someone please clarify... TIA

--


ETA:

Actually, this is confusing me because I seem to recall PIM being the one to mention awhile back that the sweater was found 'near Orient' on Dodge Park Blvd and not at Dodge Park itself...ICBW, but don't think so.

ETA:

Found it here, in PIM's post from Nov. 1:

"The sweater was found north of Dodge Park/Roslyn Lake up near Orient (before you get to Roslyn Lake)[..]"

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR -*arrest* Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5


:waitasec: So, is there new info that has caused you to discount the original report of where the sweater was found, PIM? This is really confusing me. Can you tell? LOL

 

[Desdemona]

So is the thought that (since she was reportedly killed at the Roslyn Lake turn out) the sweater was left at Dodge Park after the murder, or enroute to the murder?

Or doesn't anyone know at this point?

Here is another post stating that Whitney's sweater was "left at Dodge Park" -- is this correct? TIA

 

[Sasquatch]

P.S. Just re-read PIM's post -- I was not aware the sweater was found "at Dodge Park"??

Thought it was found near Orient Rd, on Dodge Park Blvd, six+ miles away from Dodge Park. Someone please clarify... TIA

I heard of the rumor of a jacket being found at Dodge Park, but the only thing released by the News stations was the sweater found at the crossroads of Pleasant Home Road and Dodge Park Blvd. Whatever evidence that they found at Dodge Park, caused them to close it off to conduct an official search. I don't think they released what evidence was found there.


KATU News:
"We were looking for Whitney. We weren't looking for evidence," Weaver said by phone Thursday while traveling.

He said the first clue they found was Heichel's sweater.

"They found the sweater and we marked that on a map and focused on and used that as a direction to focus our search," Weaver said. "And then we found evidence at Dodge Park at two in the morning – guy called me and I said, 'wait there, call police and wait there till police shows up.'"

Church members found Heichel's sweater along Dodge Park Boulevard east of Gresham near the tiny town of Pleasant Home. It is six miles from Dodge Park where church members found more undisclosed clues.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Search-leader-Whitney-Heichels-sweater-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html

 

[Desdemona]

I heard of the rumor of a jacket being found at Dodge Park, but the only thing released by the News stations was the sweater found at the crossroads of Pleasant Home Road and Dodge Park Blvd. Whatever evidence that they found at Dodge Park, caused them to close it off to conduct an official search. I don't think they released what evidence was found there.

BBM>> Thank you!

Pleasant Home Rd runs north/south. It intersects with Dodge Park Blvd at the Pleasant Home Cemetery.

This intersection is 6+ miles from Dodge Park. The media reports said that the sweater -- the first evidence found -- was located 6+ miles from Dodge Park.

Also, searchers said that they LATER found possible evidence AT Dodge Park around 2am, and notified LE.

Again, from the article:

--

"They found the sweater and we marked that on a map and focused on and used that as a direction to focus our search," Weaver said. "And then we found evidence at Dodge Park at two in the morning – guy called me and I said, 'wait there, call police and wait there till police shows up.'"

Church members found Heichel's sweater along Dodge Park Boulevard east of Gresham near the tiny town of Pleasant Home. It is six miles from Dodge Park where church members found more undisclosed clues.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Sear...-first-clue-found-by-searchers-175893161.html