GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

[Xavier]

Just an FYI,

Here's a news link and what's really interesting are the reader's comments if you scroll down to the end of the story...Some of these you get the impression live in the Gresham area, possibly are privy to some intel...

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Neighbors-never-saw-Holt-Heichel-together-175099421.html

 

[Sasquatch]

Sas, first, thanks for this description! Did you notice whether the one car that went by slowed down to take a look at you?

Is it the type of location where, if a driver saw a lone car pulled over there at around 7am on a wet morning, he might slow down and inquire whether things were ok/ask if there was car trouble? I guess I'm asking whether it would be odd to see a car parked at that particular spot early in the morning (before the date of this crime).

You are welcome! It didn't sound like they slowed down, they just drove on by behind me. I had my back turned to the road, balancing the pot of roses in the grass, next to the power pole. When they drove by, the sound is pretty loud next to the turnout. If someone is in a vehicle next to the road, there is no doubt that a car just drove by. I suppose it might be enough sound and presence to put some panic in someone like JH if a vehicle did drive by that morning.

A lot of people in Oregon take their dogs in SUVs and park on the sides of roads to go on walks. I am not sure if someone would slow down and check, unless someone was checking under their hood or looked in distress. It does say No Trespassing on the pole, but the sign is nailed up high.

There were a lot of white utility vehicles driving around the North area of Roslyn Lake where the road splits, I am not sure if they were PGE/County or Portland Water Works trucks.

 

[caffeinejean]

I am curious why JH told LE that he "threw the cell phone into the lake" -- but after confessing Friday, and even taking LE to the crime scene that night, he didn't say also, "and here's the phone, which I didn't throw into the lake, but instead dropped at the telephone pole." That berm that the telephone pole is on is very, very small (see picture in previous pages), and the cell phone could easily have been pointed out that night while the officer was copying down the numbers on the two strips stapled to the pole. Instead, JH said nothing about the phone. LE returned the next morning to conduct the search -- and found it right there near the pole. In clear sight of anyone who drove onto the turnout. So...

1) why did he get rid of the phone in the first place?
2) if he thought it was evidence that needed to 'disappear' why would he drop it right there at the pole instead of pitching it into the woods across the street?
3) why would he tell LE he "threw it in the lake" when there is no lake even visible at that location anymore?

What's all this about throwing the phone into the Lake? I can't find any reference in the affidavit/probable cause docs about this statement ever being said by JH.
If you read the Clackamas County Probable Cause
Holt+PC+doc probable cause
it says in the summary "Mr. Holt then disposed of his cellular phone at Roslyn Lake after the shooting." In the second paragraph it states "Mr. Holt's cellular phone was located at Roslyn Lake."

In the Affidavit for Search Warrant
holt1-1.pdf
it says (page 6 first paragraph) "Jonathan Holt continued to possess and use the iPhone after the date he stole it, up until the day of the murder, when he discarded the cell phone at the location where he murdered Whitney Heichel."
And further in the document it states " (page 8 first paragraph) "They searched the area and Detective Peterson located a black and silver iPhone on the berm on the north side of the turn-out and just west of the power pole."

Anyway, I am familiar with Roslyn Lake and it is still called that by locals, police, and media. Old geezers like me would still say "over by Roslyn Lake".
It was drained in 2008, so not that long ago. It had been a place to picnic and fish and row your boat for many families, companies, and the like for at least a few generations of Portlanders. There was a big beach, toddler play areas, a softball field, bathrooms and showers and way back when... even concessions. You could even rent those silly paddle boats and bikes.

More than likely JH, his family, friends and school used Roslyn Lake for some event.

 

[Sasquatch]

Yes, I can see why he'd refer to the area as 'the lake', don't get me wrong. But I just can't see why he'd say he threw the phone into the lake, when there was no body of water within throwing distance of that pole (and it was thrown on the ground by the pole, instead). Does that clarify? (or still clear as mud, as kodi would say? )
/QUOTE]

I Googled Roslyn Lake to figure out what trees are growing there in the lake bed, where there used to be water. I couldn't get close enough to make them out. I believe there is a grove of Alder Trees growing there.

On a side note, the future of Roslyn Lake will most likely become an Elephant Reserve for the Oregon Zoo. In the next few years Metro will probably be creating habitat for herds of elephants on that land. This is the first time, I have heard about these plans. Here is the article from a few years ago. I guess it is still being studied. Roslyn Lake area will probably not be called a Lake for too much longer.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/the_oregon_zoos_master_plan_in.html

 

[caffeinejean]

Yes, I can see why he'd refer to the area as 'the lake', don't get me wrong. But I just can't see why he'd say he threw the phone into the lake, when there was no body of water within throwing distance of that pole (and it was thrown on the ground by the pole, instead). Does that clarify? (or still clear as mud, as kodi would say? )

ETA: Bing map...maybe this will help me figure this out at least, lol.

Thanks for the map. I can't make out where the power pole is on the berm, but
that's a big berm! Held in alot o'lake once. When using the footage marker on the map it looks to be 650 to 700 feet. Is that right? Look at in relation to the house up the street. Maybe sasquatch could tell us where the pole is on the berm?

 

[Sasquatch]

Thanks for the map. I can't make out where the power pole is on the berm, but
that's a big berm! Held in alot o'lake once. When using the footage marker on the map it looks to be 650 to 700 feet. Is that right? Look at in relation to the house up the street. Maybe sasquatch could tell us where the pole is on the berm?

The telephone pole is North of the blue dot. You will see the road directly above the dot, then a black area. The black area is the small drain ditch and the pole sits North, right above it. On the other side of the pole is the 200 ft foot turnaround, then the berm. The berm is about 3 1/2 feet tall. I do not remember how wide it is on top. It is grassy with a few boulders and a few young fir trees planted. The length of the berm has to be 400 hundred feet at least. Now it is so overgrown, it is hard to tell. Both the turnaround and the berm seem buried in all of the overgrowth. Google Maps from last year shows the berm small. This year the berm and trees look taller and the drain ditch has been dug out. Google Maps from Aug 2011, definitely makes the terrain look flatter.

-------berm----------
/-------Turnaround-----\
(pole)
====drainditch=====
====Road========
blue Dot

You can go all the way to street view on Google Maps, as if you were standing on a ladder in the street. Click on the address and drag the golden guy to the street for a street view!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...-122.243757&spn=0.00848,0.016887&z=16&iwloc=A

 

[Boodles]

Agree and thanks to the poster who pointed out that the phone was not found in the turnout, but rather, on the berm.

If JH said he threw it in the lake (I don't remember all the details), it could be he threw the phone in the direction of the "lake" and it didn't clear the berm.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

[/B]

What's all this about throwing the phone into the Lake? I can't find any reference in the affidavit/probable cause docs about this statement ever being said by JH.
If you read the Clackamas County Probable Cause
Holt+PC+doc probable cause
it says in the summary "Mr. Holt then disposed of his cellular phone at Roslyn Lake after the shooting." In the second paragraph it states "Mr. Holt's cellular phone was located at Roslyn Lake."

In the Affidavit for Search Warrant
holt1-1.pdf
it says (page 6 first paragraph) "Jonathan Holt continued to possess and use the iPhone after the date he stole it, up until the day of the murder, when he discarded the cell phone at the location where he murdered Whitney Heichel."
And further in the document it states " (page 8 first paragraph) "They searched the area and Detective Peterson located a black and silver iPhone on the berm on the north side of the turn-out and just west of the power pole."

Anyway, I am familiar with Roslyn Lake and it is still called that by locals, police, and media. Old geezers like me would still say "over by Roslyn Lake".
It was drained in 2008, so not that long ago. It had been a place to picnic and fish and row your boat for many families, companies, and the like for at least a few generations of Portlanders. There was a big beach, toddler play areas, a softball field, bathrooms and showers and way back when... even concessions. You could even rent those silly paddle boats and bikes.

More than likely JH, his family, friends and school used Roslyn Lake for some event.

Good point caffeinejean, and I double-checked the PDF yesterday to see if I'd read it there. But didn't--it was in an early article, and the only reason I remember reading it was because I read it out loud to my husband and asked him, "Can an iPhone's information/contents be retrieved if it's been in the water?" He answered (surprisingly to me), yes--if it hasn't been submerged too long. (I, too, did not know at the time that Roslyn Lake is not really a 'lake' anymore.)

So that's why I remember the 'throwing into the lake' thing...I'll take a look and see if I can find the article again.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Yes, I can see why he'd refer to the area as 'the lake', don't get me wrong. But I just can't see why he'd say he threw the phone into the lake, when there was no body of water within throwing distance of that pole (and it was thrown on the ground by the pole, instead). Does that clarify? (or still clear as mud, as kodi would say? )

I Googled Roslyn Lake to figure out what trees are growing there in the lake bed, where there used to be water. I couldn't get close enough to make them out. I believe there is a grove of Alder Trees growing there.

On a side note, the future of Roslyn Lake will most likely become an Elephant Reserve for the Oregon Zoo. In the next few years Metro will probably be creating habitat for herds of elephants on that land. This is the first time, I have heard about these plans. Here is the article from a few years ago. I guess it is still being studied. Roslyn Lake area will probably not be called a Lake for too much longer.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/02/the_oregon_zoos_master_plan_in.html

Thanks, Sas--check the quoted post again (up above); I did a Bing map on the area; looks like due north of the turnout is lower-growing green plant life. Trees to the east and west and also on the south side of the road.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Telephone pole mystery solved! Thought I'd remembered someone posting this pic earlier:

So, thoughts:

IF the phone was on the berm next to the turnout, then it was tossed there, it didn't accidentally fall out of someone's pocket during the murder. But why tossed there that Tuesday morning, if trying to get rid of it, rather than into the trees across the road, which would have hidden it much more permanently?

*And why the need to get rid of it if turned off, and the last call/info transaction he'd had on it was 6:08 AM when presumably he was still up in the Gresham area--with no connection to the murder site? If turned off, no ping.

Okay, I'm off to look for the 'threw it into the lake' article...

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Did a search for "Holt threw phone into lake" and came up with several articles posted Oct. 22 and Oct. 23:

Oct. 22, 6:55 PM (Steve Mayes)

“After that, he threw his own cell phone into the lake and took Heichel's body to Larch Mountain where he concealed it.”
http://mobile.oregonlive.com/advorg/db_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=NRiEsQiW&full=true


Oct. 23 article:

“Holt threw his cell phone into the lake.”
http://www.kxl.com/10/23/12/Holt-Wa...chel/landing.html?blockID=642129&feedID=10446


October 23, 11:49 AM article:

“Holt told investigators that he then threw his cell phone into Roslyn Lake and drove to Larch Mountain, where he attempted to hide Heichel’s body.”
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/jonathan-holt


October 23, 10:38 AM

According to a probable cause affidavit, Holt told Sgt. Jon Harrington of the Oregon State Police that he waited outside Heichel’s apartment in the Heatherwood complex in Gresham where they both lived early Tuesday, Oct. 16. When she left for work about 6:45 a.m., he asked her for a ride, the document said. Holt, 24, told Harrington that about five minutes into the ride, he pulled a gun on Heichel while they were on Hogan Drive in Gresham. He said he then took her at gunpoint to Roslyn Lake in Clackamas County, where he forced her to perform oral sex on him. He then shot and killed her, the document said.

After that, he threw his own cell phone into the lake and took Heichel's body to Larch Mountain where he concealed it. She was killed Tuesday and her body was found on Larch Mountain.
http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/jonathan_holts_employer_offers.html


October 23, 4:21 PM, updated Oct. 23, 6:05 AM

“After that, he threw his own cell phone into the lake and took Heichel's body to Larch Mountain where he concealed it.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/jonathan_holt_disappeared_with.html

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

<snipped by me>
There were a lot of white utility vehicles driving around the North area of Roslyn Lake where the road splits, I am not sure if they were PGE/County or Portland Water Works trucks.

Sasquatch, I'm interested in the "white utility vehicles" - have heard one described by LE as being in the Walmart parking lot parked next to Whitney's car at one point.

Also thought I remembered seeing a white truck in a random Google or Bing photo of that Walmart parking lot. I'm going to see if I can crop it and make it bigger and get your opinion on if that is the sort of truck everyone is talking about.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

This is a cropped screenshot of the Bing map that Neptune's coordinates provided--the blue spot being where Whitney's car was found abandoned. This photo is not actual time, but a Bing map shot taken earlier, so the white truck in this photo is not relevant to the crime done this year. But I'm still curious...is the white truck parked on the left in this screenshot at all similar to the "white utility vehicles" Sasquatch and/or LE have been referring to?

 

[Sasquatch]

Thanks, Sas--check the quoted post again (up above); I did a Bing map on the area; looks like due north of the turnout is lower-growing green plant life. Trees to the east and west and also on the south side of the road.

The Google Map must have been taken in 2010 and posted in 2011, because the lake now has a line of trees in the Lake Bed, blocking the view across the Lake and the berm is grassier and higher. The drain ditch in front of the pole has been dug out and is now a few feet deep. The area is more of a boxed in effect than is shown here. I was surprised to see trees so high in the lake bed, but then again, I quit fishing the lake in 2008 when they drained it. Most people who fished the lake for Steelhead (sea run rainbows that were thrown in by ODFW) would fish at the NE side where the water came in. I do remember the berm was wide enough for lawn chairs for the trout fishermen. I didn't go up there this time, respecting the No Trespassing signs.

 

[Sasquatch]

This is a cropped screenshot of the Bing map that Neptune's coordinates provided--the blue spot being where Whitney's car was found abandoned. This photo is not actual time, but a Bing map shot taken earlier, so the white truck in this photo is not relevant to the crime done this year. But I'm still curious...is the white truck parked on the left in this screenshot at all similar to the "white utility vehicles" Sasquatch and/or LE have been referring to?

The white utility vehicles are most likely PGE which owns the Roslyn Lake Property or Portland Water Works. Not related to the white utility vehicles near Walmart, that I know of. There is a substation building across the street from Dodge Park. (I am blanking out who the Substation is for, but for some utility)
It is common to see these trucks around the area of Dodge Park. I think a few of them had buckets on them, like power trucks. The Portland Metro area receives its water from Bull Run River, which runs North of Dodge Park and Roslyn Lake. In fact the huge pipleline runs across the river further North from Dodge Park as well.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

The Google Map must have been taken in 2010 and posted in 2011, because the lake now has a line of trees in the Lake Bed, blocking the view across the Lake and the berm is grassier and higher. The drain ditch in front of the pole has been dug out and is now a few feet deep. The area is more of a boxed in effect than is shown here. I was surprised to see trees so high in the lake bed, but then again, I quit fishing the lake in 2008 when they drained it. Most people who fished the lake for Steelhead (sea run rainbows that were thrown in by ODFW) would fish at the NE side where the water came in. I do remember the berm was wide enough for lawn chairs for the trout fishermen. I didn't go up there this time, respecting the No Trespassing signs.

Thanks for your input, Sasquatch!

The photo with the telephone pole says Google 2012, Image Date: Aug. 2011.

The other (Bing) maps I've posted have "2012 © Nokia" "2012 © Microsoft Corporation" at the bottom; copyright is usually in effect from the moment intellectual/photographic property is put in print. They generally take these satellite shots once a year--could be these were taken in 2011, and then copyrighted in 2012 when entered into the Bing maps database.

Stuff grows fast where there used to be water, I'd gather.

 

[Sasquatch]

Thanks for your input, Sasquatch!

The photo with the telephone pole says Google 2012, Image Date: Aug. 2011.

The other (Bing) maps I've posted have "2012 © Nokia" "2012 © Microsoft Corporation" at the bottom; copyright is usually in effect from the moment intellectual/photographic property is put in print. They generally take these satellite shots once a year--could be these were taken in 2011, and then copyrighted in 2012 when entered into the Bing maps database.

Stuff grows fast where there used to be water, I'd gather.

I guess Alder trees grow pretty fast. Some grow over 3 feet per year!
Birch Trees grow probably 2 feet per year. That explains why the trees looked taller in real life than on Google Maps a year earlier. Google Maps camera sits on top of the vehicle when taking the photos, giving a different perspective and angle.

http://s3.freefoto.com/images/810/12/810_12_6054_web.jpg

 

[kodi]

To my knowledge, a cell won't ping when turned off.

We know that JH's cell, as you said, sent it's last communication transfer at 6:08am. Without going back through the pdf, I'm unsure if there's a specific time or merely a generalized time of when his calls started going directly to VM.

As for WH's cell, IIRC, the last communication to her phone was sometime between 9am and 10am, but I believe that's a much narrower, known time frame because of the frequent calls to her. Again, without looking through the pdf, I don't have the exact times.

Hopefully that's not clear as mud. *chuckles*

No, those are good thoughts! I don't remember the pdf mentioning when JH's phone started going to voicemail (don't think it did specify, just that Amanda said it did when she called him during the day, before she knew he was missing). But when I think about the situation, I'm thinking he must've turned it off pretty soon, perhaps even prior to 'the crime' at 8:40. Because I'm guessing his dad would've called him even earlier than that if he didn't show up at work for his 6 AM shift that day. Chris Holt (his dad) also works at Canteen and was calling him and looking for him that day when he didn't show up. Curious that he didn't call AH at her job when he was looking for him--she didn't know JH was missing until getting home, apparently. You'd think he'd have her cell number.

Yay! I figured out how to multi-quote my first try! :rocker: I probably should snip for space...but let me enjoy the moment, please. *chuckles*

Okay, I've spent the morning going through the PDF again and this is what I found.

In regards to WH's cell, the first communication (specifically listed in the PDF) was from a call received in at 7:06am from Starbucks and the last communications were 3 text messages 9:07am per her logs from AT&T. Of the received calls noted, there are two (7:07am and 8:23am) that do not have GPS locations and of those two calls, one (7:07am) went to VM while the other (8:23am) did not. (PDF pgs. 10 & 11)

I'm unsure of the significance of this, if any, but I am curious about it. Does it mean her phone was turned off or was there a temporary break in service? I pulled up a coverage map for AT&T and have tried my best to compare it to a google map of the area and JH's account of what transpired that terrible day. I think the information could certainly support some of his account, or dispute it. BTW, I still think it's possible he could've found the time to go through her cell during the early hours of her abduction. JMO, of course.

AT&T Coverage Map: http://www.wireless.att.com/coverag...5.4735931640625&lon=-122.11118930664064&sci=6

As for JH's cell, per the PDF, the only usage in his log was the 6:08am call to Starbucks. There were 30 other phone calls made to his phone that day, none of which connected, indicating the phone was not receiving calls or service. (PDF pg. 17)

So, IMO, JH turned his phone off after he placed the call to Starbucks or sometime soon after. Interestingly enough, his GPS location isn't noted, one way or the other.

I had another thought as I was perusing...

JH took the Scion to work on the day before and sent AH a text at 2:33pm letting her know he put $20 of gas in the car and then he picked her up from work later that evening at 5:15pm. (PDF pg. 17) So it's possible, IMO, he had nearly three hours that afternoon to himself.

Perhaps he used this time to prepare some? Maybe do a test drive? Or leave items at a location ahead of time anticipating his need of them? That being said, he also could've spent the afternoon fixing his motorcycle or simply said that's what he did - AH said it wasn't unusual for him to take her car because his bike wasn't working and he didn't want to to ride in the rain - he didn't take his bike Monday but then took it Tuesday (or led her to believe it anways by removing it from the porch).

I'm just trying to think outside the box.

 

[AvalonBlue]

Are the margins totally blown out on this page for anyone else?

I think it has to do with large map pics further up on the page.

Advice?

Thanks in advance;-)

 

[Bravo]

Are the margins totally blown out on this page for anyone else?

I think it has to do with large map pics further up on the page.

Advice?

Thanks in advance;-)

No worries. Happens often. Larger pics do blow the margins. All will be good and back to normal when we get to the next page.