GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Knox, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. caffeinejean

    caffeinejean New Member

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    Just to add to JH trait list:

    High School Graduate 3.35 overall grade point average (2006)

    Certified Emergency Medical Technician (EMT 2010)

    Loner, Quiet, Shy
     
  2. westsidefox64

    westsidefox64 Active Member

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    Im amazed after seeing the pictures that this wasnt a much more secluded spot. Wasnt at all like I was picturing in my mind.

    Sasq did you notice any glass on the ground? and which direction would he have been parked in there? If anyone knows
     
  3. La Louve

    La Louve For Whitney and Teghan

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    I agree. I have a hard time picturing the Explorer being parked there from 7:30-ish (presuming it was driven straight to the scene from the abduction point) until 8:40; over an hour. Especially at that time of the morning when there could be a school bus or two going by.

    For some reason I have imagined that the sexual assault occurred in Dodge Park itself, JH then drove out of the park and down toward Roslyn Lake, pulled into the turnout, and shot Whitney there.
     
  4. BrownEyedGirl80

    BrownEyedGirl80 New Member

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    I posted a link a few weeks ago with additional information about Whitney's case, but the post was deleted. Being new to WS, I contacted a WS administrator to find out if I broke any rules by posting the information and the link, so that I might understand the rules for future reference. However, I never received a response from an administrator; therefore, I'm not posting the link again, but if you would like to read some additional information on her case go to Google and do a search for the phrase "Whitney Heichel first hand account" and then click on the first result that comes up. I hope I'm not breaking any rules here. Just want to share information with those who care about Whitney's case.
     
  5. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    Thank you for compiling this list, it is very helpful! I am definitely interested in the "why" as well.

    It is very puzzling how JH can be so organized in some things, yet disorganized in others.

    Some more interesting quotes that I forgot to put down, were on page 95 and 96 (have to scroll down) from a book titled "Signature Killers" by Keppel/Birnes:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=oFSkDFSqeSkC&pg=PA89&lpg=PA89&dq=anger-retaliatory+killer&source=bl&ots=-6UW8ELwzT&sig=jNg7_0mSwgfyTGNfnq3wQPGQHl8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zIaqUNLXI6TVigKFmoHACg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=anger-retaliatory%20killer&f=false

    Page 95 talks about the Anger-Retaliatory Rapist crime scene : "The rapid exchange of feelings the Anger-Retaliatory Killer experiences explains the often bizarre contradictions investigators discover at the killer's crime scene."

    Page 96: " The killer is on an emotional high while committing his violent acts, and so he has a tendency to leave a lot of evidence behind. When crime is disorganized, the death scene and body location scene are the same, and therefore loaded with clues"........"Alternatively, when the organized-type offender resists the tendency toward disorganization, he may only give superficial attention to cleanup, removal of weapons, and establishing an alibi".

    (this last part reminds me of the Febreeze wipe-down, 9mm taken from the scene(but not the s&B casings) and the story of being robbed.)
     
  6. newsjunkie

    newsjunkie Not to be confused with A_News_Junkie

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    It was probably due to the religious content at the link.
     
  7. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    There are very few vehicles that use Thomas Road from what I have seen. Most people use Ten Eyke Road around the Roslyn Lake area, to and from Sandy. The pictures do not show, that this spot is an area of isolation and a pocket in between trees. Dense forest to the South right up to the road. There are no sidewalks. There are groves of bushes and trees in the front lake bed, so you can not see anybody North and it is a great distance from the other road. The turnout is a quiet place of seclusion and shaded. A black vehicle with tinted windows would make it difficult to see on a cloudy day unless you actually drove down that road. Dodge Park has secluded areas in the back, but is used by fishermen and has a utility substation across the street. According to the documents the sexual assault and murder happened at Roslyn Lake, then evidence was found Dodge Park. Possibly a brown mud floor mat and and apron (Koin and Katu photos)
     
  8. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    It is a secluded pocket and Thomas Road is not a main road. It is pretty shaded and with a dark vehicle during a drizzly morning, it would be difficult to see. There wasn't any glass on the ground. The only out of place items were a plastic toy drill on a rock and a purple flattened plastic tampon applicator in the mud (middle of turnout) that looked as if it had been there a while. There is usually a lot of debris around the side of the roads, so this does not seem out of place.
     
  9. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    Thanks for the post BrownEyedGirl80. I have read this account and it was probably pulled because the note was from a Kingdom Hall Church Elder. Some social media sites pulled it down due to some inaccuracies. I found it very interesting and worth reading, but I believe they do not want religious links on this forum as part of their policies.
     
  10. BrownEyedGirl80

    BrownEyedGirl80 New Member

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    I guess I have a hard time understanding how one can discuss this case without occasionally bringing up the fact that she was a member of JW. I think that people who discuss her religion are not doing so to bash JW, but just to discuss how it pertains to her case (i.e., she knew her killer from her church as he and his wife were also members, her congregation lead a search for her that resulted in finding evidence, the media reports about the community memorial held at the Kingdom Hall, etc.) To me, discussing the fact of which church she belonged to is just a part of who Whitney was. In my opinion, discussing the fact that she was a JW is no different than discussing the fact that she was a barista at Starbuck's, drove a Ford Explorer, lived in Heatherwood Aparments, was the wife of Clint, etc.) :waitasec:
     
  11. AvalonBlue

    AvalonBlue Member

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    I'm thinking the fact that the JW link wasn't an MSM link is more the issue than actual religious content; although I know this thread has verged at times far enough into the JW religion to break other TOS and cause "bickering" that got the thread off topic.

    JMO

    HTH :seeya:
     
  12. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    We can only guess at this point, which direction the Explorer was facing. I am sure with the evidence that LE collected at the Roslyn Lake site, that it probably tells a better story. WH's Explorer had mud on the rear tires along with mud and pine needles in the wheel wells, when they found it at Walmart. There is a possibility that the Explorer was facing West in the West end turnout. Maybe the back wheels were in one of the puddles/ruts or in some mud and the front tires were on more stable ground. When I drove out to Roslyn Lake to drop off the roses, I don't remember seeing any pine needles in the turnout. But the next day I did find some yellow/green pine needles on my floor mat that got carried in. So it is possible that the pine needles on WH's Explorer, could have been mixed in the mud from Roslyn. I also believe there were other mud tracks found, at Dodge Park and at the side of the road at Larch Mountain. I believe the mud tracks tipped them off to some of of the evidence found. As far as the mist on the passenger side, I am not sure about. Possibly highway truck mist when you drive in the passing lane? I am not quite sure how to interpret that one, when the other side seemed cleaner.

    According to the below website link, LE might be able to tell a story with the soil as forensic evidence. There are different soils at different locations. Roslyn Lake had water piped down many miles from Marmot Dam, via a water duct, bringing down minerals from the Upper Sandy River. Once the lake was drained, they did a lot of bulldozing dirt around the site.
    There are probably different plants growing around the Roslyn Lake area, so it is highly likely, that Roslyn Lake would have a different soil mixture than Larch Mountain. This is another possible way of linking the vehicle, WH and JH to different locations.

    http://www.crimeandclues.com/index.php/forensic-science-a-csi/trace-a-dna/20-analysis-and-collection-of-soil-samples

    "Soil is considered trace evidence. Soil is made up of disintegrated surface material which can be organic, mineral or synthetic. The ratio of the mineral content compared to other matter in the soil can be very site specific"........

    ....."Soil samples when properly taken can tell an investigator a lot about where a victim or suspect has been. Analysis of soil samples taken from vehicles can also tell an investigator about where a vehicle has been. Analysis of foot wear, clothing and tires can also place a suspect or victim in a particular location."
     
  13. kodi

    kodi Well-Known Member

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    <snipped>

    BBM

    I almost feel this disorganization was meant to go with a possible theory of whomever it was that supposedly robbed JH could have abducted and killed WH, as well. This could be especially true if JH was trying to sterotype his would-be robbers and try to fit them into a mold of possible drug users or addicts with evidence which appeared to be haphazardly strewn about the counties. When you think about it, the only thing addicts usually are looking for is their next fix and not thinking about what it takes to get them there, so getting rid of evidence in this manner might not seem that far out to LE. I've always felt he believed his story would provide an alibi for himself and take any suspicion that might be on him due to his absence from work and unavailability to those trying to reach him throughout the day. Only my opinion, of course.
     
  14. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    You are welcome, Thank You!
     
  15. JulieR

    JulieR New Member

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    Sad thing is that first article was copy and pasted from face book, that site is nothing more then a JW bashing site. Would it matter if she was Baptist, Mormon or into Catholicism then her religion wouldn't even matter. People of all faiths kill each other everyday. I am so happy the family is using this to help others and finding peace with what happen.
     
  16. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    I agree that there is not a clear-cut categorizing in this case. For me, profiling a 'type' of killer and then trying to match it with someone who&#8217;s been arrested doesn&#8217;t work. If you have a suspect, you have one due to the evidence; profiling is just a tool initially used in considering possible suspects. Profiling helps LE to try to envision who might be a likely suspect, and if the crime could be related to other unsolved crimes. And not all characteristics are always present in the person finally arrested for a particular crime. A profile is just that&#8212;a composite collection of general traits, that statistically correlate, but not a description of one specific person.

    In considering this crime, now that there is a suspect, it helps to keep focus on the evidence at hand, IMO. Based on the evidence&#8212;not the &#8216;maybes&#8217; from unsubstantiated people leaving comments in news articles, or theoretical profiles&#8212;here is some alternative characteristic trait listing. I&#8217;ve left off traits in this list concerning anything Holt confessed to concerning the crime, as one of his seeming indisputable traits is that he is prone to changing his story&#8212;so what he says is not a reliable source of &#8216;evidence&#8217; to back up this list, IMO. I&#8217;ve put the back up evidence for each trait in parentheses.

    I&#8217;ve put off writing this, as I&#8217;m generally not fond of dissecting other&#8217;s traits online, so I write this with the caveat that this is simply my own opinion, not put forth as factual about JH&#8217;s nature and being. I&#8217;ve never met him, and I&#8217;m sure there are more things I don&#8217;t know about him than things I might think I do. These impressions have been gleaned simply based on what the evidence in this case so far suggests to me:

    JH &#8211; seeming character traits based on testimony in pdf and news account interviews:

    &#8226; Quiet, and not known to have been a trouble maker&#8212;in fact, the last person several would have thought would have been involved in this (news interviews with neighbors and childhood friends)

    &#8226; Anxious/tentative, about marriage, pleasing his wife, job security and pleasing his boss, personal financial situation, religious faith, social interactions with others (news accounts, his testimony as corroborated by Amanda&#8217;s and others&#8217;)

    &#8226; Passive by nature, resistant to violence, possibly to the point of being considered weak or a &#8216;pushover&#8217;&#8211; (bullied in school)

    &#8226; People-pleaser to those he cared about (converted to JW faith in order to marry longtime sweetheart Amanda in 2010)

    &#8226; Willing to lie as a result of all of the above, but not very good at it (changing stories to LE during interviews); not a skilled or smooth liar, so likely not a habitual one. Preferring to be avoidant of people and conflict altogether, keeping thoughts and fears to himself (Amanda&#8217;s testimony).

    &#8226; Generally a loner (likely as a result of the above), though he had some friends; close to his family, particularly his younger brother who he frequently hung out with (news interviews with neighbors and school friends)

    &#8226; Reasonably intelligent & industrious (2006 high school GPA 3.35; trained for and received 2010 Certified Emergency Medical Technician; has held several low-to-moderate paying jobs since then, with trouble keeping jobs since his marriage in 2010; has made the effort to drive 45 min. each way in his current low-paying job and was anxious about being late)

    &#8226; Frequent loss of job since conversion and marriage in 2010; frequent changing of low-cost living quarters in two years of marriage (her folks&#8217; house in 2010 after marriage, another apt in Gresham August 2011 to 2012, Heatherwood Apts., August 2012&#8212;per news accounts and pdf)

    &#8226; Escalating marital tensions and increasing personal insecurity (testimony by wife, record of gun purchase in June 2012, two months prior to move to Heatherwood Apts.)

    &#8226; Depressive, low self-esteem personality type (wife&#8217;s corroborating testimony he felt like a failure; his wearing a suicide jacket, weeping visible tears, looking down, mumbling one-word answers in court appearance video)


    Traits of the crime on October 16:


    &#8226; WH killed by 4 gunshots while in the car in what is known as the double-tap method of killing favored by hired hit-men. Double tap killing originated as a military maneuver of one shot to the head and one shot to the heart, which made &#8216;double&#8217; certain the enemy would be left dead. (Early news accounts related she was shot twice in the face/head, and twice in chest/torso. Accounts have been pulled and LE and ME keeping mum now on the details.)

    &#8226; First shot quite likely through her front passenger closed window--possibly with her facing the window while keeping the door locked against entry--this break of the window would gain access for the other 3 shots. (PDF: account of biological evidence on front windshield, car seat and console, earring back on back seat floor, pile of glass shards on floor between passenger front seat and window; single bullet casing found &#8216;on top of the pile,&#8217; which would not have rolled up there with car movement. Other three bullet casings also found on the floor of the car.)

    &#8226; Unknown form of DNA found on steering wheel of car implicating JH.

    &#8226; WH likely killed prior to Shell station video showing front passenger window &#8216;gone&#8217; (pdf: shattered glass on floor by door with bullet casing implies this).

    &#8226; Cursory clean up of car was not to prevent LE from finding blood (2&#8217;x3&#8217; pool left on back seat floor); clean up was only a cursory, &#8220;casual-glance&#8221; clean up, of the seats and front windshield area; (gas attendants did not mention seeing blood through the open passenger window, though one attendant reported to police he thought he saw someone who looked like Whitney sitting there).

    &#8226; License plate purposefully left on the mountain during the trip up to leave her body there. (No loose screws also found, no broken plastic mounting also found to indicate it broke off, no loose plate dangling in the Shell video to suggest it fell off, no dirty or damaged front end of car to suggest it was pulled off in the brush.)

    &#8226; Killer was aware that front plate was missing after coming back down the mountain and leaving car at Walmart (took pains to park the car by backing into the space).

    Traits of WH&#8217;s Killer:

    *As we don&#8217;t know the particular sexual evidence left at the scene, I&#8217;m leaving that area out, for now, since the only specific reference in the pdf is Holt&#8217;s own unreliable testimony. To complicate matters, a sociopathic, professional killer also has the inclination and the skills to purposefully plant certain types of evidence, so I&#8217;m trying to describe &#8220;the Killer&#8221; simply using the evidence that is well-documented at this point.

    &#8226; Whitney&#8217;s survival and testimony was &#8216;not an option&#8217; to her perp (shot 4x in vital areas of body)

    &#8226; Absolute cold-blooded and callous disregard for human life (coolness and steady action under pressure; a hit man style of kill&#8212;able to shoot a terrified, beautiful woman in the face, head and chest 4x and then throw her body onto the back floor; hasty clean up of blood/biologic evidence before driving the death scene and body around her home turf over a period of time for gas, disposal of body on mountain and car in parking lot&#8230;.all within a tight timeframe)

    &#8226; Physically aggressive, with no fear of violence (overly aggressive kill with 4 shots/bullet casings; two guns implicated and retrieved for evidence)

    &#8226; Methodical, and capable of inordinate planning for what he wants (abduction, assault/murder; license plate removal/positional parking of car; some evidence clean up/some evidence drops all around the area. *Note: A professional, experienced killer would be careful to only leave evidence that wouldn&#8217;t implicate himself.)

    &#8226; Manipulates a crime scene for desired effect on people&#8217;s reactions or lack of reactions (cursory blood clean up, dropping license plate on mountain)

    &#8226; Sociopathic narcissist (manner of kill, manipulates situations and people for personal gain)

    *Note:
    A sociopathic narcissist would NEVER be suicidal. His world revolves around himself, and all of his actions are designed to further Self. The rest of the world, however, is completely dispensable, to be used for the purposes of Self. (Two psychological professionals in my family.)
     
  17. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    That was a great story find Brownie!
     
  18. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    That is a masterpiece PIM. The bottom line is WH's killer does not fit Holt's personality as we know it so far. Maybe Holt has multiple personality disorder on the extreme side, maybe easily manipulating the "hidden violent criminal" inside him and brought out the "dark side" during the crime.
     
  19. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    Thanks for slogging through all that, Xavier--(and Sasquatch :)). JMO. Xavier, the only problem with the multiple personality disorder idea (again, psych professionals in my family) is that that condition is 1) very rare, and 2) almost always brought about as a result of severe, chronic childhood abuse--and there's no evidence of that in Holt's history. Moreover, multiple personality disorder is not something a sociopathic narcissist exhibits. Those are both extreme personality disorders with their own constellation of causes and symptomatic presentations. The person with MPD uses delusion and compartmentalizing to deal with an insufferable reality; the narcissist is generally pretty happy with his self-serving reality.

    The criminal sociopathic narcissist is usually not delusional, as he needs and uses clarity of thought for his obsessional planning. He is not as likely to have been abused in childhood (though sometimes a degree of emotional neglect contributes to this disorder)--conversely, sometimes has had an "oedipal" childhood (with a doting mother who communicated that he could do no wrong and was above the rest of mere humanity), or parents who somehow communicated that he alone mattered in the grand scheme of life--or, perhaps simply narcissistic as an inborn inclination (but often a combo of nature and nurture). As the world revolves around him, he generally enjoys his self-focused experience of reality, so there's no psychological need to 'escape' into a different personality. If that self-focused state is threatened by the world around him, he simply schemes and manipulates a course of action to get things back onto his own self-serving track. He grows up seemingly having no conscience or emotional empathy for the rest of humanity. Level mood, cool-headed when many more emotional 'others' would not be.

    ETA: the sociopathic narcissist is generally a skilled, smooth liar, having had plenty of experience over time to hone those skills in advancing Self.
     
  20. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    <modsnip>

    One thing that caught my eye, was the mention of WH's uncle named Scott. ABC/Katu reported that both an uncle and someone named Scott texted WH's phone before the kids found it off of 257th St. Apartments. It is possible that both texts could be one in the same, a text from her uncle Scott rather than a text from LE on the case(as discussed on our earlier thread). The document went on to mention that the uncle was in the search party that went up to Larch Mountain.

    ABC Story:
    http://abcnews.go.com/US/whitney-heichel-missing-kids-found-cell-phone-belongs/story?id=17514873

    "[The kids] started flipping through some of the text messages ... from [her] uncle, and there was one from Scott that was trying to find out 'where are you. Are you OK?' So I mean it just kind of confirmed it to me that it was her cell phone," she said."
     
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