GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #5

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Knox, Oct 16, 2012.

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  1. newsjunkie

    newsjunkie Not to be confused with A_News_Junkie

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  2. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    Thank you for the clarification. I misread the document, and corrected my statement above, to reflect the local account of events.
    It now reads "The document went on to mention that the uncle was in the search party that went up to Larch Mountain." You are correct, Bob Weaver coordinated the search. The document states that the uncle was an Elder and part of the JW Larch Mountain search team.
     
  3. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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    Do NOT bring the blog posts here, please. Stick to MSM.

    Salem
     
  4. Sasquatch

    Sasquatch Member

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    Thank you for organizing such a wonderful detailed list and for your insight! It is great to see all of this useful information in one place!
     
  5. Glow

    Glow Active Member

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    I am not aware of anyone trying to profile JH. Speaking for myself, I am attempting to "understand the why (triggers, motivations etc) behind the what ( his murdering Whitney). Most people would like to feel that they do not fall neatly into well defined categories but the facts are - we do. People are pretty easy to categorize in fact.


    Agreed. Just need to note that the same is said about nearly every killer after he murders for the first time. Thus the popular joke about where is the safest place to live? Next door to a serial killer because they always interview the neighbors saying what a quiet and nice guy he was....

    Most people who are having severe financial problems are anxious. That is IMO more situational than character. As far as "tentative" I think stealing that phone from Clint's dresser is anything but "tentative" as was kidnapping, murder, throwing a gun in the police parking lot and so on.



    It may be hasty to label him as "passive by nature" as their is no proof of that so far. As for bullied in school, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that experiencing that tends to create a bully in and of itself

    This brings up a good point. I have wondered why he wouldnt want to work in the field he trained in? If he had diligently tried to find work and use his training, wouldnt that have been mentioned? By Amanda perhaps?

    The concept of "double tap"' has worked its way into mainstream pop culture. Shooting zombies with a double tap is one of the rules in the movie Zombieland. In the game Payday: The Heist is the phrase "Double tap! Triple tap! Just keep tapping!" after the players have taken many hits and still stand. I wanted to add this as it lends support to anyone who watches movies or plays video games of this nature being familiar with this term.



    Staying within your defined parameters that I underlined in your first bullet point, this needs to be amended to reflect all gamers and horror movie watchers as well as "hit men.

    Again going with your underlined frame above, we have no evidence of how (or how not) physically aggressive the killer was. It doesn't take a lot of physical aggression to pull a trigger. Just a mental or emotional decision to do so.


    I don't see anything methodical or capable in the evidence so far. Abduction, assault and murder can all occur on a whim. Take for example Alejandro Avila. He wasn't even after his victim. He was after someone else and just took her on a whim. So I cannot say there is any evidence to support "methodical and capable". In fact it seems the opposite to me.


    We don't have any evidence that JH is suicidal really. His saying he was wouldn't count (by your above parameters that we don't take anything he says seriously) As far as LE putting that vest on him, they would have to do that for liability reasons if JH uttered or displayed ANY suicidal words or actions. Or even if they "thought" due to the violent activity he involved himself in that he "might" attempt suicide as a remorse gesture for that matter. I think (yes this is just my opinion) that a weak little wuss who is brain soaked with video games and gun lore would be able to indulge his fantasies and then cry crocodile tears ala O.J. Simpson style. That still wouldn't mean he was suicidal, right?
     
  6. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    You're welcome, Sasquatch! Sometimes getting it all down helps me get a new perspective or see something I might have missed. I appreciate your taking the time to read it through, and your gracious comment. :)
     
  7. PoirotryInMotion

    PoirotryInMotion Registered Muser

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    Glow, I appreciate your long reply to my post--my server is down this morning and I'm on my phone so will answer it later today when (hopefully!) my server is up and running.
     
  8. caffeinejean

    caffeinejean New Member

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    "a weak little wuss who is brain soaked with video games and gun lore would be able to indulge his fantasies and then cry crocodile tears ala O.J. Simpson style"

    Right on sister! This is a profile description I can even understand. I always liked the line "explain it to me like I'm a six year old".
     
  9. Glow

    Glow Active Member

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    :floorlaugh: Thanks!

    I got to thinking though, now that the "O.J." case has been raked back up in the news, maybe I should amend that to good ole Scott Peterson instead? The point is the same, all murderers are not cold with a deadly rattlesnake stare....they can and do display emotion.
     
  10. caffeinejean

    caffeinejean New Member

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    Especially when they get caught!
    I'd cry big old tears too, if I had to appear on the big screen in a suicide smock and be paraded through jail in one.

    Seriously though, this reminds me of a child who lies and lies to cover another lie, gets caught in the final lie and cries because they got caught.
     
  11. Desdemona

    Desdemona * * * * Desi * * * *

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    :blowkiss:
    Glow. You are amazing.

    And I believe the 'anti-suicide smock' is indeed normal preventive protocol.

    Here is news item from 2011 which specifies that placing a prisoner on suicide watch in Clackamas County is standard procedure, based on the type of charges against the prisoner. This case was also a gun murder, and the suspect also confessed.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2011/06/woman_charged_in_death_of_glad.html

    Woman charged in death of Gladstone beautician placed on suicide watch
    Published: Tuesday, June 07, 2011, 4:08 PM
    Updated: Wednesday, June 08, 2011, 3:26 PM
    Molly Young, The Oregonian By Molly Young, The Oregonian

    The woman accused of killing a Gladstone beautician has been placed under suicide watch as a precaution in Clackamas County Jail, officials said Tuesday.

    Detectives arrested 53-year-old Susan Ellen Campbell on Friday, six days after authorities discovered the body of Debbie Lee Higbee Benton in her Gladstone beauty shop.

    Lt. Lee Eby said guards are closely watching Campbell, which he described as normal protocol based on the charges against her.

    Court documents show Campbell, also of Gladstone, confessed "to participating in intentionally causing the death of the victim" and told police where to find the weapon, which was the "same caliber as the one used in the murder of the victim," the statement said.


    :cool: Back to lurkerdom.
     
  12. Glow

    Glow Active Member

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    I appreciate those links! And yes, I think it is becoming more of a "preventative protocol" as you said.

    I'm sure it makes the job of LE easier and lessens their liability.
     
  13. Glow

    Glow Active Member

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    Good point, Not tears of remorse but of self pity. :furious:
     
  14. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    GLOW--- A Side Bar Comment

    Anyone interested in the current theories and verifiable evidence pointing to OJ's son Jason as the killer go read, watch Detective William Dear, PI on google.com & Youtube.com ...
    Very believable theory...
     
  15. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    Since Day 1 I've the WHY of this crime.

    From the profiles the posters, PIM, Sasq, Glow and others, it seems the driving force to commit this crime was Jealousy, Envy.

    Holt had self esteem problems, that seemed to have never left him from childhood, youth. Holt, now married to his high school friend, is faced living with someone who sees his flaws hourly , probably exposing them to him constructively and that might take some getting used to for him to hear these things.

    IMO Holt's view of Whit and Clint's marriage, life together as easy, positive, fun, loving, moving forward with goals of family, adventures. Plus, it sounds like to me the Heichels had respect from their church, socially and had a large circle of family, friends. IMO The Heichels had the respect, admiration from those in their social circle as an attractive, successful couple, successful individuals.

    Note: Success in Life for me personally does not mean necessarily Financial Success or Wealth

    So Holt probably wondered why can't he have what the Heichels have?

    Holt wanted to have some of the good things the Heichels had.

    Unable to climb out of the never ending "Hole of Constant Sorrow" Holt's boiling point made him go ballistic and commit this crime.

    Holt probably needed a "Signficant Achievement" (and I hate to use this wording) to rectify himself, prop up his self respect, self esteem, that he could "do something" in a big way, even if it meant taking someone's life.
     
  16. caffeinejean

    caffeinejean New Member

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  17. JulieR

    JulieR New Member

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    Xavier, I agree with most of what you said. What is really sad and most will not understand this but knowing the group of people they all were around (trying to avoid religion topic here) all JH would have had to do was reach out and tell someone his feelings or ask for help and he would have had open arms all around him. This was something JH was taught from childhood to reach out. Instead he withdrew from everyone (including his wife) and went into his own world. I don't think any one can say for sure what caused him to do what he did, I don't think he knows. Its just sad for everyone, I think about his parents and feel very sad for them. I don't know what would be worse to be the parents of Whitney or the parents of JH?
     
  18. Glow

    Glow Active Member

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    Your thought provoking question has stayed with me since you posted it. In between the busyness of the day, it kept running through my mind.

    On the one side my mind argued that Whitney is dead and that cant be easy in any way for her family even with strong faith.

    But then you have the parents of JH and their child is beyond their ability (as parents) to "fix" him,

    I finally came to the conclusion that I would prefer to be Whitney's parents.

    Let me tell you why.

    Whitney died as she lived. Open and loving and being loved. She created rather than destroyed. She added to rather than "subtract from" this world. True, her family is without her physical presence but they have as a compensation all she was about.

    For the parents of JH, there is the horror of Whitney's death but there is the much greater horror of knowing what their son did. They cant mourn with pride as Whitney's family can. They have to instead mourn with added shame heaped on their lives.

    So while Whitney's family can move on and heal, the family of JH will have to wake up each day to the knowledge of what he did.

    I guess it boils down to is there something worse than death?

    I believe there is. To live dishonorably, to shame your family, those things are worse to me.

    I would rather (for me) lose my child physically than have them be lost to me through their own heinous behavior.

    Its just beyond sad either way though isn't it? One child lost through murder and the other is lost to the judicial system.
     
  19. Xavier

    Xavier New Member

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    I agree JULIE R.

    I think Holt's marriage was eroding, and maybe the days before the crime, things could've escalated to a point where Holt had to act out or release his angers. And WH was who he was going to "take out" his frustrations on.
     
  20. Glow

    Glow Active Member

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