Oscar Pistorius Defense

Discussion in 'Oscar Pistorius' started by nastasya, Mar 17, 2014.

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  1. nastasya

    nastasya New Member

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    The state has a prima facie case for murder:

    • OP invited RS to sleep with him at his home.
    • OP swore under oath he killed RS.
    • OP swore under oath she did nothing to threaten or provoke him.
    • At no time did OP call police after he shot RS.


    For OP to be found not guilty he must now rebut the state's prima facie case. OP has preemptively attempted that with a written affidavit at the bail hearing and having his lawyer read a statement in open court at the start of his trial.

    OP's version of the night he killed RS:

    1. OP and RS had a quiet dinner on 2/13/13.
    2. OP and RS went to bed at 10:00 PM.
    3. Sometime in the middle of the night OP spoke to RS in bed.
    4. At approximately 3:00 AM OP went outside and brought 2 fans into the bedroom.
    5. OP closed the door to the balcony and pulled the blinds closed.
    6. OP pulled the curtains closed.
    7. OP heard the bathroom window slide open.
    8. OP got his 9 mm gun from under the bed.
    9. OP went into the bathroom on his stumps.
    10. OP simultaneously told RS to call the police and told an intruder to leave his house.
    11. OP shot four shots through the toilet door.
    12. OP backed out of the bathroom and again told RS to call police.
    13. OP noticed RS was not in bed.
    14. OP went back to the bathroom calling RS's name.
    15. OP tried to open the toilet door but it was locked.
    16. OP opened the curtains, blinds and outside door.
    17. OP screamed outside for help.
    18. OP put on his prosthetic legs.
    19. OP ran back to the bathroom.
    20. OP kicked the toilet door but it wouldn't open.
    21. OP went back to the bedroom to get a cricket bat.
    22. OP went back to the bathroom and bashed in the toilet door.
    23. OP saw RS slumped over, still alive.
    24. OP saw a key to the toilet door on the floor.
    25. OP reached down and picked up the key.
    26. OP unlocked the toilet door.
    27. OP battled to get RS out of the toilet area and into the bathroom.
    28. OP phoned John Stander.
    29. OP phoned Netcare.
    30. OP found the key to the bedroom door, unlocked it, and went downstairs.
    31. OP opened his front door.
    32. OP went back upstairs to the bathroom.
    33. OP picked up RS's body and carried it downstairs.
    34. On the way downstairs John Stander, Clarice Stander, Johan Stipp, and Pieter Baba arrived at OP's house while OP is carrying RS.
    35. OP tried to render assistance to RS.
    36. RS died in OP's arms.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/19/oscar-pistorius-defence-statement

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26417240

    Some questions to think about:

    1. How much of OP's story is reasonable or unreasonable?
    2. How much of OP's story is self-contradictory?
    3. How much of OP's story fits, or does not fit, the physical evidence?
    4. How much of OP's story matches, or doesn't match, witness testimony?
    5. How much evidence has OP presented that supports his life was threatened?

    The answers to these questions will be what determines the ultimate verdict.
     
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  3. Estelle

    Estelle Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post. I think it could be useful for us to discount each part of OP's statement as we are informed of the evidence.

    There is an error in the fourth one, where you say "At no time did RS call police after he shot RS".

    "At no time did OP call police after he shot RS".
     
  4. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Well-Known Member

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    "Outside the Oscar Pistorius murder trial each afternoon, the crowds of youths don’t just scream for the Blade Runner – they also adore his barrister, Barry Roux.

    And if the elated cries of “Mr Roux, Mr Roux!” don’t make the Rottweiler-like barrister blush, then a rap song written by a local radio station certainly might.

    The veteran counsel’s sharp intellect, sarcastic wit and court-room histrionics have become a feature of the first two weeks of the double-amputee’s trial for the murder of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp."


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-p...f-attention-20140316-hvjfs.html#ixzz2wHQwCRrb


    “I put it to you, that it’s true / everything you say, I will misconstrue / I’m Barry Roux and I put it to you / ten times in a row just to confuse you.”

    Other lines include: “Don’t hate me any which way / I only make 100k a day.”

    “You don’t like me again and again / but who’s the main man on CNN?

    “You may have all sorts of conflicting views / But I don’t see your name up on Sky News.”


    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-p...f-attention-20140316-hvjfs.html#ixzz2wHRnxDnm
     
  5. nastasya

    nastasya New Member

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    Thanks!

    I don't seem to be able to edit the post to fix the error you found! Maybe a mod can do it?

    Great idea about discounting each part of the story as evidence is presented.

    2. Went to sleep at 10:00 PM - Testimony that RS had something to eat 2 hours before she was killed by OP.

    3,4,5 - OP gets 2 fans from outside then closes the outside door, blinds, and curtains.


    According to his own statements, OP ultimately shot and killed RS moments after he closed the door, blinds, and curtains.

    To think that OP coincidentally closed the door to the balcony, the blinds, and the curtains moments before he shot RS, thus preventing anybody from hearing the moments he killed her, does not pass the smell test. This point is driven home by the fact that four separate witness actually DID hear sounds of a woman, an argument, screaming in terror, gun shots, then silence.

    Is it a coincidence that the witnesses heard the exact sounds of what happened only after OP went back and opened the balcony door after killing RS, like they were in a time machine delayed by 30 seconds? Is it unfathomable that the only time the door, blinds, and curtains were closed was in the exact minute that OP shot and killed RS? What are the odds?

    OP's story about closing the doors, blinds, and curtains is the ONLY way the rest of his story could make sense. If somebody saw the lights on he's done because he could have seen RS wasn't in bed. If they heard RS say one word before the shots he's done because then he knows it was RS he was shooting.

    Everything else the defense is doing is trying to draw attention away from and minimize this first incredibly vital part of OP's alibi.
     
  6. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Bessie edited it for you. :)
     
  7. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Well-Known Member

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    Okay, the full Barry Roux song is up on youtube:

    Barry Roux Parody song - YouTube

    Certainly Mr. Roux seems to be a more than competent attorney. He took this case really early, before all the evidence we are now seeing had even been processed. Although either he or his representatives visited the crime scene the day after the event, right?

    Now he is tied in to the Bail Hearing statement. I think this case is going to be a loser for him.
     
  8. nastasya

    nastasya New Member

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    9. OP went into the bathroom on his stumps.

    This alleged action by OP invalidates his entire self-defense argument.

    If there was an intruder in OP's bathroom, which was a considerable distance from the bedroom, OP in fact would have put himself in danger by heading down the hallway directly into the line of sight of a potential intruder.

    OP could have woken RS and retreated out onto the large balcony. He was not trapped in the bedroom. Instead, according to his own account, he got a gun and entered the room where he claimed to fear a potential intruder.

    That's not self-defense. That's aggressively attacking somebody.
     
  9. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Well-Known Member

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    5. OP closed the door to the balcony and pulled the blinds closed.
    and
    6. OP pulled the curtains closed.

    When Police Investigator entered the room the curtains were open and the door was open as per testimony.

    (I did not hear Prosecuter ask about the blinds)
     
  10. nastasya

    nastasya New Member

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    Let's look at this brief section of OP's defense and estimated timeline:

    1. RS goes to bathroom at time 0:00
    2. OP closes the door, blinds, curtains - time 0:15
    3. OP gets his gun - time 0:25
    4. OP goes down hallway and enters bathroom - time 0:35
    5. OP shoots RS - time 0:40
    6. OP goes back to bedroom - time 0:50
    7. OP goes back to bathroom - time 1:00
    8. OP goes back to deck and screams - time 1:10
    9. OP gets cricket bat and goes back to bathroom 1:30
    10. OP bashes bathroom door with cricket bat 1:50

    OP's entire defense rests on claim that witnesses heard OP screaming like a woman at time 1:10, then heard him bash the door at time 1:50 of this estimated timeline.

    What this means is that OP shot and killed RS at time 0:40, then reproduced the sounds of shooting and killing RS a mere 30 seconds later.

    Summarizing OP's defense:
    • OP shot and killed RS,
    • 30 seconds later OP reproduced the sounds of him shooting and killing RS
    • None of the witnesses heard the actual shooting of RS
    • All the witnesses heard OP making sounds that sounded exactly like when he shot and killed RS 30 seconds earlier.

    Is it reasonable to believe that nobody heard the actual shooting of RS, but everybody heard OP making noises, including screaming like a woman, that exactly replicated the manner in which he killed RS 30 seconds earlier??

    Could OP's story be any more transparently contrived?
     
  11. nastasya

    nastasya New Member

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    Short version of OP's defense:

    "The woman who was sleeping beside me got up in the middle of the night to pee and I followed her into the bathroom and shot her.

    How was I supposed to know it was her in the toilet?

    The witnesses who were awakened by all the commotion are all wrong. They didn't hear us fighting. That's impossible, we didn't fight. They didn't hear gun shots. Not sure why, but that's impossible too.

    Oh yeah, now I remember why that's impossible. Because if they would have heard gunshots after I screamed like a little girl, it wouldn't fit the rest of my story. It would prove I was lying.

    Oh, and the police didn't do their jobs well. If they did, they would have found evidence proving I went down the bathroom hallway, entered the bathroom, shot four times, and killed the person who was sleeping beside me a few minutes earlier."


    To all OP apologist and devil's advocates, isn't this an accurate summary of OP's entire defense?
     
  12. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    bumping topical thread
     
  13. asanque

    asanque New Member

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    <snip> of rest of nastaya's useful post

    Just wanted to clarify the impossible timeline.

    RS couldn't have gone to the bathroom until 0:15 as it was still light enough to see her move and OP was walking past the foot of the bed at the time.

    RS would have needed to enter the bathroom at 0:20 and close the window at the time.

    She then would have needed to use the toilet between 0:20 and 0:35 :facepalm:
     
  14. soozieqtips

    soozieqtips Owned by a cat...

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    asanque - you've snipped Nastasya's post and put the 'snip' in her quote so it looks as if she snipped her own post. The timeline is fleshed out in the bit you've left out. You need to edit your post and put the 'snip' outside of Nastasya's post.
     
  15. DebinGA

    DebinGA New Member

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    ..bumping nastasya's original post
     
  16. asanque

    asanque New Member

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    Thanks :)

    All of Nastasya's full post makes sense.

    But even the initial timeframe proposed by OP is nonsensical.
     
  17. Lyra500

    Lyra500 New Member

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    I have added some comments in pink below to start to identify those areas where OPs account changed between affidavit, opening statement and testimony on the stand or where it appeared illogical. Nowhere near finished.

     
  18. screecher

    screecher "Dina is going to kill me!"

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    OK. So OP says he went to his bedroom to get the cricket bat, signed by a famed player of the sport, to take back to the bathroom.

    Correct me if my recollection is in error, weren't all of OP's 'prized possessions' on display downstairs in his LR? Such as his trophies, medals, etc? He even had a signed glove and pic from Tyson?

    I have a hockey stick, with signatures from the college kids that made up the gold medal US hockey olympic squad, from the 1980 games held in Lake Placid NY. I don't keep it in my bedroom.

    Why would OP keep a signed cricket bat in his bedroom, when all other memorabilia was on display downstairs in his LR?
     
  19. Lyra500

    Lyra500 New Member

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    Looking at this specific question:

    How much evidence has OP presented that supports his life was threatened?

    My personal view is that apart from his own claims there is no persuasive evidence to back up the assertion that he felt his life was threatened or indeed that he had an unusually extreme fear of crime. He has to at least try to show this because otherwise he has no justification for what he did - sadly i believe it is all a pretence and that he shot Reeva deliberately.

    • No corroborated evidence for any of the claims of previous attacks - in particular the 'shooting' incident when he was in his car appears to be totally fabricated with not even a half hearted attempt to field anyone to corroborate it so far.
    • No burglar bars at the wondows
    • It seems unlikely that the alarm was even set
    • No use of the panic alarm
    • They slept with the balcony doors not only unlocked but actually open,
    • OP lived on an extremely secure estate
    • Broken downstairs window with no apparent concern about fixing it
     
  20. DebinGA

    DebinGA New Member

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  21. Lyra500

    Lyra500 New Member

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    That is a very good question.

    I really wonder where that bat was at the start of the evening.

    Was there not a press article after the crime which mentioned that many of his trophies appeared to be strewn around the living room as if they had been thrown around - it was noted that they were usually all neatly displayed in cabinets? This would fit with that - a huge fight which degenerated into throwing missiles and potentially Reeva being chased with said cricket bat.

    I am on my way out but will try to see if I can find a link later.
     
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