Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #64 ~ the appeal~

Discussion in 'Oscar Pistorius' started by beach, Aug 19, 2015.

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  1. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Parole Board Recommends Oscar Pistorius Be Released In August
    June 08, 2015
    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...ommends-oscar-pistorius-be-released-in-august

    Oscar Pistorius nearly home free
    2015-08-02
    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Oscar-Pistorius-nearly-home-free-20150802
    Oscar Pistorius' early release blocked by minister
    2015-08-19
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33987669


    Previous thread:
    Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #63 ~ the appeal~

    Link to Oscar Pistorius Forum Index
     
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  3. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    stop-read-this.jpeg

    The previous thread was closed for clean-up. While reviewing I noticed we have several members who've registered since the trial and verdict was rendered.

    Before continuing, please take time to review The Rules Forum.
    Particularly, the Dealing With Your Fellow Posters thread and The Etiquette and Information thread


    Differing opinions are to be expected among a large, diverse group. Tolerance and respect must be practiced when addressing your fellow posters. Address the POST, not the poster. It is not okay to attack or belittle others for their opinions. It is not okay for any member to tell another how to post, what to do, how they should think, feel, etc... While participating in discussion threads in a forum this large and diverse, it is important to be able express your disagreement respectfully. The previous thread was closed and many posts were removed for violations of these policies.

    It is the responsibility of each member to become familiar with Websleuths' rules and policies. (See links above.) Further violations will result in a loss of posting privileges.
     
  4. beach

    beach Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Please continue here after reviewing the post above.
     
  5. Viper

    Viper New Member

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    Well he's not leaving prison this Friday as he, his friends, and his family had anticipated and he just found out about that out today; that was a very cruel cut to be sure - LOL! I have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, but an appealate review of Masipa's mess by a three judge panel is coming very soon. My bet is a conviction on murder, which is slightly below what it actually was, premeditated murder. Time will tell... Until then, more football (soccer) with his fellow murderer friend in the prison yard.
     
  6. pandax81

    pandax81 New Member

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    My my, things have been warming up in town haven't they? Roux won't be distracted by the unicyclists and clowns though, he knows he has his deadline to meet.

    And on that topic, it disappoints me to say I am not impressed much at all with the state's appeal HoA, a bit of a curate's egg for me. They just didn't ask the right questions to be reserved in the first place and even with what we have there is a good chance of most or all being tossed out. The arguments all but ignored potentially the most lucrative question dealt by Masipa ('Whether the Court was correct in its construction and reliance on an alternative version of the accused'), blundered the rest with minor errors (getting terms wrong way round), major errors (equating excluding evidence as inadmissible with regarding admitted evidence as irrelevant) and, all too familiar, hiding things under the carpet hoping they won't be uncovered (isn't one of the accepted facts by the court that OP did not foresee the possibility of killing whoever was behind door). Don't get me started on the quotes about virgins and whores and 17th century roman-dutch law professors, I think recruiting James Grant was not the best idea.

    What was interesting is there is no reference to Masipa's opinion. By law, she must have already furnished a report to the SCA and this is part of the record. A lot could hinge on that.
     
  7. Suthrnqt

    Suthrnqt Verified Luddite

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    I would have given anything to have been a fly on the wall, (a jail-fly, I guess) when OP was told he wasn't going home. I bet he threw one he11 of a hissy fit, MOO
    Anyways, this is how I feel, tonight.
    :happydance:
    Between this news and MR being named a POI in the homicide of Dylan Redwine, it has been a banner day @ WS.
     
  8. Mr Fossil

    Mr Fossil New Member

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    As a reminder, here's the rules of the Supreme Court of Appeal of South Africa:

    http://www.justice.gov.za/sca/rules.html

    This defines what is and is not required by the SCA, the format (e.g. HoA shouldn't normally exceed 40 pages) and timetable amongst other things.
     
  9. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

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    "Culpable homicide" has been defined (in South African law) simply as "the unlawful negligent killing of a human being".

    Clearly OP can be correctly described as a killer and this will remain until the SCA reaches their decision in the appeal.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culpable_homicide

    Culpable homicide, like murderI is a form of unlawful killing. The crucial difference, however, is that if a person kills intentionally it is murder, whereas if he or she kills negligently it is culpable homicide.

    http://www.legalcity.net/Index.cfm?fuseaction=RIGHTS.article&ArticleID=4191473

    Should the SCA find him guilty of either DD or DE he can then correctly be described as a murderer.

    On a different note:

    OP’s family has repeatedly denied he gets preferential treatment in prison. If that’s the case I’d really like to know which other inmates have had the benefit of the following entitlements:

    “He complained that he wanted a bath. Correctional Services built a bath in his cell”.

    He complained about his bed so Correctional Services “replaced his bed”.

    He complained about his gym equipment “so they changed that too”.

    “He has his own cell and separate toilet … away from the general prison population”.

    The above comments were from Murasiet Mentoor, the regional manager of the Judicial Inspectorate who reviews written prisoners’ complaints.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/pistorius-changes-from-angry-to-able-laugh-in-prison-q06632

    And the family:

    Aimee dismissed reports that prison regulations were flouted and that her brother was receiving preferential treatment.

    The Sunday Times also reported that prison officials drove both Aimee and Carl's cars into the prison grounds without searching them.

    Aimee "didn't comment on claims that her car was driven into the facility by a prison official and not searched".

    http://www.enca.com/south-africa/bi...ceive-special-treatment-says-his-sister-aimee
     
  10. soozieqtips

    soozieqtips Owned by a cat...

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    Thanks for that JJ. So OP's title of 'killer' remains until the SCA reaches their decision in the appeal. Some posters have implied it's not respectful to refer to him as a killer - but a killer he is! As for the preferential treatment he received while in prison, that doesn't surprise me at all, although I am surprised Aimee's and Carl's car weren't searched before visiting. I'd have thought that was a security issue?
     
  11. Jake18

    Jake18 New Member

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    This reeks of politics, IMO.

    Which gives me some hope that the appeal may actually be considered on its merits.
     
  12. cottonweaver

    cottonweaver New Member

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    http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/O...ntial-legal-action-by-Oscars-lawyers-20150819

    "There was no word from Oscar Pistorius's lawyers on Wednesday night on whether they would pursue legal action following the decision by Justice Minister Michael Masutha...

    His attorney Brian Webber could not immediately be reached for comment. However, Pistorius's family said they would consider their options.

    "We accept the decision made by the minister of justice and are considering our options," family spokesperson Anneliese Burgess told News24 earlier."

    A typical example of unconvincing double speak by PR spokesperson Burgess, purveyor of clear comms.

    Maybe if they just preface every future utterance with "We accept the decision ....." and then do the opposite as per initial bail conditions
     
  13. Mr Fossil

    Mr Fossil New Member

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    Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
    Judge Lucy Mailula - new chair of parole review board - has acknowledged receipt of Minister's #OscarPistorius review request @eNCA

    Law states that parole review board has up to four months to make a decision on #OscarPistorius parole review @eNCA

    1) Parole review board made up of 3 judges, magistrate, 2 correctional services members, police general, 2 academics...#OscarPistorius

    2)...social development official, penologist, attorneys, clinical psychologists, community members representing victims #OscarPistorius
     
  14. cottonweaver

    cottonweaver New Member

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    RSBM

    I think his soccer pal has been moved Viper. Shame. Anyway this is what happened after that footage was leaked...pity there hasn't been more illicit filming eg of the Parole Board meeting in June or the Justice Minister's interventions!

    "Department of Correctional Services’ officers reportedly assaulted inmates at Kgosi Mampuru II Prison in Pretoria and confiscated their cellphones and sim-cards. This happened after they allegedly filmed paralympian Oscar Pistorius and Czech fugitive Radovan Krejcir playing football.

    CAJ News has been reliably informed the raid happened for three nights between Wednesday and Friday nights. The smuggling of mobile phones into South African prisons is rife. The video footage emanating from a cellphone is said to have angered the Correctional Services security guards, who conducted a raid when the prisoners were sleeping.

    An inmate alleged the officers assaulted them.
    “They took all our cellphone possessions while shouting that we were fools! They shouted at us for distributing the video footage to the media about Pistorius and Krejcir, who were playing football game,” one inmate told CAJ News.
    The reported filming of Pistorius and Krejcir follows allegations they were receiving “special treatment” in prison."

    http://citizen.co.za/344930/inmates-allegedly-assaulted-after-oscar-video/

    ETA He has been moved to Zonderwater prison
     
  15. mrjitty

    mrjitty New Member

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    How is this ignored?

    It's the very question that the state is appealing

    i.e. that the judge was incorrect to find that OP did not foresee the possibility of killing whoever was behind door

    The State's argument is that give all the facts as held by the judge, and the correct application of the test, clearly OP did have the requisite intention and thus the judge made an error of law.

    Obviously Roux's argument will be that it is a question of fact.

    Personally I believe it is a question of mixed fact and law.
     
  16. cottonweaver

    cottonweaver New Member

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    Well there's me thinking this was a short postponement of a few days ( as they might have to put him on next week's P.Board meeting. )

    But as Fossil quoted above :

    It looks like they may try and keep him inside c 3months longer, until Nov. appeal ( Appeal is prob end of November after all.)

    Any "bets" from WS posters as to the likelihood of this in their opinion?

    Looks like he's going to have to "join the queue" as other inmates have to? ( ie. for once being treated the same as others, or is it political shenanigans?)
     
  17. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/29302677/south-africa-suspends-pistorius-release/

    South Africa suspends Pistorius release

    The 28-year-old athlete was convicted in October of culpable homicide - a charge equivalent to manslaughter - over the killing of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day in 2013, but prosecutors have appealed, seeking a murder conviction instead.

    Wednesday's announcement comes on the very day Steenkamp, a model and law graduate, would have celebrated her 32nd birthday.

    "It is apparent... that the decision to release him on 21 August 2015 was made prematurely on 5 June 2015, when the offender was not eligible to be considered at all," Masutha said in a statement.
     
  18. GR_Turner

    GR_Turner New Member

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    It would be fascinating to see Masipa's report but I expect judge's reports are not put in the public domain (to save blushes).

    I think it's hard to judge the merits of the HoAs at the moment as we don't yet have the counter-arguments. The defense HoA at the trial seemed strong to me on the main charge but very weak around DE. They seemed to have little in the way of coherent argument so it'll be interesting to see how they counter it this time.
     
  19. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    Twitter

    Carl Pistorius ‏@carlpistorius 12 Std.Vor 12 Stunden
    ...!
     
  20. GR_Turner

    GR_Turner New Member

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    It might just depend on how busy they are. Four months is the maximum - but I wonder what the average amount of time is.
     
  21. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...s-got-special-treatment-prison-inmate-n412191

    Blade Runner' Oscar Pistorius Got Special Treatment in Prison: Inmate

    "Pistorius, he was a VIP prisoner," Boswell Mhlongo, a fellow inmate at the maximum-security Kgosi Mapuru II in Pretoria, told NBC News. "I mean everything was free for him. He can do whatever he wants."

    Mhlongo added: "How can you get your own gym, your own gym alone? Why the cell that we're in — we were never given curtains — but his cell was prepared special? Because he's got money. I mean it's Oscar Pistorius."
     
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