Out of place items in Ramsey home

[Steely]

Well, if you're RDI, the partially UNwrapped present (as opposed to partially wrapped) contained the package of the set of Bloomies day-of-the-week panties from which the size 12 Bloomies panties JB was wearing when her body was found came.
The wooden latch on the WC door was there to keep the kids out of that room. It was high up at the top of the door, so high up that the first police officer on the scene to do down the basement did not see it, and failed to open that door, which, on the other side was JB's body and an UNcontaminated crime scene. The kids would not have been able to get in the room with the latch in place.

DeeDee249, thanks so much for your help. I'll be honest, I'm an IDKWT(Beep)DI. :banghead:I say the word "Beep" out loud. I try not to cuss. Ain't easy with this case.

Why do people think it was the size 12 bloomies in that "partially wrapped" package? FAO Schwartz is an expensive toy store in New York that does mail order and I don't think they sell their wrapping paper. Isn't it a Fact this was FAO Schwartz paper or is that not true? My kids positively drool over their catalog.

I wonder if this was USED wrapping (as in opened that morning with a toy inside) and was being used again to partially wrap something else? I read the present was "partially wrapped". Kids identify exclusive wrapping paper with the store it came from. Imagine a kid sees FAO Schwartz paper and opens it to find, not a cool toy...but underpants? No. What ADULT would wrap underpants in wrapping paper that usually has really cool and EXPENSIVE kids' toys???? That would be mean, if the kid recognized the paper, wouldn't it? I could see a KID using used "cool" wrapping paper to wrap a present they made or something they own to give to someone else for Christmas (barbie doll?). (Girl's JB's age often give each other "presents" that their parents don't know about. Ask a teacher of kids that age if they have to sometimes send notes home requesting kids not to give "gifts" to each other.) I don't think PR would wrap underpants in used FAO Schwartz exclusive wrapping paper to give to any kid, hers or anyone else's unless she'd run out of wrapping paper.

The parents didn't put a lock on the door so they weren't worried about anyone but the kids getting in there so they put the latch where they thought the kids couldn't reach it. Wasn't it supposed to be where they stored Christmas decorations? I see it now, forgive me if I'm way behind..that was where PR hid presents...that was where they kept the presents from Santa and other gifts the R's didn't want the kids to find and PR wrapped presents in the basement right nearby...got it.

I remember having that overwhelming temptation to sneak into presents. My sibs and I did that at their ages and we even got really good at lifting off just enough tape so carefully we could sneak into wrapped gifts enough to find out what they were. If our parents knew, they never let on. Wrapping paper was nicer then and it was easier to do...not that I've tried lately or anything.:angel:

I bet B could have opened that latch if he really wanted to by standing on something or stack of things (chair/suitcase) and/or lifting someone else up (JB), what do you think? Do you think the kids might have snuck in there before Christmas? Was the reason JB was not that excited about her My Twinn Doll because she'd already seen it?

Wasn't PR down wrapping presents right before Christmas? A "My Twinn Doll" would have had to have been ordered well in advance. I bet PR couldn't wait to see that doll when it arrived and she probably couldn't wait to "see the look on her face" when JB opened it.
I wondered if PR "could have" ordered it wrapped...
And here is a chat from today with an Online MY TWINN rep:
[Visitor] Do you offer gift wrapping? How much is it?
[Lisa] Thank you for your patience. My name is Lisa and I would be happy to assist you today.
[Visitor] If I order a My Twinn doll that looks like my daughter, can that be wrapped?
[Lisa] we can not wrap the dolls but they come in a pink stripe box inside a cardboard box
[Visitor] That's good to know, thank you so much for your help!
[Lisa] you are welcome can I help with anything else?
[Visitor] Did you used to offer gift wrapping, do you know? Or have you never offered it for the dolls?
[Lisa] we never have pffered it for the dolls
[Visitor] Thanks so much for your help. You've been a big help.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Just to clarify (since the question of JBR's Christmas night footwear is being discussed at this time), the description of church, Pasta Jay's, little velvet Sunday school shoes, etc. is referring to Christmas Eve night, not Christmas night.

 

[DeeDee249]

Steely, you are correct about FAO Schwartz being a TOY store. And Patsy did say she bought toys there, for BR as well as others. She also said she bought the panties as a gift for Jenny. So...here's what I think about the partially opened gifts in the WC:
1. Patsy asked the gift wrapper at FAO to include the panties in with other items they wrapped. OR
2. Patsy added them herself to another box (meant for niece Jenny) either re-wrapping them or using gift wrap she bought at the FAO store (IMO the more likely theory).

 

[Ames]

I forgot one more item....JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms. I recall reading somewhere in the Patsy Ramsey interrogation that she was asked why JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms were in Burke's bedroom.

I believe that her pink PJ bottoms were later found under her pillow...on her bed. You can see them in the crime scene photos...of her bedroom.

 

[Ames]

I know when they showed her the picture of the basement floor with the white blanket and the pink barbie nightgown she commented that (the pink nightgown) wasn't suppose to be there, could that be what you are thinking about?

John is the one that said that...the barbie night gown "was not supposed to be there"..whatever THAT means. (IMO..he meant.. that HE didn't put it there..so HOW did it get there.....I still believe that it came out via static cling...when the white blanket was removed from the dryer). That is why he was confused....like what the heck...well, THAT wasn't supposed to be there! Where did THAT come from??

 

[Ames]

BBM
I ran across this picture recently which I don't remember seeing, or maybe didn't realize exactly what it was if I saw it before. I believe it's the door going into the room where JB's body was found (I added the circle around the latch). If you notice also, it's the type of latch that is usually installed on the side of a doorway. As it is installed here, the latch would fall down with gravity. It's obvious why it might not be noticed -- they usually are not installed like that, so anyone would just about have to be looking for it.

I wish I had run across this back when I was discussing with MurriFlower the area where I believe the death occurred (POST HERE). In the picture, you can also see that there is indeed an overhead pipe just above the door, and there is at least one set of golf clubs in the same area. That might also be a second set to the left with the word "RAMSEY" on it.

.

Thanks! I have seen this picture a thousand times, but had never noticed that latch before. You are right..an intruder wouldn't have known to look for a latch up high like that. It would have had to have been pretty dark down there too. When I walk into a room, I don't look upward to the TOP of the door. Why would anybody do that? The person that latched that door KNEW that latch was there. (Come to think of it, why would an intuder latch the door ANYWAY? What is that accomplishing? Just takes even MORE time....wouldn't he have had to stand on something to have reached it?? Looks pretty high up to me.) I believe that the Rams were pretty panicky that night....and wasn't really thinking when they latched that door. There was absolutely NO purpose in doing that. Even Officer French didn't see that latch...because as I said...who looks UP when opening a door?? He thought that it was stuck.

 

[Agatha_C]

The only thing JR ever remembered is that something didn't belong there. The suitcase wasn't kept there, the nightie wasn't supposed to be there, the pineapple etc etc... It's as if someone came in while they slept and rearranged the whole house.

 

[Ames]

The only thing JR ever remembered is that something didn't belong there. The suitcase wasn't kept there, the nightie wasn't supposed to be there, the pineapple etc etc... It's as if someone came in while they slept and rearranged the whole house.

LOL...I know!!! That is a good way of putting it.

 

[Agatha_C]

Ames,

It kinda bothers me that a little girl is missing and LE found a door thats stuck. Why wouldn't they force that door open?

 

[Ames]

Ames,

It kinda bothers me that a little girl is missing and LE found a door thats stuck. Why wouldn't they force that door open?

I have no idea...Officer French said that he would never forgive himself for not forcing that door open, and finding JB sooner. He said that he lives with the possibility that she could have still been alive. But now...we will never know...thanks to that stupid latch. Maybe that was the Rams plan all along. Who knows. There HAS to be a reason that the door was latched. OR, it could just have been a habit for them to always lock that door behind them.

 

[Steely]

Second floor: Paring knife & Pull-ups in the laundry area. Soiled pants & balled up turtleneck found in JB's bathroom.

First Floor: Flashlite on kitchen counter, bowl of pineapple, glass of tea, kleenex in breakfast room, pillow in the kitchen. Sippy cup & Johns bathrobe in the den.

Basement: Swiss army knife in boiler room counter, broken paintbrush in boiler room. Barbie dolls, barbie nitegown, JonBenet's blanket & JonBenet's body in the wine cellar.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JB was not asleep and helped carry in presents as BR stated. PR and JB in breakfast room...JB ate pineapple and PR drank tea. PR was upset JB didn't think her doll looked like her and she was hurt she didn't want to wear a matching mother daughter outfit. PR was crying, wiping her tears with kleenex and she was upset with JB. "Why don't you think it looks like you....blah blah blah. SNiff, sniff." JB finished her pineapple and wanted to go to the den (not living room where JR said) where her Dad and brother were playing together...putting together her brother's toy. PR did not want her to spill her drink (was it warm milk to help her get sleepy?) on the rug in there so she put it in a sippy cup.

Still thinking about the rest...

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks! I have seen this picture a thousand times, but had never noticed that latch before. You are right..an intruder wouldn't have known to look for a latch up high like that. It would have had to have been pretty dark down there too. When I walk into a room, I don't look upward to the TOP of the door. Why would anybody do that? The person that latched that door KNEW that latch was there. (Come to think of it, why would an intuder latch the door ANYWAY? What is that accomplishing? Just takes even MORE time....wouldn't he have had to stand on something to have reached it?? Looks pretty high up to me.) I believe that the Rams were pretty panicky that night....and wasn't really thinking when they latched that door. There was absolutely NO purpose in doing that. Even Officer French didn't see that latch...because as I said...who looks UP when opening a door?? He thought that it was stuck.

Ames,

Like you say, why latch the door? Looks to me as if JonBenet was staged to be assaulted and killed in some other part of the house. This was then amended to mask any sexual assault and with the addition of the ligature to offer a bogus cause of death, she was then placed into the wine-cellar with a plan to dial 911 and report her missing.

Also some people have also considered that she was moved into the wine-cellar that morning, after the 911 call and arrival of officers, hence the latching, on the assumption that the wine-cellar had already been checked?

.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Maybe they latched the door because it was always latched (hidden Chrismtas presents for kids) and thought it would look suspicious if it weren't latched?

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe they latched the door because it was always latched (hidden Chrismtas presents for kids) and thought it would look suspicious if it weren't latched?

joeskidbeck,

aha, then this would mean that the intruder is thinking in the same manner as the parents.

But you may be correct in that if nobody visited the wine-cellar since Patsy was last there, then I guess it should still be latched.


Hey but what a prescient intruder!


.

 

[otg]

Boy, that intruder sure did know the Ramsey house well to have even known about that latch at the top of the door. That intruder was obviously much smarter than Officer French. He was indeed a "prescient intruder". In fact, UKGuy, I think that's a good term to use from now on when we refer to him/her: the prescient intruder :dance: (I like it).

And Ames, with what we know, French should know that he didn't miss saving JonBenet -- she had to be already dead when he was there.
.

 

[joeskidbeck]

joeskidbeck,

aha, then this would mean that the intruder is thinking in the same manner as the parents.

But you may be correct in that if nobody visited the wine-cellar since Patsy was last there, then I guess it should still be latched.


Hey but what a prescient intruder!


.

For sure, UKGuy. Didn't I read at one time that John said when he first went down there, there was a chair in front of the door? Really made him look stupid if he were trying to convince anyone the intruder went out the window. That was my take, anyway. How in blazes did anyone put a chair in front of the door they had to go through in order to leave?

 

[Agatha_C]

Because there wasn't an intruder! Why bypass all those doors on the first floor? Why go to the basement at all? NO INTRUDER! He had to know where the alarm panel was. He had to know it wasn't set. LS said the butler door was ajar or did they prove that wrong, therefore making me wrong (LOL)?

 

[Wysteria]

The ransom note pen put back into it's proper container.

 

[joeskidbeck]

The ransom note pen put back into it's proper container.

Thank you, Wysteria. That part of this whole saga almost makes me want to laugh. Heavy sarcasm here, as nothing about this is remotely funny.
What intruder would put the freakin pen back into the container? For safety's sake, if nothing else, why didn't he put it in his pocket? Maybe he didn't have room because of everything else he had already pocketed?

 

[Agatha_C]

His pockets were wet from the pineapple and tea.