PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

Ann99

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Mr. B vs Conner
Wondering, does anyone know if there has been comparison of the two head shots?
Both were shot with a rifle.
What was the position of head wound for Connor, and then what was the position for Mr. Bones?
 

Eddie99

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Once upon a time, I think there was a autopsy diagram of the skull of Mr bones someplace online. I couldn't find it, in a cursory search.

For Connor, I don't ever recall anything more specific than the witnesses saying RF shot him in the head.
 

Eddie99

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If I recall correctly (which I'm not guaranteeing I'm remembering correctly)

Mr bones wound was cin the center of his forehead and it went through. Lots of cracks in the skull.
 

Ann99

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Once upon a time, I think there was a autopsy diagram of the skull of Mr bones someplace online. I couldn't find it, in a cursory search.

For Connor, I don't ever recall anything more specific than the witnesses saying RF shot him in the head.

If I recall correctly (which I'm not guaranteeing I'm remembering correctly)

Mr bones wound was cin the center of his forehead and it went through. Lots of cracks in the skull.
Thank you Eddie99.
 

Caring1

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4 Missing Person Exclusions:


Case Photo

Missing Person / NamUs #MP32941Othel Johnson
Date of Last ContactJanuary 01, 1956
StateNM
CountyValencia

Case Photo

Missing Person / NamUs #MP33677Clarence Moore
Date of Last ContactJanuary 01, 1956
StateKS
CountyGeary

Case Photo

Missing Person / NamUs #MP19245Charles Conner
Date of Last ContactAugust 10, 1957
StateOH
CountyAllen

Case Photo

Missing Person / NamUs #MP15603Max Metcalf
Date of Last ContactOctober 07, 1958
StateWI
CountyGreen Lake
 

CCJD

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Mr Bones dental chart from NamUs report 10/10/2011. Cropped version I darkened to make the checks in the boxes more visible.
 

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Eddie99

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With Connor, there was no one to match the dna to..... at one time his profile said
DNA: no match.

That didn't mean Mr. Bones had different dna than the Connor family. It meant there was no one they could compare to.

I'm still convinced Magnum figured this out 10 years ago.
 

OddOneOut

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I don't believe Connor has any connection to Mr. Bones.
The rifle and contacts came from Chicago.
The key was made in NYC.
The mess kit came from NYC.
Since the rifle could NOT have been sent to Ft Wayne in 1939 (It didn't exist until 1948 or later), there is no connection to Lima Ohio.
 

OddOneOut

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It appears that Mr. Bones came from Chicago. At some time, he was in NYC. I suspect he was an urban (city) dweller. It, also, appears he had money when he was in Chicago. At some point, he lost his money either before or after he went to Chicago. It is possible he was returning to Chicago. He may have been traveling with someone else.
 

Eddie99

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The rifle was originally sold in Fort Wayne, Indiana. (Where RF lived for a few years)

The plastic contacts....
His namus used to say that they originated in Chicago. This information disappeared off the profile years ago. I don't know what to make of that. Regardless, If someone in lima oh, back in the 50s wanted contacts, they likley would have had to go to Chicago, Detroit, or another major city to obtain them.

God only knows what the key was for. All that they know is that Active lock, on avenue A in NYC (gramercy park area), duplicated it, or one of their blanks was used to duplicate it elsewhere. (They could have been a distributor of key blanks.) ( Years ago, I looked at my various keys I had that were for my house, my work. None of them would have provided any clue as to where I live. )
 

OddOneOut

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The rifle was originally sold in Fort Wayne, Indiana. (Where RF lived for a few years)

The plastic contacts....
His namus used to say that they originated in Chicago. This information disappeared off the profile years ago. I don't know what to make of that. Regardless, If someone in lima oh, back in the 50s wanted contacts, they likley would have had to go to Chicago, Detroit, or another major city to obtain them.

God only knows what the key was for. All that they know is that Active lock, on avenue A in NYC (gramercy park area), duplicated it, or one of their blanks was used to duplicate it elsewhere. (They could have been a distributor of key blanks.) ( Years ago, I looked at my various keys I had that were for my house, my work. None of them would have provided any clue as to where I live. )
No, the rifle could not have been sold in Ft. Wayne in 1939 as the rifle did not exist in 1939. Therefore, the only reliable evidence comes from Chicago.
Also, if someone in Lima wanted contacts not available in Lima, they would have gone to Dayton Ohio. Chicago is too far away.
 
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OddOneOut

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It appears that Mr. Bones came from Chicago. At some time, he was in NYC. I suspect he was an urban (city) dweller. It, also, appears he had money when he was in Chicago. At some point, he lost his money either before or after he went to Chicago. It is possible he was returning to Chicago. He may have been traveling with someone else.
I made a typing error. I believe he lost his money either before or after he went to NYC (not Chicago).
 

Eddie99

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This is from doe network:

"The rifle was sold in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1939, but no further tracing of the gun's ownership could be found. The brass key hasn't been matched to any location. The dental work has yielded no matches."

It was also in a few newspaper clippings.

I'm going to review why I think magnum was correct. Starting with macro information and working towards fine details.

1. The homicide rate was about 4 per 100k in 1957. A very small group to be part of to begin with.

2. Mr bones was over 6'1 and so was Connor. Another statistically small group to be part of.

3. Two men saw forsyth shoot Connor in the head, with a rifle.

4. The (bones) rifle original point of wholesale was ft Wayne Indiana, where Forsythe lived for a time. Very close to lima.

5. Forsythe was seen almost exactly at the mid point between bedford and Lima. The person that saw him and his wife cleaning blood out of his car. That person went so far as to write the plate # in a shed door. Which was removed and used in his trial.

6. The wounds to Mr bones, are exactly what one would expect Connor to have, based on witness testimony.

7. The time of death for Mr. Bones lines up with Connor.

8. (Incidental) a lot of illegal transactions were known to take place in small cities in western NY and PA (Olean, Bradford, Elmira & more) as its the half way point between East Coast cities and large mid west cities) given Forsythes history, I think it's very possible he was familiar with the general area.

9. The time between when Forsythe shot Connor, and when he rolled back into town, is enough of a window to comfortably make the trip to bedford and back. We also know for a fact, he was at least half way. Without the body.

The only possibility are:

He dumped the body west Cadiz oh, and went further east to clean evidence from the car. Then circled back.

He dumped the body further east than Cadiz, and stopped there to clean the evidence.

I think the 2nd I'd more likley.

Also, I think we can assume it's better to dump a body at night. That said, he dumps Connor in the middle of the night, and at first light, he is in cadiz, 4 hours away. Which lines up perfectly if he unloaded him at 2-3 am. It is also damn near a straight line between lima, cadiz, and bedford.

* also no other body has been found between lima and cadiz.

Thanks for indulging me... lol

In the end I think this is still open because no one in authority cares.

As evidenced by the way they treated magnum PE.
 

citizen_sleuth

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I was able to narrow down the timeframe of when the duplicate key was made by looking at businesses at 195 Avenue A to some time between 1946 and 1958. The timeline is likely even narrower than this as most businesses in the East Village had a short shelf-life at this time, with many closing up shop in a few years. Unfortunately, the city directories from 1946 onwards are not digitized, so I would have to go to the New York Public Library or New York Historical Society Library to view the physical records.

1929: Venus Cafeteria
1933/4: Unknown, but Active Lock & Key is not listed in the city directory
1939/40: Unknown, but Active Lock & Key is not listed in the telephone directory
1946: Unknown, but Active Lock & Key is not listed in the telephone directory

"Randise Killing Follows Fight in Cafeteria," Press and Sun-Bulletin [Binghamton], 25 May 1929, 3.
Polk's (Trow's) New York City directory (Boroughs of Manhattan and Bronx), 1933/1934
Manhattan Telephone Directory, 1940 Issue
Manhattan Telephone Directory, 1946 Issue
 

OddOneOut

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This is from doe network:

"The rifle was sold in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1939, but no further tracing of the gun's ownership could be found. The brass key hasn't been matched to any location. The dental work has yielded no matches."

It was also in a few newspaper clippings.

I'm going to review why I think magnum was correct. Starting with macro information and working towards fine details.

1. The homicide rate was about 4 per 100k in 1957. A very small group to be part of to begin with.

2. Mr bones was over 6'1 and so was Connor. Another statistically small group to be part of.

3. Two men saw forsyth shoot Connor in the head, with a rifle.

4. The (bones) rifle original point of wholesale was ft Wayne Indiana, where Forsythe lived for a time. Very close to lima.

5. Forsythe was seen almost exactly at the mid point between bedford and Lima. The person that saw him and his wife cleaning blood out of his car. That person went so far as to write the plate # in a shed door. Which was removed and used in his trial.

6. The wounds to Mr bones, are exactly what one would expect Connor to have, based on witness testimony.

7. The time of death for Mr. Bones lines up with Connor.

8. (Incidental) a lot of illegal transactions were known to take place in small cities in western NY and PA (Olean, Bradford, Elmira & more) as its the half way point between East Coast cities and large mid west cities) given Forsythes history, I think it's very possible he was familiar with the general area.

9. The time between when Forsythe shot Connor, and when he rolled back into town, is enough of a window to comfortably make the trip to bedford and back. We also know for a fact, he was at least half way. Without the body.

The only possibility are:

He dumped the body west Cadiz oh, and went further east to clean evidence from the car. Then circled back.

He dumped the body further east than Cadiz, and stopped there to clean the evidence.

I think the 2nd I'd more likley.

Also, I think we can assume it's better to dump a body at night. That said, he dumps Connor in the middle of the night, and at first light, he is in cadiz, 4 hours away. Which lines up perfectly if he unloaded him at 2-3 am. It is also damn near a straight line between lima, cadiz, and bedford.

* also no other body has been found between lima and cadiz.

Thanks for indulging me... lol

In the end I think this is still open because no one in authority cares.

As evidenced by the way they treated magnum PE.
Again, the rifle did NOT exist in 1939. They were tracing the wrong model. The model used was not manufactured until 1948. This information is revealed on this thread. It came from a detective to another member of Websleuths.
 

CCJD

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Again, the rifle did NOT exist in 1939. They were tracing the wrong model. The model used was not manufactured until 1948. This information is revealed on this thread. It came from a detective to another member of Websleuths.
RBBM

Maybe not.
Article from Pgh Post Gazette dated 10/13/58 states:
Found beside the body was a Remington "721" rifle, 30/06 calibre.
and
A Remington Arms representative yesterday studied the gun in an effort to trace it.
(pertinent part of article attached)

link to clipping: Mr Bones Remington - Newspapers.com

link to entire page: 13 Oct 1958, Page 2 - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette at Newspapers.com
 

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