PA - Conner Snyder, 8, & Brinley, 4, hangings, Berks Co., 23 Sept 2019 *Mom arrested* *GRAPHIC* #2

[Lusitana]

Wait, could the crime scene photos depict the children hanging? I thought they didn't take any, since the 991 was called and they were able to get a pulse.

 

[cujenn81]

Wait, could the crime scene photos depict the children hanging? I thought they didn't take any, since the 991 was called and they were able to get a pulse.

The EMTs probably got them down right away to administer aid, but I don’t know that for sure. I imagine the photos depict the dog leash setup thing, though. (It’s really hard to even type that.)

 

[MsMarple]

So she's claiming an insanity defense...
Lisa Snyder, accused of hanging children in Berks County, will mount insanity defense

ETA: Quote from article re: motion "Snyder’s mental illness manifested in suicidal ideations and a perception that her children were being harmed physically and emotionally by others, her lawyers contend. The mental illness brought out a “desire to protect her children from feelings of abandonment and/or to alleviate the painful feelings and situations they were experiencing at the time,” the motion states."

Like teflon spaghetti this defense ain't gonna stick no matter how hard you throw it against the wall.

IMO the dog-sex charges will not be separated from the others although she may win on the change of venue. Being depressed and having a personality disorder doesn't automatically go hand in hand with insanity.

She took the time and effort to go online and purchase a heavy duty dog leash to make sure it would hold - she damn well knew what she was doing. She had ample time to think it through yet chose to go ahead and murder two innocents in cold blood. Gosh, I hate this woman so much! MOO.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

So she's claiming an insanity defense...
Lisa Snyder, accused of hanging children in Berks County, will mount insanity defense

ETA: Quote from article re: motion "Snyder’s mental illness manifested in suicidal ideations and a perception that her children were being harmed physically and emotionally by others, her lawyers contend. The mental illness brought out a “desire to protect her children from feelings of abandonment and/or to alleviate the painful feelings and situations they were experiencing at the time,” the motion states."

Oh good grief! Right. I forgot most suicidal women screw the pooch to lift their spirits before holding a watch party for their friendly local pervert.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Ok. She is pleading insanity, but .. The court documents also ask for other relief, including that the dog-related sexual charges be detached from the murder charges because Snyder's attorneys believe they have no bearing on the case and may taint the jury's perception.

She wants the jury to believe she’s insane, and somehow the vile dog stuff will taint them.. how? Hearing that would prove she’s sane? Sheesh.

I am going to need a strong stomach to follow this case.

I’m so sad for Conner and Brinley. The only saving grace is they are now away from this monster. Their lives were probably hell.

jmo

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Defense attorney Dennis Charles has dismissed the case as amounting to only “speculation and guesswork.”

Defense attorneys said in their filing that Snyder has a “chronic history of severe mental disorders,” including major depression with psychotic features, anxiety disorder, affective disorder and post-partum depression dating to when she was 16.

At the time of the alleged homicides, they said, Snyder had recurrent and severe depression as well as borderline personality disorder and symptoms consistent with post-traumatic stress disorder, multiple personality disorder and dissociative disorder.

State police have said that Snyder searched topics including suicide, drug overdoses, death by hanging and how to kill someone. Snyder’s lawyers argue in their motion that the searches, which state police say were conducted using Conner’s Google account, have not been authenticated.
Insanity defense planned for woman charged in kids' deaths

 

[Lusitana]

Defense attorney Dennis Charles has dismissed the case as amounting to only “speculation and guesswork.”

Defense attorneys said in their filing that Snyder has a “chronic history of severe mental disorders,” including major depression with psychotic features, anxiety disorder, affective disorder and post-partum depression dating to when she was 16.

At the time of the alleged homicides, they said, Snyder had recurrent and severe depression as well as borderline personality disorder and symptoms consistent with post-traumatic stress disorder, multiple personality disorder and dissociative disorder.

State police have said that Snyder searched topics including suicide, drug overdoses, death by hanging and how to kill someone. Snyder’s lawyers argue in their motion that the searches, which state police say were conducted using Conner’s Google account, have not been authenticated.
Insanity defense planned for woman charged in kids' deaths

I think it can't be argued that someone that is capable of killing a child, let alone their own children, and specially in the way Syder murdered her children, can't be mentally healthy. The thing that bothers me by that statement is that, if she really had a "chronic history of severe mental disorders", wouldn't that be documented and if it was, why didn't CPS have any history with her and her three children? I'm assuming a mother with mental health issues should've been getting help in order to make sure the children were not at risk.

 

[kittythehare]

Defense attorney Dennis Charles has dismissed the case as amounting to only “speculation and guesswork.”

Defense attorneys said in their filing that Snyder has a “chronic history of severe mental disorders,” including major depression with psychotic features, anxiety disorder, affective disorder and post-partum depression dating to when she was 16.

At the time of the alleged homicides, they said, Snyder had recurrent and severe depression as well as borderline personality disorder and symptoms consistent with post-traumatic stress disorder, multiple personality disorder and dissociative disorder.

State police have said that Snyder searched topics including suicide, drug overdoses, death by hanging and how to kill someone. Snyder’s lawyers argue in their motion that the searches, which state police say were conducted using Conner’s Google account, have not been authenticated.
Insanity defense planned for woman charged in kids' deaths

MPD, eh? Multiple personality disorder. Very interesting. Having said that they've gone completely overboard with that list. Who diagnosed her? When? What if any treatment did she receive? Is she receiving any prescription medicine for any or all of those conditions? That would be a helluva mixture of meds, if so...
Deep sigh, and sickened at what this will cost the state.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

MPD, eh? Multiple personality disorder. Very interesting. Having said that they've gone completely overboard with that list. Who diagnosed her? When? What if any treatment did she receive? Is she receiving any prescription medicine for any or all of those conditions? That would be a helluva mixture of meds, if so...
Deep sigh, and sickened at what this will cost the state.

I’m so sick about this. So disgusted. There’s a nine year old amber alert going on and I’m getting bad vibes.i just shake my head and swallow hard to make it all go away - another scar tattooed upon my heart for these two babies.

 

[kittythehare]

I’m so sick about this. So disgusted. There’s a nine year old amber alert going on and I’m getting bad vibes.i just shake my head and swallow hard to make it all go away - another scar tattooed upon my heart for these two babies.

I cannot work another child case.
I have to keep supressing all thoughts of their last moments, innocence robbed.

 

[cujenn81]

I swear to God, this woman gives me high blood pressure.

For starters —
DID is a controversial diagnosis and many medical professionals have doubts about its validity.

Dissociative Identity Disorder: A Controversial Diagnosis

Reported cases of DID by Frankel, Ganaway, and McHugh, among others, have been attributed instead to social contagion, hypnotic suggestion, and misdiagnosis. These authors have argued that the patients described as having DID are highly hypnotizable, and therefore are very suggestible. They argue that these patients likely would be prone to follow direct or implicit hypnotic suggestions, and that the majority of diagnoses of DID are made by a few specialist psychiatrists.

In 1993, Lauer, Black, and Keen concluded that DID was an epiphenomenon of borderline personality disorder, finding few differences in symptoms between the two diagnoses. They described, rather, a “syndrome” of symptoms that occurs in persons with disturbed personalities, particularly borderline personality disorder. They concluded that DID had “no unique clinical picture, no reliable laboratory tests, could not be successfully delimited from other disorders, had no unique natural history and no familial pattern.” That same year, after yeomans’ efforts to answer this question by empirically reviewing the literature, North et al concluded that the diagnosis has not been “truly” validated.

B. —
As history has shown, the court is unlikely to allow the “DID made me do it” argument anyway.

Dissociative identity disorder: No excuse for criminal activity

Courts have rejected the admissibility of DID evidence, including expert testimony, because the scientific evidence failed to meet reliability standards, and therefore is not ultimately useful to the judge or jury.

In State v Greene (1998), the defendant claimed that 1 of his 24 alters was responsible for killing his therapist. The Supreme Court of Washington affirmed that evidence of Mr. Greene’s DID, including expert testimony, is not reliable and not admissible.

Similarly, in State v Lockhart (2000), Mr. Lockhart contested his conviction of first degree sexual assault on the basis that he was not permitted to present evidence of DID to support his insanity defense. The West Virginia Court held that the diagnosis of DID was speculative and therefore did not meet reliability standards for evidence.

Third of all —

Friend of mother accused of killing children found hanging in basement says the kids seemed happy while suspect complained of depression [EXCLUSIVE]

Snyder is accused of searching online for “carbon monoxide in a car how long to die,” and “hanging yourself.” She also searched for “almost got away with it” several times, apparently in reference to a popular Investigation Discovery show.

Adams added that Snyder told a friend she was depressed and “through” with being a mother. Prior to the children’s deaths, Snyder reportedly told the friend that she was depressed, couldn’t get out of bed, and didn’t care about her children anymore.

 

[Seattle1]

I think it can't be argued that someone that is capable of killing a child, let alone their own children, and specially in the way Syder murdered her children, can't be mentally healthy. The thing that bothers me by that statement is that, if she really had a "chronic history of severe mental disorders", wouldn't that be documented and if it was, why didn't CPS have any history with her and her three children? I'm assuming a mother with mental health issues should've been getting help in order to make sure the children were not at risk.

I agree there's no doubt that LS is not mentally healthy but when the defense asserts that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity, they are essentially admitting the defendant committed the act of the offense yet denying responsibility because the defendant lacked the capacity to act with criminal intent at the time.

Criminal insanity doesn't operate like a light switch where LS was capable of going about her day on Monday from 8AM - 4PM and at 4:01PM when the kids got home from school she flipped to insanity mode, and hoisted her children up to the basement rafters by their necks with a cable dog tie.

Nope. LS denied responsibility for killing her children at the earliest opportunity possible or when she phoned 911 -- and not because she was insane but because she knew the difference between right and wrong and immediately blamed Conner for his own death and the death of his little sister Brinley to avoid punishment.

LS did not destroy or disappear the cell phone she used to call 911 because she was insane at the time she murdered her children. LS mindset was that she needed to get rid of incriminating evidence.

I think there's no chance the defense will prove by clear and convincing evidence that LS was criminally insane when she killed her children and/or that LS was unable to appreciate what she was doing to her children on Monday, Sept 23, 2019 was wrong.

IMO, this insanity defense is nothing more than her defense team's attempt to save LS from the death penalty by introducing mitigating evidence against death by introducing LS's mental history.

MOO

 

[Lusitana]

I agree there's no doubt that LS is not mentally healthy but when the defense asserts that the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity, they are essentially admitting the defendant committed the act of the offense yet denying responsibility because the defendant lacked the capacity to act with criminal intent at the time.

Criminal insanity doesn't operate like a light switch where LS was capable of going about her day on Monday from 8AM - 4PM and at 4:01PM when the kids got home from school she flipped to insanity mode, and hoisted her children up to the basement rafters by their necks with a cable dog tie.

Nope. LS denied responsibility for killing her children at the earliest opportunity possible or when she phoned 911 -- and not because she was insane but because she knew the difference between right and wrong and immediately blamed Conner for his own death and the death of his little sister Brinley to avoid punishment.

LS did not destroy or disappear the cell phone she used to call 911 because she was insane at the time she murdered her children. LS mindset was that she needed to get rid of incriminating evidence.

I think there's no chance the defense will prove by clear and convincing evidence that LS was criminally insane when she killed her children and/or that LS was unable to appreciate what she was doing to her children on Monday, Sept 23, 2019 was wrong.

IMO, this insanity defense is nothing more than her defense team's attempt to save LS from the death penalty by introducing mitigating evidence against death by introducing LS's mental history.

MOO

Yes, all of this! All the steps she took to commit this crime tells me she was very much aware of what she was doing and how wrong it was. Throw away the key, she's a monster.

 

[Peppery]

I think it can't be argued that someone that is capable of killing a child, let alone their own children, and specially in the way Syder murdered her children, can't be mentally healthy. The thing that bothers me by that statement is that, if she really had a "chronic history of severe mental disorders", wouldn't that be documented and if it was, why didn't CPS have any history with her and her three children? I'm assuming a mother with mental health issues should've been getting help in order to make sure the children were not at risk.

I dont disagree at all that she obviously has issues. But I do want to note that mental illness or obtaining psychiatric care does not mean CPS should be involved or that a person with mental illness can't care for children. Unless her provider suspected she was actively suicidal or homicidal, they would be under no obligation to report anything she said in therapy or appointments to CPS or LE. And as an adult, she was free to seek or not seek out mental health care. Its such a fine line, the kids should never be at risk, but unless or until a mentally ill person harms themselves or someone else, there is nothing that can be forced on them.

 

[Seattle1]

From Oct 7, 2019 news report, Officials said the two children were receiving general protective services from welfare officials but no additional details disclosed.

Affidavit: Berks County, Pennsylvania siblings were found hanging in basement before they died | 6abc.com

 

[Lusitana]

I dont disagree at all that she obviously has issues. But I do want to note that mental illness or obtaining psychiatric care does not mean CPS should be involved or that a person with mental illness can't care for children. Unless her provider suspected she was actively suicidal or homicidal, they would be under no obligation to report anything she said in therapy or appointments to CPS or LE. And as an adult, she was free to seek or not seek out mental health care. Its such a fine line, the kids should never be at risk, but unless or until a mentally ill person harms themselves or someone else, there is nothing that can be forced on them.

Right, what I'm saying is that it has been stated that she had chronic mental health issues, serious ones apparently. I was wondering if there was any record of that, and if yes, was CPS ever involved. Plenty of people with mental health issues live a completely normal life, with and without treatment, and plenty of people with mental health issues care for themselves, for children, etc. Mental health issues don't equal violence off the bat, a person with mental health issues doesn't have to be violent, that's not what I was trying to say. What I was asking was, if her issues were so serious and were a reality for such a long time to the point of her harming her children, which she did... why is there no record of that? Why was it never an issue until she got arrested? I remember that she told a friend when she was still free something along the lines of "when they arrest me, I'll make bail and kill myself". Isn't that weird? She knew she was going to get arrested, thought she was going to be able to get a bail (seriously? wow lol) and then, just then, kill herself. Do you get my issue with believing what her attorney his trying to say? She knew what she was doing the whole time and knew LE was going to catch her eventually.

 

[steeltowngirl]

From Oct 7, 2019 news report, Officials said the two children were receiving general protective services from welfare officials but no additional details disclosed.

Affidavit: Berks County, Pennsylvania siblings were found hanging in basement before they died | 6abc.com

CPS may do a better job in Berks County PA, but in Western PA, CYF / CPS really isn’t that great. A whole lot of gaps.

jmo

 

[Seattle1]

CPS may do a better job in Berks County PA, but in Western PA, CYF / CPS really isn’t that great. A whole lot of gaps.

jmo

I do take comfort that by all accounts, both children appeared happy to others and were well-liked at school. I recall a lovely floral water-color painting by Conner -- he seemed to be a gentle soul at only age 8.

I'm not familiar with the Act 33 cited below other than it was adopted in 2008 but I hope it will benefit this case and other PA children in need.

A panel of experts will soon be delving into the case, which is a state requirement under “Act 33” in Pennsylvania, for children who pass away or nearly pass away. Act 33 is utilized when there is suspected child abuse or neglect, according to the Pennsylvania General Assembly.

Berks County District Attorney John T. Adams said that although the panel is a “tool in our toolbox,” there is still a lot of evidence to go through.

UPDATE: Family dog ‘given away’ after 2 children die with dog cable around their necks [Police]

 

[Lusitana]

It’s a little scary to think that these children might have not been abused up until she committed this horrible crime, could she really have escalated so fast without no warning signs? They did seem like happy kids, and by all accounts they did great in school. It breaks my heart that she did this to them and tried to place the blame on Conner.

 

[steeltowngirl]

It’s a little scary to think that these children might have not been abused up until she committed this horrible crime, could she really have escalated so fast without no warning signs? They did seem like happy kids, and by all accounts they did great in school. It breaks my heart that she did this to them and tried to place the blame on Conner.

It is very scary. My heart wants to believe that Conner and Brinley lived happy, healthy lives up until that final day. My mind tells me otherwise. The signs may not have been visible to the public, but I suspect those kids were psychologically traumatized.

The older brother may have knowledge of the secrets that were kept in the home. I suppose much will be learned if and when the case goes to trial.

jmo