PA - Ellen Greenberg, 27, Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing, suicide, Jan 2011 *trial if homicide*

Discussion in 'Currently Awaiting Trial' started by wawashortie, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. wawashortie

    wawashortie Member

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    Link to Philadelphia Inquirer 2019 article:

    A Philly teacher’s brutal stabbing has experts at odds: Was it a suicide or homicide?

    On January 26, 2011, Ellen Greenberg, 27, was engaged to Samuel Goldberg, 28, when he found her dead in the apartment they shared in Philadelphia’s Manayunk section.

    The Medical Examiner’s report states that Ellen was stabbed 20 times—10 of the stab wounds were to the back of her neck. It also details 11 bruises found on the right side of her body on the arms, abdomen and legs.

    The Medical Examiner’s office ruled that the manner of death was a homicide. A few weeks later the police department determined that there was no foul play and in a rare event on March 7, 2011, the Medical Examiner’s office changed it’s ruling from homicide to suicide. The case was closed by the Philly PD, with the final ruling listed as suicide.

    For the past 8 years, Ellen’s parents have tried to get answers- what really happened to Ellen?

    Well known forensic pathologist, Dr. Cyril H. Whect, reviewed the autopsy report, photos of her body from the autopsy, photos of her body from the crime scene, and the ME’s investigation report from the scene. The 2012 report was labeled “strongly suspicious of homicide” and Dr. Whect said “I don’t understand how they wrote this off as a suicide.” The PD refused to release their files for Dr. Wecht’s review.

    Ellen’s parents are hoping that her case will be reopened and a thorough investigation completed so that they finally get answers regarding their daughter’s Death.

    At the end of the Philadelphia Inquirer article there is a link to the autopsy, experts reports and other documents.

    Ellen’s family has also started a Facebook page “Justice for Ellen.”
     


  2. wawashortie

    wawashortie Member

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  3. cherrymeg

    cherrymeg Well-Known Member

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    I could be wrong but this doesn't seem like suicide.
     
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  4. megaCB

    megaCB Member

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    Wow, this case is wild. Stabbing sure doesn't seem like a "painless suicide" method, but if she had that search term on her computer and had been experiencing extreme depression and anxiety, combined with the zero defensive wounds, nothing heard by neighbors, locked from the inside apartment... maybe that's the case?
     
  5. PrairieWind

    PrairieWind Verified Attorney

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    That is really strange. Not sure what to think.
     
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  6. AzPistonsGirl

    AzPistonsGirl Well-Known Member

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    there was blood on the bottom of one of her boots... and the horizontal blood stream from her nose isn't really explained.
     
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  7. CoreyRocks

    CoreyRocks Well-Known Member

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    Once the Save the Date cards were sent did the groom chichen out?

    Seems fishy to me.

    Anyone could have Googled painless suicide on her computer. Stabbing isn't painless. I think it was staged to look like a suicide.

    When I die and THEY search my computer, please tell THEM I research crime and belong to WS. Just saying.
     
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  8. wawashortie

    wawashortie Member

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    I agree. I think the save the date cards sent one of them over the edge. Initially, I really thought Ellen committed suicide but after reading comments on the site where the article was published, I think she was murdered by her fiancé (if these comments were true).

    I read that he called his uncle, who is described as being well-connected in Philly (high profile Philly lawyer) and that this man was one of the first people on the scene.

    The investigation was treated 100% as a suicide right out of the gate. Fiancé was intervied but was not treated as a suspect. I also read that he had a “new girl” living in the same apartment that Ellen died in within 6 months.

    But what really eats away at me is that she had 11 bruises on the right side of her body. It does not sound like Philly will reopen the case, but I’m hoping that someone gets a chance to do so.
     
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  9. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Multiple stab wounds is not painless suicide. I find it hard to understand why it was treated as suicide because it seems like a very unusual method to commit suicide. And how do you stab yourself multiple times in the back? If she was googling painless suicide, I don't think she would have killed herself through multiple stab wounds. I googled painless suicide for research purposes on this case and there was no suggestions that multiple stab wounds is the way to commit painless suicide.
    That's certainly not painless. It's a very strange case to say the least. But even assuming she was suicidal, a suicidal person can still be murdered. The door was locked from the inside but apparently those bar locks could be manipulated from the outside. So somebody could have killed her then manipulated the lock.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  10. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    I don't know of many suicides where victim stabbed herself multiple times to death. So even staging this as a suicide is strange. Why would somebody stage it that way?
     
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  11. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    No doubt this is a bizarre case! I'm still leaning toward a suicide, but do think more investigation needs to be done.
     
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  12. wawashortie

    wawashortie Member

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  13. Blondie in Spokane

    Blondie in Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I believe she was murdered.
     
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  14. Jsizzle

    Jsizzle Well-Known Member

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    This story is crazy. My husbands co-worker went to school with this girl. I think she was murdered.
     
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  15. elmomom

    elmomom Well-Known Member

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  16. kirkassoc

    kirkassoc Well-Known Member

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    I tried to research this sad case. The thing that stands out to me is why she would ever kill herself in so gruesome a manner when it was stated she was taking ambien? I would think it would be much easier to fill a prescription and take all 30 at once...wouldn't that do it? I believe that would be easier than stabbing yourself the way it is claimed she did. So odd. Beautiful woman with so much to offer.
     
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  17. elmomom

    elmomom Well-Known Member

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    From the sounds of it, her computer and belongings were never secured by LE, making it possible that someone could plant evidence if they wanted to cover up her murder.
    I agree that this would not be a very likely way for a woman to kill herself. Along with the fact that there were stab wounds to the back of her neck? Sounds almost impossible!
     
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  18. AzPistonsGirl

    AzPistonsGirl Well-Known Member

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    wow.

    I think so very many families and loved ones don't and won't accept their friend or family member has killed themselves, no matter the evidence.

    Having said that, however, LE is fallible. Mistakes are made, sadly. People are bribed, sadly. Innocent people are in prison, wrong MODs are certainly listed on some certificates of death, mistakes ARE made.

    The challenge is money, resources, skill, maybe even some luck at some point. And then accepting what you find. Perhaps accepting you may never know for certain.

    But having that doubt... I can't imagine living with that...
     
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  19. fusion28

    fusion28 New Member

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    This was a big fubar. The body had been moved. No reports on evidence taken in by police. It has been proven that you can lock that specific lock from the outside. Her fiance is the only person who said that the inside lock was locked. He's the only one that entered the apartment right away and was alone until police showed up. I worked in EMS for 9 years; I have NEVER seen a female suicide stab or shoot themselves. It is always said that "women want a pretty corpse, men want to create a mess". Also, there's no way that she would stab herself 20 times with her mental state and psychiatric history.
     
  20. wawashortie

    wawashortie Member

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