PA - Grand Jury Report, Sexual abuse of over 1,000 children by over 300 Catholic priests

[blue22]

RSFF

Was Jerry Sandusky Methodist clergy?

I acknowledge that paedophiles will join certain professions (teaching, sports, etc) where there are usually children. Normal, healthy people do not seek out children in the way paedophiles do. Thank you for the info regarding the Methodist church, it is appreciated. I agree about celibacy not being a contributing factor to paedophilia, if it was, then non-religious celibates would be paedophiles too.

The way I see it, the celibacy factor in the Roman Catholic church allows the paedophile to "conceal" the lack of desire for a normal sexual life. And of course receive the ultimate protection from church hierarchy, since all he has to do is be relocated and carry out his nefarious acts towards children. Altar boys usually, that is how it starts, for as long as I can remember.

One of the priests at my family's church was suspected of being a paedophile, then left the church at some point during my 20's. I never heard the full story, but as standard practice goes, he was transferred to another church.

Many pedophiles have intimate relationships with other adults. I think the church is full of pedophiles, because priests know the power and access they have. They were pedophiles before they were priests. They are like God in the church. They know they can offend and they go there to do it. They have unfettered access to children and power over them. The Catholic Church is the largest criminal organization in the world, if you ask me.

JMO.

 

[Cryptic]

You lost me.
I've always understood that most Protestant pastors hold day jobs. Not sure why any would be welfare manipulators but I could of course be wrong. My guess is they are in the minority.

I need to clarify my post:

With the exception of a few long term welfare abusers, all of the sex offenders I handled had regular jobs. I only dealt with two individuals who had evangelical ministerial positions. Both of these men also had regular side jobs as their ministerial positions were not full time.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You lost me.

I've always understood that most Protestant pastors hold day jobs. Not sure why any would be welfare manipulators but I could of course be wrong. My guess is they are in the minority.

Most mainline Protestant churches require pastors to be full time. Many smaller churches may share a pastor; the churches are said to be "yoked" in those cases.

Generally, if someone becomes ordained, and they do not have a specific ministry, they cannot as clergy. The ministry need not be a church.

A famous example of that is of Fred Rogers, of "Mr.Rogers" fame. He was an ordained Presbyterian, and his ministry was the show, and the music. He had to get permission from the presbytery, the regional governing body, to remain on the rolls as a minister.

At least as late as the mid-1980's, you could be ordained in the Presbyterian Church, unless you had a church that would take you as their pastor or some sort of a ministry.

 

[Elley Mae]

After reading this article about fire at paint shop and seeing also the business next door.

......

Paint shop in Fells Point burned to ground in four-alarm fire

Paint shop in Fells Point burned to ground in four-alarm fire

A lot of the paint stuff probably went back 100 years. And up in the church loft, in the apex, was another storage place where they stored historic documents from this area (that) went back to the 1860s," said Robin Rider, who worked at Budeke's.

......

Things that make me go hmmm.

 

[GreenOrchard]

Many pedophiles have intimate relationships with other adults. I think the church is full of pedophiles, because priests know the power and access they have. They were pedophiles before they were priests. They are like God in the church. They know they can offend and they go there to do it. They have unfettered access to children and power over them. The Catholic Church is the largest criminal organization in the world, if you ask me.

JMO.

Not to mention that a seminary can become a "breeding ground" for that kind of behavior.

 

[Elley Mae]

Vatican tells U.S. bishops not to vote on proposals to tackle sexual abuse, spurns outside investigations

Vatican tells U.S. bishops not to vote on proposals to tackle sexual abuse, spurns outside investigations

“There may be a temptation on the part of some to relinquish responsibility for reform to others from ourselves, as if we were no longer capable of reforming or trusting ourselves,” Archbishop Christophe Pierre, a French bishop who was sent by Pope Francis to Washington from France in 2016, said. “Assistance is both welcome and necessary, and surely collaboration with the laity is essential. However, the responsibility as bishops of this Catholic Church is ours.”

Pierre quoted a French author who said that “whoever pretends to reform the church with the same means to reform temporal society” will “fail.”

 

[Elley Mae]

Gay people should not join Catholic clergy, Pope Francis says

Gay people should not join Catholic clergy, Pope Francis says

“In consecrated and priestly life, there’s no room for that kind of affection. Therefore, the church recommends that people with that kind of ingrained tendency should not be accepted into the ministry or consecrated life.

“The ministry or the consecrated life is not his place.”

We “have to urge homosexual priests, and men and women religious, to live celibacy with integrity, and above all, that they be impeccably responsible, trying to never scandalise either their communities or the faithful holy people of God,” the pope said.

“It’s better for them to leave the ministry or the consecrated life rather than to live a double life.”

........

I think I see what he is doing. Tells USBishops not to vote on proposals to tackle sexual abuse, now this statement that gays are not welcome.

This is just gay men hitting on adolescent gay boys, you know like men hitting on young girls. So no need for outside investigation, move along.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't agree at all with this assessment. The statement is pro-celibacy, not anti-gay.

The RCC's longstanding rule has been that priests, nuns, and monks, should not have sex (there are a few limited exceptions). He is saying that people who do have sex, should not be in these positions. It has been that way for just under 880 years.

I should note that the word "religious" used in his statement, refers people in religious orders, monks and nuns. No nun, and many of the Catholic monks, are not priests.

The Pope is quoted as saying that the Church, "“have to urge homosexual priests, and men and women religious, to live celibacy with integrity, and above all, that they be impeccably responsible, trying to never scandalize either their communities or the faithful holy people of God.” He could just as easily say that the Church, **have to urge heterosexual priests, and men and women religious, to live celibacy with integrity, and above all, that they be impeccably responsible, trying to never scandalize either their communities or the faithful holy people of God,** because the Church does that as well.

This has to do with ending clerical celibacy, not keeping gay, or straight, people out of the clergy.

There is a school of thought, possibly even expressed earlier in this thread, that if clerical celibacy ended, there would be no abuse. I what I have read, and seen elsewhere, there is no relationship between celibacy and CSA. There are people in the Catholic Church that wish to end clerical celibacy based on this argument, and some who wish to end clerical celibacy that are using this argument for that purpose.

The Pope is basically say, "If you want to be part of the clergy, you can't full around with anyone." In this case, "anyone" means anyone. This applies to a priest molesting a child as much as to a priest sleeping with his 40 year old housekeeper.

 

[Elley Mae]

Pa. Supreme Court: Names Of 11 Clergy Cited In Grand Jury Report Should Not Be Released

Pa. Supreme Court: Names Of 11 Clergy Cited In Grand Jury Report Should Not Be Released – CBS Pittsburgh

The grand jury report singled out more than 300 priests statewide when it was released over the summer. Eleven names, however, were redacted.

The state Supreme Court said Monday that releasing the information would have violated the clergymen’s state constitutional right to have their reputation protected.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Court sides with 11 priests in abuse report and won't release their names - CNN

 

[Elley Mae]

Lists of Priests Accused of Sexual Abuse Are Spilling Out Across the Country

Lists of Priests Accused of Sexual Abuse Are Spilling Out Across the Country

Dio Syracuse list.pdf

 

[Elley Mae]

More than 500 priests accused of sexual abuse not yet publicly identified by Catholic church, Illinois attorney general finds

More than 500 priests accused of sexual abuse not yet publicly identified by Catholic church, Illinois attorney general finds

 

[Jax49]

Cardinal defrocked over abuse allegations

A former Roman Catholic cardinal has been defrocked after historical sexual abuse allegations.

Theodore McCarrick is the most senior Catholic figure to be dismissed from the priesthood in modern times.

US Church officials said allegations he had sexually assaulted a teenager five decades ago were credible.

 

[Jim_M]

Pa. Supreme Court: Names Of 11 Clergy Cited In Grand Jury Report Should Not Be Released

Pa. Supreme Court: Names Of 11 Clergy Cited In Grand Jury Report Should Not Be Released – CBS Pittsburgh

The grand jury report singled out more than 300 priests statewide when it was released over the summer. Eleven names, however, were redacted.

The state Supreme Court said Monday that releasing the information would have violated the clergymen’s state constitutional right to have their reputation protected.

Snip...

Attorney General Josh Shapiro released the following statement on the ruling:

“I have consistently fought for the release of the entire, unredacted Grand Jury report into widespread sexual abuse and cover up within the Pennsylvania Catholic Church. Today’s Order allows predator priests to remain in the shadows and permits the Church to continue concealing their identities.

“I will continue to stand with all survivors, fighting to ensure every victim gets their day in court and that every predator priest and every bishop and church official who enabled child abuse is held accountable for their abhorrent conduct. The public will not relent in its demand that anyone involved in this widespread abuse and cover up be named. No one victim’s truth is any less important than another and no one’s criminal conduct any less loathsome.

“While this Order bars me from releasing the names of these 11 petitioners, nothing in this Order prevents the Dioceses from sharing the shielded names with their parishioners and the public. I call on the Bishops to do so immediately, consistent with their recent calls for transparency.”

I really do like this Attorney General. IMO there should be complete transparency, complete!

 

[mickey2942]

Not to mention that a seminary can become a "breeding ground" for that kind of behavior.

I believe that the option of being a priest, without the expectations of marriage drew many men who were drawn to this behavior. It was a completely acceptable out.

That being said, there are fewer men drawn to priesthood now. The vows of celibacy are too difficult. The Vatican would be well served to consider a change, not unlike the Orthodox church, to allow married priests and lay clergy to perform duties.

 

[Cryptic]

The Vatican would be well served to consider a change, not unlike the Orthodox church, to allow married priests and lay clergy to perform duties.

As a side note, eastern Orthodox priests must marry before ordination, or become celibates. All eastern Orthodox bishops are celibates.

There are also some married Catholic priests- eastern rite Catholic, Anglican Catholic and a few other high church protestant clergy who transferred in and were already married.

The vows of celibacy are too difficult.

I don't think there is a connection between celibacy rules and pedophilia.

I once evaluated pedophiles in an official capacity. All of "my guys" had access to sexual relationships (Ok, perhaps some more than others), and about 50% were actually married. Yet, all had committed various levels of sex crimes against minors.

 

[mickey2942]

As a side note, eastern Orthodox priests must marry before ordination, or become celibates. All eastern Orthodox bishops are celibates.

There are also some married Catholic priests- eastern rite Catholic, Anglican Catholic and a few other high church protestant clergy who transferred in and were already married.

I don't think there is a connection between celibacy rules and pedophilia.

I once evaluated pedophiles in an official capacity. All of "my guys" had access to sexual relationships (Ok, perhaps some more than others), and about 50% were actually married. Yet, all had committed various levels of sex crimes against minors.

Valid. But it would make a larger pool of "normal" men to pick from. Many pedophiles choose professions based on availability to children, and they love the cloak of respectability that the clergy offers.

Pedophiles are a sick bunch.

 

[Cryptic]

Valid. But it would make a larger pool of "normal" men to pick from.

My diocese released the names of 37 individuals going back to the 1950s. During that time frame, there were 2,450 priests in the hercese. The sex criminal ratio was 1.5%.

Now, lets take a random population of 2,450 adult males from my home town- Smallville USA. Would an in-depth investigation uncover 37 males credibly accused of various levels of sex crimes against minors?

Maybe, maybe not? Then factor in that "credibly accused" is a potentially bigger pool than "those convicted of sex crimes". My guess is that there is a pretty good chance one would find the same ratio of credible accusations in the general population. - if there was a way to conduct the study.

Many pedophiles choose professions based on availability to children, and they love the cloak of respectability that the clergy offers.

I can see that some pedophiles seeking out certain professions, but I don't think most do. Anecdotally, "my guys" did not have a noticeable tendency towards child oriented professions.

Though 1 was clergy (not catholic) and another could be considered clergy (also non Catholic) depending on how one defines the term 'clergy', the others had a huge variety of professions.

Some were chronically unemployed- or "unemployable". Others were self employed in work from home professions, others had blue collar trades or were in the military. Others were in retail sales (to adults) and one engineer. I don't know if the lack of a trend that I saw in "my guys" is mirrored across the board though.

 

[mickey2942]

The real problem with the Catholic church, is how they dealt with the situation. They let offenders go to another diocese, after they confessed. Rather than notify authorities, or defrock them at the time.

But, many other entities did the same thing. At least that behavior is no longer acceptable.

 

[Elley Mae]

Catholic diocese of Oakland releases list of 45 men accused of sexual abuse

Catholic diocese of Oakland releases list of 45 men accused of sexual abuse