PA - Helen Miller, 19, stabbed to death by sister, 14, Manheim Twp., Feb 2021

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by Richrd, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    OK not tech savvy, but looking at the same "handle" whatever ya call the @ thing it's not just tik tok but a bunch of you tubes on that channel. Not sure if I can post it, but look at article and it shows you.

    Way.disturbing to me but what do I know? In one there is a man in a hula skirt?

    Also in this young girls mugshot I see scratches on her right side.

    This all is d**n sad.
     
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  2. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    In the article by the DM it says "videos posted by Miller made their way to TikTok's 'For You Page,' TikTok's recommendation feed, before the account was removed. Is that what you're referring to?

    Anyway, it would explain how the pictures and videos were able to reach a wider audience.
     
  3. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Some of those pictures look like they were taken earlier, maybe as long as a few months ago. It looks like she was trying to represent a bloody crime scene using the giraffe as the victim. The tree trunk looks about the same size as the tree in their front yard.

    She may have been having urges for awhile and tried to resist them. Whoever she spoke to on the phone on the night of the murder said she was suicidal or homicidal. She may have reached out to them for help.

    Either way, she committed an unforgivable act. She may have felt remorseful afterwards. That she immediately called 911 and was hysterical shows she knew what she did was wrong. She also may have covered her sister's face with the pillow out of guilt and shame. Her age may be a factor when deciding where she is placed and what her sentence will be. There may be hope for some type of rehabilitation.

    The maximum penalty for 1st degree murder in PA is life without parole or in rare cases, death. Imo
     
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  4. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    This case chills me to the bone. I think she had premeditated doing this horrific violence long before she carried it out.

    She's too young for the death penalty to be an option. The defendant must be 18 years of age or older per the USSC.

    Its certain she certainly was having homicidal thoughts, and sadly for her beautiful sister, and family she carried it out in a horrendous manner.

    Imo, she had been having thoughts of wanting to kill someone long before she did. She selected her sister as her target because she knew she was the easiest, and most vulnerable to prey upon.

    She reminds me of other young teen killers who killed innocent victims because they wanted to kill them to satisfy the fantasy they had thought about for some time. The fantasy of just murdering someone no longer satisfied them. They usually prey on victims who they know are vulnerable. One case comes to mind when another young female teen killer lured an innocent 9 year old child in order to murder her, and did. She wanted to know what it felt like to murder someone, and there have been many other young teen murderers doing horrific premeditated murders. Some murdered their victims because they wanted to experience the thrill of killing someone whether it was someone they knew well or lured victims they didnt know well. Some of the violent offenders invaded homes of those they did not even know to kill them for the thrill of being able to do so.

    I don't think she will be declared mentally ill... and will be found competent to stand trial. Imo, she's another teen killer devoid of feelings at the time they murdered. Her picture to me shows her eyes are vacant.

    Imo she knew her parents would know she was the one who murdered her sister. It may come out she had made violent threats before, and may have even abused her sister in the past before ultimately murdering her.

    It's obvious her homicidal violence far outweighed any suicidal thoughts. I don't even think she thought about killing herself or she would have tried to harm herself which she did not.

    I hope she gets the harshest sentence allowed for she brutally murdered someone she knew had a disability. I do hope the scratches are from her dead sister. How horrible it must have been for her sister to know her own sister was going to kill her. Imo, her dead sister may have been more loving, and likable than her killer sister who seems to have been very strange. Her sister seems to be happy even though disabled.

    I certainly don't see any evidence she murdered her sister in cold blood because she felt sorry for her. Nor do I see this teen killer as the one who took care of her sister either. I think she selected her sister to fulfill her homicidal fantasy ideations because she knew she was the easiest target due to her vulnerability.

    My heart goes out to the murdered sister, and her parents. I can't even imagine what it must feel like knowing their child was brutally murdered, and knowing her precious life was taken by another child. What an ultimate betrayal they will have to live with for the rest of their lives.

    Jmho
     
  5. Mimi in London

    Mimi in London Well-Known Member

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    Gosh. I look at her ‘empty eyes’ and thought something quite different. I see a very young girl who had clearly been losing touch with reality for some time and whose mental health needs were not being met or taken seriously enough.
     
  6. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    I think it's too soon to know if her mental health issues were not taken seriously or her needs weren't being met. She may have been in therapy or taking medication. It's also very difficult to diagnose children that age since their personalities are still developing.

    We haven't heard all the details yet, but it would be even more alarming if people knew she was a danger to others and didn't take action or try to get her help.

    Do we know where the parents were that night? It doesn't mention them even being there when police got to the house in any news articles. They must be devastated.
     
  7. elliefant

    elliefant Numpty

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    Re DM article. The bloodied giraffe & glove video & stills do not have her username. They were posted to social media by another user who claims they took them from the 14 year old’s social media but there is nothing to confirm that. They only have the new reposter’s username attached and nothing to show where they came from. Can we be sure they did come from CM? There are enough oddballs and trolls in the world for me to wonder.

    The other videos are all selfie ones and have her own username attached.
     
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  8. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it hasn't been confirmed that the giraffe and glove pictures are from her account. Her attorney would not answer any questions about it.

    ETA I deleted the rest of my post because I don't think we can discuss a SM account that's been removed or hasn't been mentioned in MSM.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  9. LeeAnnB

    LeeAnnB Well-Known Member

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    I watched all her Tic Toks several days ago when my daughter sent the link to me. What I saw was a lonely girl, obsessed with Anime, acting silly like many of the other Tic Tockers. The goal of everybody seems to have their videos go viral... so they are often out to shock. It seemed her themes were more about having crushes on these cartoon characters. I searched for signs of violence but only found the one with a violent song. The best I can describe her Tic Toks were just plain silly. I was in sleuth mode looking for clues and came up empty.
     
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  10. dalsglen

    dalsglen Well-Known Member

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    In one of the first articles it was said that the parents were asleep, they had no idea what had happened until the police arrived.
     
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  11. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    OK not tech savvy, but looking at the same "handle" whatever ya call the @ thing it's not just tik tok but a bunch of you tubes on that channel. Not sure if I can post it, but look at article and it shows you.

    Way.disturbing to me but what do I know? In one there is a man in a hula skirt?

    Also in this young girls mugshot I see scratches on her right side.

    This all is d**n sad.
    No. It's youtube. In one she screams "It's not fair over and over"
     
  12. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    @spiritsandsuchconsulting

    Our poor kids.
     
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  13. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, all the videos you describe were from her TikTok account. Maybe someone posted them on YouTube.
     
  14. Lusitana

    Lusitana Well-Known Member

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    She seems like a normal kid for the most part, maybe depressed. I used to be a depressed 14-year-old too, ended up getting better and working around it. I think it happens more now too, it's pretty "normal" to have depressed, sad, stressed out kids. She seemed pretty normal up until she murdered her own sister.

    I don't understand why people still get weirded out about kids expressing themselves differently these days, we always had punks, goths, etc. I know it gets a bit creepy when we add the fact that she actually killed someone on top of her hair, clothes, anime, videos, etc. But I'm pretty sure it doesn't actually relate. This girl might have liked Taylor Swift and flowers, and pink, and cute little things and she might have still murdered her sister.

    This kid clearly has some pretty serious mental health issues, maybe she never reached out to anyone until it was too late. She's a kid, do we really know what our kids are doing and thinking about doing all the time? We don't. I just wish she had reached out to someone who would've helped her out so this tragedy could have been avoided.

    That poor girl though, she didn't deserve to be killed, much less by her own little sister. I think Claire felt remorse and that's why she put the pillow on her face. She could've easily killed her parents too, they were sound asleep and didn't hear a thing until LE came into the home. But she didn't, she called 911 and waited outside. Why didn't she go to her parents to ask for help? Such a sad, tragic, odd case.

    I don't think I can follow this one though, it's just way too much for me.
     
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  15. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    Thanks, @LeeAnnB, for your research.
    It almost seems that the more we find out about Claire, the more confused things become. Is she a cold-blooded, jealous and hate-filled sister, or is she someone with untreated, and possibly unrecognized serious mental problems? Craving attention? Was she, in this horrible act, reaching out for help, or was she just plain mean and wanting to be rid of her big sister?
    SMH. This is just so awful.
    I do wonder how her poor parents are even able to breathe. Can you imagine?
     
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  16. Lilibet

    Lilibet Well-Known Member

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    Such a deeply compassionate post, @Lusitana.

    Several years ago in my town, a 12 year old boy from a fairly affluent family stabbed his mother to death. It was later determined that he was angry because she took away his computer because of a bad grade in school. He also stabbed his sister, but she survived.

    Sleuth that I am, I discovered that he had been watching horribly violent video games (including graphic stabbing) on a Y0uTube account in his mother’s name. I contacted the police chief in case it was a factor. Eventually, it was decided it was.

    As you can see from the linked article that includes a letter from his dad, he was a boy with many wholesome interests and no psychiatric disorder. He was sentenced to confinement at the Oregon Youth Authority until he is 25, after which the State is confident that he can be released without being a danger to his family or society. I hope for the same outcome for Claire. There is such a thing as redemption. Even in the case of a horrific crime like this.

    Ashland boy who murdered his mother sentenced - KOBI-TV NBC5 / KOTI-TV NBC2

    GUILTY - OR - Pamela Wolosz, 52, killed, daughter injured, 12yo son charged, 10 Jan 2017

    My final comment about this case:

    GUILTY - OR - Pamela Wolosz, 52, killed, daughter injured, 12yo son charged, 10 Jan 2017
     
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  17. borndem

    borndem Anglophile & registered demwit

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    bbm
    You're right, @Filly, I went back and looked at her shot, and there are a couple of scratches on the right side of her neck in the pic.
    I still don't know what to think of this tragedy, and it's just like you said above, it's all so d**n sad. Those poor parents and other relatives, too, I'm sure.
    No winners here.
     
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  18. Gibbo214

    Gibbo214 Former Member

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    She is a child.
     
  19. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    In PA any minor will be charged as an adult for murder. A child who is 14 or older can be sentenced to 25 years to life in prison for 1st degree murder. Imo
     
  20. Gibbo214

    Gibbo214 Former Member

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    I was responding to the poster who considered this 'She's too young for the death penalty to be an option.' And again, I say, she is a child.
     
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