PA - Helen Miller, 19, stabbed to death by sister, 14, Manheim Twp., Feb 2021

[Alethea]

Bouts of psychosis? What was her actual diagnosis, and when was she diagnosed? (I can't access the lancasteronline article.) IF she was having delusions that night, that's a game-changer for me, but did she say anything about that to LE that night? How quickly could someone having a delusion come back to reality?

From the article. It appears this came from the court-ordered psychiatrists:

Rushing and another psychiatrist, Dr. Aneela Khan, both testified that they diagnosed Claire as having major depressive disorder, anxiety and in active psychosis at the time of the killing and that the illnesses were brought about by the major trauma she had been enduring: gender dysphoria, the bullying, a friend’s attempted suicide, and the isolation brought on by the pandemic.

Rushing and Kahn both testified that Claire has been responding to treatment and her hallucinations are much better. Both gave her a good prognosis.

But on cross-examination by Assistant District Attorney Amy Muller, they said they could not say for certain what would happen in the future.

 

[Doghairrules]

From the article. It appears this came from the court-ordered psychiatrists:

Rushing and another psychiatrist, Dr. Aneela Khan, both testified that they diagnosed Claire as having major depressive disorder, anxiety and in active psychosis at the time of the killing and that the illnesses were brought about by the major trauma she had been enduring: gender dysphoria, the bullying, a friend’s attempted suicide, and the isolation brought on by the pandemic.

Rushing and Kahn both testified that Claire has been responding to treatment and her hallucinations are much better. Both gave her a good prognosis.

But on cross-examination by Assistant District Attorney Amy Muller, they said they could not say for certain what would happen in the future.

This actually gives me some hope for her future. From what I understand (and referred to in this article), this kind of psychosis ONLY happens during major depressive episodes. So if they can successfully treat the depression, they should be able to successfully prevent the psychosis. Probably an oversimplification, but to me this is a better diagnosis than schizophrenia, and obviously much better than psychopathy.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

If that's what happened, I can understand her parents hoping she'll be able to go home. I think I judged too harshly previously in this thread.

 

[Richrd]

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18 July 2022 Court Date

Google™ Supplments & Updates:

Claire Miller - Lancaster, PA - Google Search

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[MsBetsy]

It says the assistant DA told the judge, "Miller was a kid who had it all but was obsessed with homicide," citing thousands of text messages to a friend expressing a desire to harm someone.

So apparently she wasn't only having homicidal thoughts the night of the murder, it was going on for months according to the prosecution. It's too bad she didn't get help sooner.

I feel so bad for her parents. They lost both daughters if CM ends up going to prison.

ETA I tried to quote the post above but it didn't work. The article is from 8 WGAL from the link quoted above.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Psychiatrists Aneela Khan and Susan Rushing testified that the defendant lived with auditory hallucinations which told her to cut her own throat the night of her sister’s death. They diagnosed her with major depressive disorder, anxiety, and psychosis. The doctors attributed the diagnoses to stress from gender dysphoria, bullying, and the COVID-19 pandemic. Claire attempt to cut herself on the neck, then she attempted stabbing the hallucination until her sister’s blood snapped her out of it, Rushing said.

The defendant was in psychosis and her brain had yet to fully develop, Rushing testified.

“Even our best and brightest children have demons,” defense lawyer Robert Beyer said, according to WGAL. “We need to deal with them.”

Prosecutors presented a different picture of the teenager. They highlighted evidence that indicated long-term homicidal ideations and the lack of a psychotic break. Citing thousands of texts, the state maintained Claire for months expressed the desire to hurt someone.

Forensic psychiatrist John O’Brien, who testified for the state, said he could not reach a diagnosis for defendant Miller. She had mild symptoms, which were not unusual for teenagers. He mentioned how prison medical providers described the 14-year-old as normal, contrasting with the defense’s position.

“She described gasping for air, talking about her hallucinations and was upset and anxious and tearful,” O’Brien said. “There was a night and day difference between Rushing and personnel at the prison.”

'Oooh, McDonalds': 14-Year-Old Allegedly Said She'd Have Killed Someone Sooner If She Knew She'd Get Fast Food for Breakfast

Over a three-day preliminary hearing, a judge saw dueling portraits of a 14-year-old girl charged with killing her disabled older sister.

lawandcrime.com

 

[MsBetsy]

Psychiatrists Aneela Khan and Susan Rushing testified that the defendant lived with auditory hallucinations which told her to cut her own throat the night of her sister’s death. They diagnosed her with major depressive disorder, anxiety, and psychosis. The doctors attributed the diagnoses to stress from gender dysphoria, bullying, and the COVID-19 pandemic. Claire attempt to cut herself on the neck, then she attempted stabbing the hallucination until her sister’s blood snapped her out of it, Rushing said.

The defendant was in psychosis and her brain had yet to fully develop, Rushing testified.

“Even our best and brightest children have demons,” defense lawyer Robert Beyer said, according to WGAL. “We need to deal with them.”

Prosecutors presented a different picture of the teenager. They highlighted evidence that indicated long-term homicidal ideations and the lack of a psychotic break. Citing thousands of texts, the state maintained Claire for months expressed the desire to hurt someone.

Forensic psychiatrist John O’Brien, who testified for the state, said he could not reach a diagnosis for defendant Miller. She had mild symptoms, which were not unusual for teenagers. He mentioned how prison medical providers described the 14-year-old as normal, contrasting with the defense’s position.

“She described gasping for air, talking about her hallucinations and was upset and anxious and tearful,” O’Brien said. “There was a night and day difference between Rushing and personnel at the prison.”

'Oooh, McDonalds': 14-Year-Old Allegedly Said She'd Have Killed Someone Sooner If She Knew She'd Get Fast Food for Breakfast

Over a three-day preliminary hearing, a judge saw dueling portraits of a 14-year-old girl charged with killing her disabled older sister.

lawandcrime.com

This is going to be an interesting trial considering the experts on both sides found opposite results. It might be difficult to prove temporary insanity when the state doctors claim she is a normal teenager.

Miller's comment that she 'would have killed her sister sooner if she knew she'd get McDonald's' may show a lack of empathy but I'm not sure it points to her not knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Thousands of text message over a period of months is pretty significant. She was having these urges for a long time. Poor Helen was an easy target.

Her lawyer may convince the judge to try her as a juvenile. If they can prove she was insane at the time of the murder, I would think her chances would be better.

In juvenile prison she would get years of therapy before moving on to prison, depending on her sentence.

If she's tried as an adult, she could possibly end up in a psychiatric prison. I think insanity will be hard to prove, though. Her explanation for the murder was that she was trying to kill the hallucination when she stabbed her sister.

If she was having these symptoms for months, why didn't anybody notice?

 

[ElizB]

Psychiatrists Aneela Khan and Susan Rushing testified that the defendant lived with auditory hallucinations which told her to cut her own throat the night of her sister’s death. They diagnosed her with major depressive disorder, anxiety, and psychosis. The doctors attributed the diagnoses to stress from gender dysphoria, bullying, and the COVID-19 pandemic. Claire attempt to cut herself on the neck, then she attempted stabbing the hallucination until her sister’s blood snapped her out of it, Rushing said

BBM
She was having auditory hallucinations. How does that square with “stabbing the hallucination”?

 

[MsBetsy]

BBM
She was having auditory hallucinations. How does that square with “stabbing the hallucination”?

I think the defense is implying the voices were coming from her sister.

The coroner said the stab wounds indicated it was a controlled or intentional killing, while the defense claims the wounds on Helen's face show she was trying to stop the voices.

 

[Goecke]

'Oooh, McDonalds': 14-Year-Old Allegedly Said She'd Have Killed Someone Sooner If She Knew She'd Get Fast Food for Breakfast

Over a three-day preliminary hearing, a judge saw dueling portraits of a 14-year-old girl charged with killing her disabled older sister.

lawandcrime.com

I don't know if this has been posted before, but this is deeply disturbing. I may be biased due to being physically disabled myself, but I find it VERY hard to find any sympathy for Claire. If this article is true, it really shows how little she valued her sister's life.

 

[Lusitana]

Everything about this case is horrific.

 

[ElizB]

I think the defense is implying the voices were coming from her sister.

The coroner said the stab wounds indicated it was a controlled or intentional killing, while the defense claims the wounds on Helen's face show she was trying to

Thank you!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

When the details of Helen’s injuries were read out loud during the hearing, Claire asked to be excused from the courtroom. Marie Miller, Helen and Claire’s mother, pleaded with the court to give her daughter help, not punishment. The mother said:

“We love both of them. I know Claire did not mean to do this. We lost Helen and we don’t want to lose Claire too. We don’t want her to be punished, not get help, and be put away for a long period for something that was out of her control. We can’t lose her too.”

Teen who fatally stabbed disabled older sister would have killed "sooner if I knew I would get McDonald's"

14-year-old who fatally stabbed older sister, who is disabled, said she would have "killed someone sooner if she knew she would get McDonald's"

www.lawenforcementtoday.com

 

[ChatteringBirds]

The McDonald's comment is so odd. Her friend never turning to an adult with information about the texts is tragic. If she sent messages for months, she was spiraling. How sad that she otherwise hid her mental struggles so well.
MOO.

 

[Laughing]

The McDonald's comment is so odd. Her friend never turning to an adult with information about the texts is tragic. If she sent messages for months, she was spiraling. How sad that she otherwise hid her mental struggles so well.
MOO.

Respectfully, we don't really know that.

The school cannot release information, medical personal cannot release information.

Both adults & youth may have been aware, and may have taken steps that seemed appropriate.

But, I certainly agree that more or different action may have saved Helen's life.

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[Lusitana]

Now, knowing what happened, we think "oh man, that kid should've said something" but when you're 12/13/14 you just say stupid stuff and don't actually mean it. It's sad and unfortunate but I can't blame a teen for not saying "hey Claire said she wanted to kill someone".

The McDonald's comment really felt, to me, like something a teen says for shock value and nothing else. She's clearly disturbed and needs help but that McDonald's comment frankly sounds like just a dumb kid saying dumb kid stuff trying to shock the adults and make a "I'm not scared" stance.

 

[PawneeDew]

My granddaughter turns 14 years old tomorrow. I can hardly believe it. She’s my last grandchild. Her emotional intelligence is high. She socially fits into any age group. Young and old. My oldest granddaughter, 21, has helped her mature at a faster rate than most kids round her. Might I add, she’s perfect and beautiful...lol grandma is biased. She’s extremely confident and likes herself. Shes wears her smile and it glows. Shes the most popular kid around. She’s very involved with her church (socially distant) and just got back last night from church camp. She has a best friend the next street over that she’s been inseparable with since the first grade. My daughter is extremely involved in their lives. The father’s not good for much; but the girls love him. He’s not really been around and has not financially provided since my daughter left him. She likes homeschool, has advanced one grade already and working on a second.

Then again, my oldest gd did not have the same results when she was 14. She was too mature for her age I think sometimes. The divorce hit her very hard. She was a bit socially awkward in middle school. She hated school, cried all the time and ran away from school. She didn’t have many close friends. She felt bullied and different. My daughter admitted her to a behavioral health center for two weeks. She was carefully monitored as she was suicidal and threatened to cut herself. She didn’t like herself. Through a continuum of care ~ most vital to her successful recovery. Lots and lots of love and understanding from all of us got her through it. She was a late bloomer. She started blossoming after she graduated. She’s a full blooming rose now. Her life and future is so promising. It was so difficult helping her through those dark days. Listening to her sobs. When she hurt, we hurt. She had all of us to communicate her feelings. And we listened.

All teens are different. Their brain is still developing. I feel for this girl. What happened to her? Why is Claire this way? Were there signs? Kids need someone to talk to...

Awwwww. Imstilla.grandma so glad she's a blooming rose now! That's awesome! Everyone needs someone to talk to. Especially kids.

 

[Richrd]

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Case to Remain in Adult Court

Claire Miller to remain in adult court for sister's death, Lancaster County judge rules [update]

Citing Claire Miller’s need for “extensive mental health treatment,” a Lancaster County judge on Monday denied a defense request to move the teenager’s homicide charge for killing her older sister

lancasteronline.com

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[Mimi in London]

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Case to Remain in Adult Court

Claire Miller to remain in adult court for sister's death, Lancaster County judge rules [update]

Citing Claire Miller’s need for “extensive mental health treatment,” a Lancaster County judge on Monday denied a defense request to move the teenager’s homicide charge for killing her older sister

lancasteronline.com

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[realanastasia]

"Citing Claire Miller’s need for “extensive mental health treatment,” a Lancaster County judge on Monday denied a defense request to move the teenager’s homicide charge for killing her older sister to juvenile court.

Judge David Workman acknowledged how unusual the case is, in that Miller’s parents are both the victims of the crime but also support shifting their younger daughter’s case to juvenile court, a venue that prioritizes rehabilitation and supervision until a minor defendant reaches age 21.

Loud sobs could be heard as Workman announced his ruling, presumably from Miller, her mother, or both. Reporters watched the hearing on a remote television in a different courtroom and did not have a clear view of the other courtroom."

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Case to Remain in Adult Court

Claire Miller to remain in adult court for sister's death, Lancaster County judge rules [update]

Citing Claire Miller’s need for “extensive mental health treatment,” a Lancaster County judge on Monday denied a defense request to move the teenager’s homicide charge for killing her older sister

lancasteronline.com

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