GUILTY PA - Husband charged in cyanide poisoning death of Dr. Autumn Klein

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Wolf Dreamer, May 2, 2013.

  1. LynnM

    LynnM New Member

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    In one of the articles it states that there is a rule about not eating or drinking anything at all in the lab and another that lab chemicals are not to be consumed. Also, he would have bought the creatine using grant money so he shouldn't have been using it for personal consumption. That behavior in itself would have caused comment!

    He has researched creatine with mouse models for many years now. I can see him telling Autumn that he found it to increase fertility in the mice and her buying the story. That wasn't the focus of his research, but it's plausible that it could have been a finding. With creatine now in clinical trials for Huntington's disease, I would imagine Autumn has heard a lot over the years about the positive properties of creatine.
     


  2. Aristotle

    Aristotle New Member

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    Not only did he drink the stuff in the lab, where eating and drinking is prohibited, mercifully, he trotted back home with a gallon of the stuff which was purportedly to be used for grant funded projects at Pitt. Just love it when neurologists bring stuff home for their wives to drink. But the idea that the bag was lying around even as the paramedics came reminds me of the case where another doctor who murdered his wife by cyanide (slipping her a pill as she left to drive off) and absently stored the cyanide in his cabinets. In that case, the wife had managed to phone a friend that his pill had made her feel sick, the clinching fact.

    In this case I also wonder of an admirable karma. Haven't read anything to this effect, but possibly it was the creatine that kept Autumn alive, allowing them to test blood, etc. Because when cyanide is suspected, they can do things like B12 shots. Don't know but would love to hear whether creatine, which does more than gym rat muscle building (e.g. has uses in congestive heart failure) might have been the thing that prolonged her death (and agony, unfortunately), and that prolonging was what led to the discovery of the poison. Creatine expert learns what creatine can really do. A kind of karma.
     
  3. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    That's the reason university could have used to now allow him into the lab. Of course if his wife didn't die from cyanide poisoning they probably wouldn't care all that much if he drunk the creatine.
     
  4. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    Maybe he used her phone while texting that message. The text message, itself, seems strange if she is a doctor she would not have to ask him if it were alright to take creatine? She would already know. Sounds to me he was the one who texted those message back and forth, that somehow he had her phone. jmo
     
  5. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Why would he do that? Why would he plant messages that show he was the one trying to convince her to take creatine, that it was not her idea? These text messages were prior to her collapse, when she was still alive, so I am sure she had her phone with her. There is not much scientific information regarding creatine and pregnancy, so even if she is a doctor, that doesn't provide her with much information. Like suggested above, she could have believed him since he did research on mice and creatine. He could have convinced her he discovered it increased fertility in mice and such.
     
  6. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    I can't get past the fact that she would want to get pregnant when she was making arrangements to leave him within a short period of time. Something just does not make sense. jmo
     
  7. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    She could only have been telling her male friend she is planning to leave her husband without actually planning to do so.
    Like married people do.
    She obviously took the creatine, it wasn't forcefully fed to her.
     
  8. LambChop

    LambChop Former Member

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    Unfortunately it is difficult to assume anything right now because it's not clear what happened. We only have his word about what happened. Should be interesting when this goes to trial. jmo
     
  9. Aristotle

    Aristotle New Member

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    It does seem counterintuitive that someone would want to conceive a child who is planning to leave a husband (and the defense will probably use this to say they were very much in love). But I'm fairly sure he would be trying to woo her backin order for his plan to work, and unfortunately on her part, the world is full of people who think the baby will save the marriage. And from the emails, she doesnt seem to have much faith in it. Mild ha, she says. Tired woman returning home from a long day at work, plans for the morning, offered the drink, says o.k. But why didnt he put away the glass vial? The hubris of it!

    I have also wondered where Cianna, the daughter, was all this time. One source said, F told the parental Kleins that he was waiting at home for his daughter to be picked up, and they would go together...and something about that wording...I took to mean the daughter was out. Another plot..was she always out late like that when the parents are leaving next day?
     
  10. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    From what has been reported, daughter was in the house with them when her mother collapsed.
     
  11. Aristotle

    Aristotle New Member

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    I have to agree with Always Shocked, that the man was losing his marbles. His best defense. But golly gee, I thought he might get away with this!!
     
  12. Aristotle

    Aristotle New Member

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  13. AlwaysShocked

    AlwaysShocked Well-Known Member

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    I think the wording in that article was incorrect. He would have been waiting at the house for someone to pick up the child so HE could go to the hospital. And he did apparently get to the ER while they were still working on her, since the one witness commented on how his reaction seemed to be that of a "bad actor".

    Earlier in this story, was it not revealed that her organs were harvested for donation? I'll bet he didn't like that one bit! The organ donation aspect is the reason she would have been kept "alive" (on machines) for as long as she was. Otherwise, with permission of family, they remove the machines and let the person go.

    Re this: "the case where another doctor who murdered his wife by cyanide (slipping her a pill as she left to drive off) and absently stored the cyanide in his cabinets."

    I can't remember this guy's name, but I watched his trial. One of the things that astounded me in his case is that yes, he left cyanide-filled vitamin pills in the bottle in the kitchen cabinet. And they were still there two WEEKS later when police finally obtained a search warrant for his house!

    I guess these dumb azz murderers just don't watch as many trials and read as many true crime books as we here at websleuths do, huh?

    Sorry. I do think this is so very sad. A caring physician dead. A child with no parents. How sad.

    ---------

    In his post-murder, pre-arrest travels, Ferrante explained that he was making arrangements for the care of the little girl in case he was arrested. His travels took him to California (where his adult daughter who is also a physician lives) and then to Florida where his sister lives. He "established residence" in Florida so the daughter "could get into a good school there". So I guess California was not an option.
     
  14. Blondie in Spokane

    Blondie in Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I think that was yazeed essa....astounded me too! What a sleazy creep!
     
  15. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Maybe these type of men think that because of their status in the community, no one will suspect them of anything.
     
  16. time

    time New Member

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    I can just see a very tedious trial with all kinds of obscure testimony on creatine, both putting the jury to sleep and making their eyes cross at the same time. Reasonable doubt? I doubt it but was that what he was thinking as a plan B just in case they actually tested for cyanide? I don't think he ever thought they would test for it and they almost didn't.
     
  17. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    Considering he drunk that creatine himself (per his lab person testimony) and is still with us, I doubt he would get anywhere with that. But yea, I think he was creating an alibi in case somebody did suspect cyanide poisoning.
     
  18. Aristotle

    Aristotle New Member

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    Could there be a slight glitch in the indictment..says the Quest specimen was collected at something like apr 18 at 14:23, and a second specimen that same date at 06:00, which is earlier. I think they mean, the next day. Retreading the indictment, the guy gets uglier. When I first glommed onto this case, I kept staring at his kind and intelligent face, wondering how this could be, but now I read his face so differently, and my heart truly breaks that innocent people could so cruelly suffer.
     
  19. colette

    colette Well-Known Member

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    They could have drawn many tubes of blood when she first came in. Then later sent one of the first drawn tubes off for the cyanide test. That could account for the 2 different times. Many times when a very sick patient arrives in the hospital, extra tubes of blood are obtained "just in case". This is very, very common.
     
  20. nursebeeme

    nursebeeme Registered User

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    I actually disagree. She was on life support and a reperfusion machine. When someone is in this state in the hospital an arterial blood gas is done (many of them actually) to check the acid base balance and the above article indicated that her blood was bright red and she was acidotic. Those two things combined alone would tip them off to run tests for poisons such as cyanide. This was a young woman with no history of cardiac problems as far as I am aware?:twocents::twocents:

    His downfall was that he was not an MD. He was, however, narcisscistic and thought he knew what they would do in an emergency situation. I am so glad to hear that he was arrested!
     

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