Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by cvaldez1975, Apr 26, 2018.
that's true. my partner and I don't air our gripes for all to see on social media, but many do.
A private funeral was held for Meredith on Wednesday. I don't know how to add a link from my iPad but google news journal or Meredith chapman and you'll see the latest. Please post the link if you can. Thank you,
Here it is!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
According to the Daily Mail link upthread, MG received at least some of the texts while awaiting his dinner date with MC. Though given the timeframe, he couldn't have waited too long, so how many he received at that time is unknown as is the timeframe in which they were sent.
This case is truly a puzzle...many things (to me) are unusual--beyond the statistical rarity mentioned upthread of a murder-suicide involving 2 well-educated, successful females. There is a lack of facts forthcoming in the news, other than the same narrative reprinted again and again. There are many unanswered questions, and not many journalists doing much digging (at least not currently).
Questions I'd love to see explored (JMO)--these are not brought up to point a finger at anyone, but simply are my own questions unanswered as of yet from the sketchy reading thus far:
Is there any first-hand incriminating evidence (NOT techy--not Internet or texted on a cellphone) that JG was planning to murder MC? Any private conversation with her family, friend, clergyman or therapist?
The first message said to have been left by JG in that neighborhood app forum in Feb 2018 was to ask for a reputable, successful divorce attorney. The 2nd one--in March-- is a desperate one asking for a good therapist, one equipped to handle a detailed list of issues including psychological ones (depression, trauma, etc.) Does anyone else wonder about the sequence of these forum posts? Assuming the subject of divorce was brought up in Feb, why not ask for the counselor first, then the "successful" divorce atty the month later? Do we know with certainty that both (or either) of those messages were actually made by JG?
How often does someone planning a murder share their detailed, written plans ahead of time with a loved one who might have the greatest cause to alert authorities and prevent it? Why would they share those plans with *anyone* ahead of time, let alone someone who'd have the power and extreme motivation to stop them by reporting their threats to LE? If emails as well as texts were sent, when did these start? Was this an escalating thing, or did all the emails/texts happen at the restaurant Monday night while MG was waiting for MC?
If a suicide gunshot is heard immediately following the murder gunshot as reports have suggested, then why was the bag with wig and clothes not belonging to MC also found at the house? Was suicide a split-second departure from a leave-in-disguise plan, and if so, why? Did those bagged clothes match or not match those worn by the person the neighbor noticed casing MC's house with binoculars on 4/21 Saturday afternoon around 3:00pm? Was the wig blonde or a different color?
Timeline questions concerning Monday 4/23 (using mostly Daily Mail for times, with details corroborated by a few other articles upthread):
2:40pm Stamped receipt from a gas station in town near MC's house--was JG also seen on surveillance camera? What was bought? If just gas and self-pumped, is there surveillance camera to show it was JG using the card at the pump?
5:00 to 6:00pm - According to MC's neighbor, she sees MC arrive home between 5:00 and 6:00, driving to the back and getting out of the car with a bag. She does not see MC enter the back door due to bushes blocking her sight, but shortly after that gunshots are heard by her and at least one other neighbor. We are told by LE that MC walked into her home 'directly into an ambush,' and also that the suicide shot happened right after the murder shot. The neighbor who saw her doesn't call 911, questioning what she heard, but someone else (another neighbor, I believe I read?) does.
If MC arrives home with a bag and enters her house between 5 and 6pm, it'd be safe to assume she meant to freshen up before driving to her dinner date--so assuming the date is set at the earliest for 6:00, MG is sitting at some restaurant awaiting her between 6:00 and 7:00 (at which latter time he is found in MC's driveway by LE arriving on the scene).
1. How is JG sending MG threatening texts between 6pm and 7pm if MC was shot immediately upon entering her home at 5:00 to 6pm at the latest, and JG killed herself immediately after shooting MC?
2. If shots were heard fired right after MC entered her home, and the neighbor said she arrived at 6pm at the latest, why did LE pull up and discover MG in the driveway at 7:00pm? The timeline seems off, here. That town is small, and nowhere does it take LE an hour to respond to reports of gunshots.
3. How close is the restaurant to MC's home on Lowry Lane?
Again, just questions, due to the sparse reporting on this story. There may be perfectly reasonable answers or corrections to all of this--just saying that as read, or perhaps as reported, it's not making complete sense, yet. And there are some noticeable gaps in the story. IMO, JMO...
(*All of the above taken solely from the links on the first three pages of this thread, particularly the Daily Mail one.)
Excellent observations and points well made.
I’m wondering if MC met MG somewhere before she hired him – e.g., a conference in their field.They’re attracted, she tells him there’s an opportunity in her shop, he up and moves from SC to DE quickly, his wife takes a month or two longer to get up there...by then the affair is in full swing. She dumps her husband, a prominent guy (who looks very nice) in DE and at the U. I’m betting the university found out about this affair involving married people and management said: This is unacceptable, and one or both of you have to leave. Through family connections she gets a high-level job quickly at Villanova. MG told his wife and was going through the 6-month waiting period for divorce in DE. Either the U let him go or he was so ostracized that he left. He’s pushing 50, I bet he had a midlife crisis (and maybe thought about kids with a younger woman)—too bad he couldn’t just join a gym or buy a convertible, or have the decency to wait on seeing someone else until he was divorced. Couldn't keep it zipped! There’s NO excuse here for murder but I feel sad that his wife became so distraught…she didn’t have a job, her friends, community, house…it's really sad, but no excuse for killing. MC was complicit in this tragedy, by choosing to get involved with a married man and helping to break up a family (and so I found her family’s quick, effusive PR statement in very poor taste). Yes, MC was young (but old enough to know better), attractive, and accomplished. If her "marriage to Luke had ended," as they wrote, she couldn't leave him first and then date single, age-appropriate men?? Shows terrible morals. And does JG's state say something about the state of mental-health care, gun control, and social isolation in this country? I think so.Yet again we have a mentally ill person who needs care, doesn’t get care (or even any responses on social media), and gets access to a gun. Please, detectives, keep looking into MG's stories about all this.
Thanks for this food for thought. I was hungry about this case.
I've read some theories already about MC's and MG's nearly synchronized departure from UD, but you laid it out comprehensively so as to validate those suspicions.
I also agree with so many of your perceptions, but still hold fast to my feeling that if MC and MG met in their work environment and MC hadn't shown any interest/attraction to MG, he wouldn't have ventured outside of the marriage. I don't think he was "looking" for an affair, but I think he was overcome by the attention of a younger woman which he may have found new and refreshing, never stopping to consider the moral implications and devastation which could follow. Essentially, I am suggesting I don't think he was prone to having a mid-life crisis, or at least coping with one by pursuing an affair, separation, and divorce (in that order), but for a younger woman's interest in and attraction to him. I said before and will say again, I don't believe the mid-life crisis was the catalyst for the affair. Rather, I believe the affair was the catalyst for the mid-life crisis, as there wasn't any evidence the Gerardot marriage was faulty beforehand. Contrarily, MG reflected great commitment in his marriage to JG, until...the change, which was MC!
The more discussion on this matter I read, the more I suspect they mutually decided to terminate their own marriages to be together. I agree, what would have been the harm in waiting and concluding their relationships before fully engaging in their new one? They JUST met, after all, and were willing to throw away their spouses for new romance, as in lust, not love. But now I am really entertaining the idea they were confidentially asked to leave their positions at UD because their romance (between two married people, as you pointed out) was discovered.
I also could read between the lines of MC's family's representative's public statement. I understand wanting to ward off the negative attention of their deceased loved one who was ultimately a victim and doesn't have any future in their lives, but they also seemed to skirt the issues of MC's accountability for some very questionably poor personal decisions in engaging a married man, after having discarded her own marriage, most probably for a new man. Now, this isn't uncommon, but it is unhealthy and involves unnecessary risks.
P.S. I find MG's decisions and actions to leave his marriage especially egregious because he had his wife relocate with him to DE, which indicates he certainly didn't have divorce on his mind when he started his new job.
[My responses to the above snips...]
1. I also noticed this story hasn't been covered in detail beyond what the police originally released to the public, and wonder if there is some high-level cooperation here between family, university, police, and media to force the story to die.
2. I have also wondered about JG's family. If I am correct, according to her relations on White Pages, her maiden name might be Cox. If so, she still has family in Ft. Wayne, IN. Unfortunately, they have been silent on her passing. We haven't even heard of funeral arrangements for her yet, though I assume that is because MG, as her spouse, is next of kin to handle her final resting place. Honestly, this presumption, if accurate, concerns me because would he even give her a respectful burial considering how her life ended? But, to your point, it's hard to imagine JG didn't confide in anyone, other than social media, even via long-distance to her previous home in SC, or where she appears to have relatives in IN. Yet, as far as we know, NO ONE has come forward to make positive comments about her, let alone claim having known her. This is truly bizarre considering how successful and accomplished she was.
3. I interpreted that JG asked for recommendations for counseling in FEB, followed by a divorce attorney in MAR. If the opposite is true, then in attempting to put myself into her shoes, I might first think I need to prepare to protect myself legally with an advocate. Then, once the heartbreak set in, I might seek help to try to salvage my marriage. Obviously, she resigned both options in the end after accepting the demise of her marriage as brought on by the one person she trusted most.
4. The 5:00 to 6:00 time line is a new one. Unless I missed it earlier, I've only ever heard MC returned home around 7:00. Are you sure you want to rely on Daily Mail? I realize news reporting online these days is full of flaws, but Daily Mail seems to have greater inaccuracies more often. I am happy to be corrected on this.
5. Revisiting the timeline, from reports I've read, it was closer to 7:00 when shots were fired, however, I always questioned how far apart the shots were. I try to imagine the scenario where MC enters while JG lies in wait, then does JG first confront MC? Were words exchanged? Did JG fire once, killing MC, then sent any remaining messages to MG, before deciding there was no way out and having nothing for which to live anyway, therefore turning the gun on herself? Because it isn't clear if the two shots were in immediate succession.
I really would not expect any family to discuss a murder victim's "accountability" in a situation which resulted in their murder. I mean, really, what are they going to say? It would be in very bad taste for a family (or anyone, IMO) to make moral judgements against a murder victim. Adultery isn't even illegal anymore in some states (no link) but certainly isn't a death penalty offense. A lot of this thread reads like victim blaming, and it's rather disturbing, IMO.
Details about MC's life from those she worked with and the community she lived in. Please don't respond with victim blaming comments.
I cannot find ''anything' from anyone about the other victim or her husband other than what they wrote about themselves on social forums. Zero. Nada.
"I broke her heart and more than anything, [out] of all of this, my regret comes back to breaking her heart and making her feel like she had no other choice," he said. "I wish I wouldn't have hurt her because I loved her. I still love her. I wish I could take it back."
But he is also trying to move forward. He said he has driven past Chapman's home several times and that doing so has helped him come to terms with what happened so that he can let it go.
He said that he also began writing as a means of recovery. In a private letter that he wrote to Chapman, he said he mentions that it should have been him, not her, who died.
As part of his writing, Mark Gerardot has also written a manuscript for a book about the incident. He said that it has been cathartic to do so and that his hope for people reading it will be to learn from his mistakes.
"There [are] a lot of married people out there...going through a lot of the same things Jennair and I were going through. Not to say they're all going to end the way ours did. But...there's a lot of passion, there's a lot of arguing in the book that I think is so common in a marriage," he said.
"We didn't do everything right," he added. "That's for sure."
Man involved in love triangle murder-suicide case says 'I wish I could take it back'
Wow. Thanks for posting. I'm really interested in watching this.
I'm looking forward to watching this as well. I got caught up in this case. I never thought we would get any more details since there was no litigation.
Lot of information here:
I'm watching. While it's still awful, I don't believe for a second these two didn't know each other before he had a job interview with her and was then hired. I think they met prior to his move up there.....probably on Ashley Madison since she was also married. He completely avoided the question Amy asked about "when" they first said "I love you." He only described the feeling about it.
This case fascinated me from the get-go, and I was surprised at how little interest was shown in this case here on Websleuths compared to other cases. Maybe it's simply because there was no additional information out there, no trial, and no lawsuit. What else can we do but sit back and fade away when all of the information dries up.
Everyone was so "classy" (and quiet) in this case--Meredith's friends and family said little publicly; Jennair's friends and family didn't defend or condemn her; Mark's friends, family, and colleagues were silent. Would that all three of them had behaved with such class and propriety before all of this happened!
I guess I'm fascinated by seemingly "together," educated, professional, law-abiding people, especially women, who just "lose it" for lack of a better term, and act in a way that no one could have imagined. It's not interesting to me to learn about career criminals when it comes to true crime. It's the people that could be my friends, my family, or, God forbid, me!
So I watched the 20/20 interview and read all of the posts on Mark Gerardot's website. I am ASTOUNDED at the new things I've learned and at the massive amounts of information in the case, now (although it's all in Mark's hands, and he probably won't release most of it since it's very private and not particularly flattering to him or those he loved). Twelve notebooks of meticulous logs of every word he said based on the bugging devices she planted. Tracking devices on both their cars. The fact that she took up new "hobbies" and learned to do things she'd never done--shoot guns, break into offices, install tracking devices on cars, in offices, download everything on his phone every night, clone his phone--the list goes on and on.
I'm fascinated that she wanted and needed to know this painful information (I think tha I would have run from it) and that her psychiatrist diagnosed her with PTSD from the breakup alone. I'm fascinated by the all-consuming desire for revenge that she felt--that she lied to him as much as he lied to her, really. Jennair at times reminds me of main character in Gone Girl in terms of her intelligence, ruthlessness, outward normality, her desire for revenge, her meticulous planning, her hidden resentments, and more! She bought a gun almost immediately after she learned of the affair. She opened up secret accounts right away to purchase everything that she needed. She asked him to live with her and spend time with her despite the affair (so that she could keep her enemy close and be able to more easily surveil him?)
And lastly, now that I've watched MG in interviews, I have a better sense of the kind of person that he is, and I'm torn. On the one hand, he seems callous, yet on the other hand, he doesn't seem to be an evil, cruel person (like Chris Watts or Scott Peterson--which makes sense because he didn't kill his wife!). Which brings up an interesting point. isn't it surprising and interesting that HE didn't kill HER and SHE didn't kill HIM. Usually, we see the husband kill the wife to be with the lover. OR, we see the wife kill the husband for cheating on her. Rarely do we see the wife kill the girlfriend, then herself, and leave the husband behind to live...
I would love to read Mark's entire book IF he put in pretty much everything--the logs, the text messages between him and Meredith...but would he? I'm eager to find out because all three of these people fascinate me in different ways. Might I learn something? I think I would. I'd REALLY love it if Mark came on Websleuths and answered our questions, but he'd probably prefer to "save it for the book."
This may not be a popular opinion, but I thought Mark Geradot came off very well in the interview. He took full ownership of what he did wrong and had so much remorse and regret that he had hurt his wife of 26 years so badly that she felt she had no other options. He didn't really trash talk his wife at all, but did say something along the lines of she always had a very strong personality and always had to be right. Clearly, with all the stalking and hidden devices she planted, along with covert trips to the shooting range at least three times after purchasing the gun, she was a very sick person and he realized he should have seen the signs. He's writing the book so that it may help others who are going through the same thing and he is donating the proceeds to a charity related to suicide prevention. He basically said he still has not forgiven himself.
In regards to Meredith Chapman, he said he was shocked that he fell madly in her love with her very quickly. He said he felt alive again and amazing in her presence and that Meredith pointed out to him that he was a wonderful man. This is something Jennair never did. They shared a kiss early on and he said he couldn't do this to his wife so he tried to ignore his feelings. He tried to be honest with Jennair and told her about his feelings and from there Jennair began obsessing over the relationship. When he found recording devices sewn into several sports coats, I believe this was when he knew he needed to divorce Jennair. One last thing, he did not know Meredith before applying for the job. He had found her email online and sent her a direct message and not through the online application process. He was thrilled that she answered his email and perhaps some type of intimacy began from there.
I agree that his personality wasn't as awful as I thought it would be, but I wouldn't say he came off "very well" to viewers who have a minimal understanding of human nature. You're taking everything he said at face value, which seems very naive. This man is obviously capable of very big lies when it suits him because he lied to and betrayed his wife when he started this affair. He is a very skilled public relations and/or marketing executive who needs to rehabilitate his image for very practical reasons-- a career that might last for 20 or so years. If not, he won't have money to live on, and without money and status, he'll have an even harder time attracting female companionship, something that he values greatly. He has nothing to lose at this point, and there's not one living soul who can contradict anything he says about what, exactly, went down, what his intentions were, what he said, what he thought, and how he felt.
That seems like a fair assessment of my post, @TruthIsStranger . I probably shouldn't have used the words "very well," but I think I was surprised to find him a very likable person when I expected him to be some selfish, horrible ***.
This is from September, but didn't see it posted here.
It's a video podcast, so I won't link, but you can find it on YouTube:
AMERICAN REAL EVERYONE HAS A STORY
MARK GERARDOT | IRREPARABLE | WORLD PREMIERE EPISODE