PA - Kent, 2, & Brandon Schaible, 7 mos, die as parents rely on faith healing, 2009

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Filly, Dec 12, 2010.

  1. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    A Philadelphia couple have been convicted of manslaughter after their 2 year old baby boy died of bacterial pneumonia.

    Two year old Kent Schaible had bacterial pneumonia. He died and his dad Herbert Schaible aged 42 told a DHS worker two days later they never had a child die after praying over them. His mother Catherine Schaible also was convicted of manslaughter.

    DHS visited the home and said the rest of the children were kept well and there was no reason to keep a file on the family. Religious beliefs alone are not enough to have DHS intervene a social worker said.

    There was alot of debabte as to weather or not antibiotics would have helped little Kent.

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/loca...hiladelphia_father_said_devil_killed_son.html
     
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  3. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    First Century Baptist Church




    http://www.fcgchurch.com/

    The Schaible's faith does not believe God would allow anyone to get ill. Therefore it is the work of the devil.

    O.K. that's fine. Am I missing what this has to do with not getting a child antibiotics? I know it's faith healing and all, but doesn't the devil warrant antibiotics?
     
  4. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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  5. strawberry

    strawberry New Member

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    I heard this on KYW this afternoon. In the same half hour they reported a woman who was charged with the hit and run death of a high school senior last year. The woman was pulled over a mile away, and admitted she knew she hit someone and panicked. She gets at least a mandatory year in jail, which is fine. BUT why does she get that for freaking out after hitting someone who ran in front of her, she wasn't under the influence, but this couple knowingly failed to take their toddler to a doctor until he died and they get probation?
     
  6. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    Wise judge!
     
  7. LadyL

    LadyL Active Member

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    I agree. The woman was in an accident. These people put thought & planning into slowly murdering their child.
     
  8. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    This interests me greatly as the Followers of Christ in Oregon are having their children removed by the state when they fail to seek medical treatment for them. We have a couple of different threads on this group. One teen died from a bladder infection after not receiving antibiotics, just months after his niece died of an infection. In Oregon, an adult can choose to refuse medical care, but not a child. Oh, and yes, there's lots of room for debate.

    I was raised Baptist and nothing in the Baptist creed I know, prohibits medical intervention. I wonder if this is a small off-shoot of the church, as is the Followers of Christ. FWIW, I firmly believe that Jesus, himself, would seek out antibiotics for a sick child.

    Rest in peace, little Kent.
     
  9. southcitymom

    southcitymom New Member

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    UBM

    Goodness! Possibly you have access to information I have not seen. According to the links posted in this thread, these parents had never sought western medical help for any of their children and prayer had always been used to keep their children healthy - and that had worked for them for years.

    Also, at least one expert testified that what the child died of was resistant to antibiotics and he may well have died even if he had received western medical intervention.

    By all accounts, these were loving, attentive parents. Home visits showed that their children were well-kept and provided for. What possible purpose would throwing the parents in jail and dispersing their brood into the foster system serve?

    This judge's sentence was exceedingly wise. It kept a loving family together AND gave them directives regarding their kids' healthcare. I personally don't believe that anybody should be forced to seek and use western medical care, but if that's what it takes to satisfy the court and keep this family intact, I can live with it.

    I am always amazed that people who say they truly believe in the power of prayer want to imprison folks who actually live out that belief in their own lives.

    I'm heartbroken that these parents lost a child. I am grateful their pain wasn't confounded by losing their whole family.
     
  10. not_my_kids

    not_my_kids New Member

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    I agree with SCM on this one. If the kids had had any other signs of neglect, any sign that this was their goal, any indication that they would not care for their other children whatsoever, then I would say, sure, fry them, send their kids to foster care and break this family apart in ways that death couldn't even do.

    But...

    No grounds for a PS case. That says something right there. Ordinarily a worker will seize on any little thing, that means there was nothing. As much as some of us would like to see every child in this country immediately given every shot, every pill and have every test, that is not always a parent's choice. And when that choice is based on a legitimate religious belief, then...sometimes we have to accept the death of a child. The same as we sometimes have to accept death from drug interactions or tests conducted by Western medicine. They did what they believed would help their child the most. There was no malice, at least none that I have seen documented in any way.
    Our mainstream culture says they were wrong, their beliefs say they weren't.
    If it were clear cut that medication would have saved his life, then maybe I would feel different, but as it is, a child that was severely ill passed on in an atmosphere that was familiar and where he knew he was loved and cared for instead of in an alien hospital room where he might have died anyway.

    They lost a child. They will have to take their kids to doctors in the future, and I'm sure that they will be monitored. Why take the other kids when there was no malice and no amount of head hunting against the parents would bring that child back?
     
  11. tlcya

    tlcya <b><span style="color:#007C00;">WS Administrator</ Administrator

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    I do not think this was an act of malice. This was an act of faith. One that happens in this country. I do not pretend to understand it. My own personal faith tells me that modern medicine is god inspired and therefore, I make use of it. I think sometimes God may be shaking his/her head in exasperation at us mortals. Praying for relief from sickness and disease when (s)he has provided us with antibiotics, hospitals, doctors, to see to those needs.

    That said, I do not think these folks had malice. I am glad that the judge has ordered their other children receive accepted normal medical care. From the info we have, aside from the child they prayed over, there was nothing else to indicate any sort of neglect, abuse, torture, etc going on in this home. All other evidence pointed to loving parents.

    I hope the court monitors and makes sure the remaining children receive appropriate medical care.

    I feel so badly that these peoples faith led to this. God helps those who help themselves. I hope they know now, that even if getting sick is "of the devil" that getting medical treatment is "of God"
     
  12. OneLostGrl

    OneLostGrl I'm going against the grain- I'm going sane

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    How horrible for this family!
     
  13. Missizzy

    Missizzy New Member

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    I'd like to clear up one thing. The family is not Baptist. They are members of the First Century Gospel Church. I see no affiliation with the Baptist church at all. The churchmembers do, however, believe in baptism:

    http://fcgchurches.org/history.htm

    I was raised American Baptist (the most liberal....we got to drink and dance but not wash our hair on Sundays--I'm only half kidding). I felt very comfortable within the church. After a move to Texas, though, I split from the Southern Baptist Church as it just did not represent my beliefs.

    Because I am now what the good ol' Baptists would have called a "shut-in" (housebound), I've developed my own private relationship with God and he/she and I are as pleased as can be. I have tried Western medicine as well as a host of other treatments for my disorder and have settled on palliative care. However, I'm an adult and have made that choice mindfully.

    My hope is that this family can gradually move on from their terrible loss. It's a very sad story.
     
  14. Filly

    Filly KICKING AND SHINING

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    If my memory serves me correct this lady did more than freak out. She hid her car. She covered it with a tarp or something. If it's who I'm thinking of she comes from a lil money.

    Just sayin.

    No way do I agree with the "Children Of THe Corn" people. It's a moniker a friend of mine calls them and no it's not nice. However, I do not think they did this on purpose.

    I do not agree with their beliefs or methods but think they truly believe well what they believe.
     
  15. seattlechiquita

    seattlechiquita New Member

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  16. Sporky

    Sporky The fork is mightier than the spoon.

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    oh wow. smh poor baby
     
  17. seattlechiquita

    seattlechiquita New Member

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    I know. What part of provide medical care for your remaining and future children they didn't get. :banghead:
     
  18. mac66

    mac66 New Member

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    I was sympathetic to the parents when I was only aware of the first child. Now a second
    one has died, and they obviously did not accept medical care, as mandated by their
    probation. Now they need to be punished, and the children placed in a safe environment.
     
  19. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    THIS is why you remove those kids the first time. To save another child's life!
    If you are going to let people out on probation after they let one child die,
    you need to actually MONITOR (twice a week, in person) the remaining 8 children!

    I can give them some leeway with the first kid because pneumonia isn't always obvious.
    But ANYONE should know that with a BABY dehydration is quick.
    I don't care if they have home births, or don't vaccinate or take their kids for well baby check ups.
    Plenty of people do all of the above and still manage to take sick children to the doctor when they NEED it.

    If your child is having trouble breathing you take them to the people with machines to help them breathe.
    Especially after you already buried ONE child with prayer. This isn't rocket science! :banghead:

    This time, they need to be charged with something stronger... and no third chance to kill another one.
    There is obviously no way to really monitor these kids, without a home visit every couple of days.
    Since the state isn't capable of that, it's time to remove the kids. You don't get a third chance.


    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=24902671&n...after-only-praying&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-3

    They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating.
     
  20. Angelonline

    Angelonline Registered User

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    Wow, how sad. They will probably now say "it was God's will". They have 7 more children who are now in foster care, in hindsight, it looks like they should have been placed in foster care the first time.
     
  21. seattlechiquita

    seattlechiquita New Member

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    Agreed-- those children should have been removed. Parents can believe in the Sacred Goat or the Flying Spaghetti Monster for all I care, but children deserve appropriate health care.
     

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