Discussion in 'Missing Persons Discussion' started by TTF14, Jun 22, 2020.
And Pennsylvania Dutch.
I'm so worried for Linda. If this is not a case of voluntarily missing, it's not looking good. Still hoping here, and praying for her safety.
The state police said that she “may be at special risk of harm or injury.” What might that be alluding to? Maybe a learning disability or what could that be?
How Did the Pennsylvania Dutch Get Their Name?
Thank you for bringing this up. This term actually is confusing for a lot of people and tourists, so I included an article that helps to explain it. I’d be happy to explain this further if you'd like, but I think you'll find that "Pennsylvania Dutch" is not a true language; it is better known as High German.
Sorry, the above was in reply to Coppertop15.
That's a great question.
It could be an intellectual disability.
It could be a developmental disability.
It could be a medical condition.
It could be a mental health diagnosis.
I have a feeling we're missing one of the key pieces of the puzzle here.
The good news is that LE knows what we don't regarding her special risk factor(s).
I am not a tourist, my dad speaks Pennsylvania Dutch and it is SO different than High German. Not as different as Low German (Mom's side) from High German, but still... I can do some activities in Pennsylvania Dutch, get ready for bed in Low German, and I can do a fair job of singing hymns in High German.
But that's beside the point. Linda would be quite fluent in English. And I fear that more pain is coming to her family.
Wonder if she had any money with her, or access to any
Thank you for the very interesting background on your family's history. It sounds wonderful. I am so sorry if I offended you. I never thought you were a tourist, but many people and tourists confuse what "Pennsylvania Dutch" is, which is a variation of German. Likewise, High German is a variation of German.
When it was asked what languages Linda may speak, I was trying to be helpful by giving the simplest and most standard answer. "Pennsylvania Dutch" is yet a different dialect, which is sometimes confusing to those outside of the area. I consider the Amish to be bilingual, not trilingual, just because of different German dialects that may be used at different times, but your mileage may vary. Perhaps you believe they speak 3 or more different languages based on dialect, which is fine too. But I agree with you in that the main point is that Linda would be quite fluent in English. Thank you for the discussion.
Do you think maybe “special risk” could be naïveté? Like maybe “too trusting” because of her upbringing?
I'm so worried about Linda, but I'm glad her community is working so hard to find her and support her family.
That is what my interpretation was. I also think lack of resources on her part - phone, drivers license/knowledge of driving a car, knowing how to use modern electronics.
now I also know that many in the Amish community may know how to use electronics etc, but we don’t know if SHE does. So maybe there was information given to make them believe she doesn’t. These types of resources could be pivotal in survival in some situations & if she is lacking these resources or even the knowledge to use them, it could put her at higher risk.
That’s a good thought. If she’d planned to leave, you’d think she might have taken some cash along.
I really don’t think it sounds like she planned to go anywhere. Of all the times she probably could have left without anyone seeing, you wouldn’t think walking home from church in broad daylight with the possibility of someone else tagging along would be the time.
I wonder if LE is cross checking ANY other person, male of female, in the greater area who has not been seen recently.
I am having a hard time believing that a stranger was randomly driving down either Stumpfield or Beachdale on a Sunday morning and happened to see her and abduct her.
If it was foul play, I believe it is most likely someone who has seen her before, either in her community (not likely MOO) or in the general public, perhaps where she worked at the stand.
MOO MOO MOO
I did a quick google of that phrase to see how it’s used and if there’s any standard definition, and it’s often followed with “and may be confused.” They haven’t added that phrase in this case. I’m wondering if Linda is on medication and doesn’t appear to have taken it with her. That would be a good indication that she hasn’t left voluntarily.
Unfortunately, it seems like predators have a perception that the Amish make good victims. I could see someone who wanted to victimize someone for whatever reason intentionally choosing an Amish victim when there was opportunity.
We have fewer Amish farm stands here because of robberies by people who seemed to target the Amish, thinking they might not resist or have a phone handy or couldn’t just jump into a car and follow them. There was also a spate of burglaries of Amish homes while they attended church. And of course the Amish were targeted in the Nickel Mines school shooting. So it doesn’t seem out of the range of possibility to me that someone would specifically choose an Amish victim.
And in this area, there are people with an irrational hate for the Amish. There are a lot of negative stereotypes floating around about the group. In the current climate in this country, it doesn’t seem impossible that someone might feel justified in acting on their hate.
The logical part of me feels the same. But because this whole situation is so much different then the “norm”, to me it seems more & more like a possibility.
I’m a skeptic these days. I used to think that a missing person was always caused by some nefarious reasoning...but since I’ve made the switch in careers to a first responder type career, I am much more aware that the likely scenarios is voluntary, miscommunication etc. but with this community and their beliefs & the fascination some people have with them...I feel like abduction is looking more & more likely. At this point, I do not feel like she left willingly.
Has there been anything released as to whether tracking dogs were able to pick up her scent on Stumpfield Rd. or whether they did and then it stopped abruptly, indicating she may have been put into a vehicle or gotten in?
Has there been anything released to indicate she ever made the turn onto Beachdale Road on her walk home?
It seems that if a slow moving car was noticed or even that she got into a car, that vehicle description would be released so people could keep an eye out for it. Why was LE notified so soon, I thought that the Amish people would handle situations within their own community? Also, would the FBI become involved for anything other than foul play?
Deleted and reposted to correct quote problem.
Respectfully bolded by me.
The term "High German" can be a little confusing, and I'm sure my explanation is very simplified and not totally accurate. As the German language developed, there were three groups of dialects. "High German" was spoken in the geographically elevated (high) southern areas of Germany. "Low German" was spoken in the northern (low) flatlands. "Middle German" developed between the two areas. These were spoken languages, not written. The need for a single, common written language resulted in what became the "Standard German" in use today.
Since only educated people learned this written form, it gradually came to be called "High (as in higher social status) German."
So yes, Pennsylvania German/Dutch came from the (Old) High German dialect, since that is the region they came from. But it is not the same as what is called High, or Standard, German today.
Martin Luther used this Standard German to print the first German Bible. It was very important to Anabaptists that their children would be able to read this Bible, so they set up schools to teach them Standard German. Since anything written - Hymnals, Church Writings, Textbooks- was in Standard German, it was used for their entire church services and school sessions. The Amish continued this practice in America, again setting up schools where there were none, and everyone was bi-lingual. Eventually most Amish schools transitioned to using the English language, while still speaking their Penn. German dialect at home. But many groups still do use Standard/High German for church services, which many of the younger generations have never learned.
Officials said this isn't like a traditional missing teen case, where modern technology is often used to help in the search.
"(In other cases, those missing will) take efforts to let other people know that, maybe tell a friend, they might leave a text message, a phone call, a note," Lt. Hess said. "Something indicating they're not happy about what might be going on."
One of Stoltzfoos' neighbors said he often sees her walking along Beechdale Road and believes she isn't the type to run away.
Amish teen goes missing after church event in Lancaster County: Police