Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[loveplace]

Rereading the transcript again. I really, really hope this lead pans out.

At the time they announced it, I assumed it was to make sure they captured the entire possible time of Joseph's birth. Because he was so badly malnourished, perhaps his growth had been stunted, so they went further back and as far forward as the year before his death. That seemed plausible at the time, but now I do feel certain there was more to choosing that particular timeframe.

They were already aware of one child's existence on the mother's side, and that person may have been knowledgeable about the other sibling's birthdate - that may have played into the decision for that timeframe as well. There's a lot of information on a birth certificate, including address of the mother at the time of birth.

Pennsylvania birth certificates for years prior to the 50's also contained the mothers previous births and number of living children. I don't have an example from the 50s to know for sure.

 

[Friday Fan]

Pennsylvania birth certificates for years prior to the 50's also contained the mothers previous births and number of living children. I don't have an example from the 50s to know for sure.

It's on my PA birth certificate from 1956.

Under Children previously born to this mother. Do not include this pregnancy

• Living
• Dead (born alive, but now deceased)
• Stillborn (after 16 weeks of pregnancy)

I would scan the darn thing, but it's so faded that I don't think it will scan.

 

[loveplace]

It's on my PA birth certificate from 1956.

Under Children previously born to this mother. Do not include this pregnancy

• Living
• Dead (born alive, but now deceased)
• Stillborn (after 16 weeks of pregnancy)

I would scan the darn thing, but it's so faded that I don't think it will scan.

I think your last post and mine crossed in posting.

 

[Alleykins]

It's on my PA birth certificate from 1956.
Living, Dead, Stillborn (after 16 weeks of pregnancy)

Those are also standard maternity questions in the hospital. (I'm sure those questions are still on BCs in all states)
It goes on the mother's record during prenatal visits. Gravidity and parity - Wikipedia

My mother's birth certificate from the 40s/Maine, has a slot on it that asks how many children were born alive but are now dead. Imagine my shock when my mother's read "1". I was a teen and freaked out, thinking, my uncle died. I didn't know this was a document from her birth, but thought it was something more recent. So, after seeing it, I ran to my mother in tears and asked her who died. That's how I found out my grandmother had a baby out of wedlock before she married my grandfather.

 

[20943289]

Let's not dox the family who share a last name with Joseph.

Although a reporter at the press conference says something about the parental family denying a connection (see

starting around 39:15) -- The paternal family has not been confirmed by LE (aka the people with access to the DNA and birth certificate(s)) -- so, who exactly did the reporter speak to that denied connection??? The reporter declined to say who she was talking to and everyone is assuming it's people who have ancestors bearing the same last name as Joseph --- BUT, for all we know, she is asking people who aren't related to Joseph based on wild speculation as to his parentage. Unless LE confirms the people denying the connection are indeed related to Joseph, it's just wild speculation.

 

[Daphne1972]

Let's not dox the family who share a last name with Joseph.

Although a reporter at the press conference says something about the parental family denying a connection (see

starting around 39:15) -- The paternal family has not been confirmed by LE (aka the people with access to the DNA and birth certificate(s)) -- so, who exactly did the reporter speak to that denied connection??? The reporter declined to say who she was talking to and everyone is assuming it's people who have ancestors bearing the same last name as Joseph --- BUT, for all we know, she is asking people who aren't related to Joseph based on wild speculation as to his parentage. Unless LE confirms the people denying the connection are indeed related to Joseph, it's just wild speculation.

So Zarelli was the mother?

 

[20943289]

RE: why was birth father listed on the birth certificate
A contemporary legal discussion on Artificial Insemination has some details about how a PA birth certificate in the years immediately prior to 1961 required an entry of the name of the (presumed) father of the child on the birth form (see pg 9 of https://ideas.dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2191&context=dlra )

RE: what names were entered, did father sign the record, etc
By 1985, it was becoming the new norm that a woman would request to be allowed to name her child with any last name she chose. (see https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1299&context=lawineq )

The local convention on filling out birth certificates varied over time. It has been common in many areas for a mother to name a presumptive or putative father -- this could occur without the man's knowledge. Although some modern birth certificates require validating the name of the father on the birth certificate by signature and ID checking, this is not the norm everywhere and has not been the norm everywhere.

Without locating some guidance document that instructed nurses/doctors in 1952/53 PA how to decide what names to list for the child's last name there is no definitive information to be gleaned from LE indicating the child's birth name was Joseph Augustus Zarelli -- so let's not dox family/families who have that last name or similar in their ancestors.

 

[20943289]

So Zarelli was the mother?

no way of knowing based on what LE (who have the DNA and birth certificate which would be necessary to know for sure) has said

 

[Astrach99]

It's on my PA birth certificate from 1956.

Under Children previously born to this mother. Do not include this pregnancy

• Living
• Dead (born alive, but now deceased)
• Stillborn (after 16 weeks of pregnancy)

I would scan the darn thing, but it's so faded that I don't think it will scan.

It would be interesting to learn if Joseph's biological mother had any more children after the 1944-1956 window they looked for birth certificates, and if so how the Children previously born to this mother section was filled out.

 

[20943289]

While below the professional standard, death certificates are a goldmine. It would be very common for their grown offspring to be the reporter on the certificate, which confirms a piece of familial data; they list spouse, which confirms another piece of familial data; they list place of birth, confirming a 3rd piece of data etc. Plus all the other goodies like date of birth, attending physician etc that can lead to more clues. One of my most valuable resources in my own genealogical project has been death certificate information.

Unfortunately, for many death certificates the data shown is only partially correct.

Usually, you can trust the date of death and the name the person used close to the time of death.

The other information like residence close to time of death, occupation, spouse name (or lack thereof), marital status (single/widowed/divorced/married), place of birth, birth date, parents names, parent's places of birth, etc are all supplied by whomever reported the details to the person completing the death certificate and often have a thread of truth behind the information, but may not be exactly the same as other records -- aka it's not first hand information from the deceased (and even if it was, they may have misremembered some of the details over the years).

Death certificates are a good place to get hints to look for other supporting information like place of birth in order to find birth records.

 

[20943289]

I'm 1/2 Armenian. We only have ship manifests,(name changes, mispellings) census (mispelllings), and death certificates for anyone who was born before 1920!
The SSDI (Social Security Death Index) also provides an accurate death date, legal name. My grandparents "birthdates" on their naturalization papers and their SSDI match. They needed a birth date to become a US citizen and also to receive SS benefits.

No birth record anywhere! All records destroyed. Birthdates were a western construct, so when people came here, they literally had to make a birthday up because they had no idea!

This is why so many genealogical searches have a brick wall-- without an adequate number of DNA matches for third, fourth, fifth, sixth cousins, we just can't document where a person originated, so the genealogical trail stops cold.

 

[RaspberryMama]

It's on my PA birth certificate from 1956.

Under Children previously born to this mother. Do not include this pregnancy

• Living
• Dead (born alive, but now deceased)
• Stillborn (after 16 weeks of pregnancy)

I would scan the darn thing, but it's so faded that I don't think it will scan.

We believe you.

 

[RaspberryMama]

Let's not dox the family who share a last name with Joseph.

Although a reporter at the press conference says something about the parental family denying a connection (see

starting around 39:15) -- The paternal family has not been confirmed by LE (aka the people with access to the DNA and birth certificate(s)) -- so, who exactly did the reporter speak to that denied connection??? The reporter declined to say who she was talking to and everyone is assuming it's people who have ancestors bearing the same last name as Joseph --- BUT, for all we know, she is asking people who aren't related to Joseph based on wild speculation as to his parentage. Unless LE confirms the people denying the connection are indeed related to Joseph, it's just wild speculation.

This is a very good point. In fact, LE seemed surprised at that question, imo, which lends credence to your theory.

 

[Daphne1972]

We aren't trying to find the identity of either parent here. Please see the warnings from admins throughout the thread. But what does F.A.G. stand for? I can't place it for some reason.

Find a grave

 

[RaspberryMama]

Find a grave

Of course. Duh!

 

[Friday Fan]

I found a scan of the PA Birth Certificate from 1956
I removed the identify info, but don't know whether I should post it...


Legitimacy is in a section entitled, "For Medical Use Only" (So, I guess it's not a legal issue?? Or one that is was verified)
"Legitimacy" is determined by the "Attendant at Birth" (whatever)

 

[txsleuth70]

It would "seem" that way but I'm not sure it is/was per the first line. (M was an adult)

A Mandated Reporter is a person who works with minor children or adults with Developmental Disabilities ages 18-21 in a professional capacity. A Mandated Reporter’s responsibility to report suspected child abuse and/or neglect supersedes professional client/patient confidentiality. There are a multitude of questions about when and how to make a referral to Children Services as a Mandated Reporter. The best way to make a referral is by phone. Please contact our agency at (513) 695-1546 and follow the prompts to make a referral. Mandated Reporters identities are kept confidential from anyone outside of law enforcement or a court unless instructed to reveal a reporter by a judge as part of testimony in a legal proceeding in court.

Children Services

www.co.warren.oh.us

and supporting info

https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-cod

http://

I'm very curious about the years they chose for the birth certificate search that resulted in JAZ and 2 other half (we believe) siblings. Why those years? Was mom not of child-bearing years on the early side of that? Was she institutionalized/imprisoned/passed away on the later side? Was she known to be involved with JAZ's father during those years? PA birth certificates used to have a box to write what number of births this was for the mother and how many of them lived. (I just know this from seeing the book copy of my GF's birth certificate. Unfortunately, he was birth 5 and only 3 had lived. Heartbreaking). Anyway, I don't know if that was still a thing by that time, but would be interesting to know how many JAZ's mom had birthed before/after him and why they chose to start the search window almost 10 years before JAZ's birth, but end it just a

Good point! I have wondered a lot about the name as well.

Was it common for an unwed mother that is planning on placing a child for adoption at birth even be allowed to name a newborn? I know one case in my family where a child was born in an unwed mothers home and taken at birth (not named by birth mom). The name being a family name makes me think the child was with bio mom for awhile.

MOO

I know of several instances where first and middle names were kept after adopted, especially for a child over age 2.

 

[steff13]

I think this is what it appears to be, a case of horrific child abuse and neglect that culminated in homicide.

But to entertain your theory of experimentation on children by some kind of shadowy government or medical cabal, I find it hard to believe that something like that could remain hidden so well from society and at the same time have no better solution for disposing of a test subject who died than in a wooded area known for flytipping, inside a box that was possibly already on site.

MOO

I don't doubt that weird experimentation went on, but your point about disposal is a good one. If these were scientists or physicians that were experimenting on unwanted children surely they had a better method to dispose of the inevitable bodies than to just put them in a box in a field.

 

[msmag]

That looks like a body

The Boy in the Box: Who is America's Unknown Child?

The Boy in the Box: Who is America's Unknown Child?

www.dreadcentral.com

You can see the body.he is laying on his back with his head facing the opening of the box. :-(

 

[txsleuth70]

RE: why was birth father listed on the birth certificate
A contemporary legal discussion on Artificial Insemination has some details about how a PA birth certificate in the years immediately prior to 1961 required an entry of the name of the (presumed) father of the child on the birth form (see pg 9 of https://ideas.dickinsonlaw.psu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2191&context=dlra )

RE: what names were entered, did father sign the record, etc
By 1985, it was becoming the new norm that a woman would request to be allowed to name her child with any last name she chose. (see https://scholarship.law.umn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1299&context=lawineq )

The local convention on filling out birth certificates varied over time. It has been common in many areas for a mother to name a presumptive or putative father -- this could occur without the man's knowledge. Although some modern birth certificates require validating the name of the father on the birth certificate by signature and ID checking, this is not the norm everywhere and has not been the norm everywhere.

Without locating some guidance document that instructed nurses/doctors in 1952/53 PA how to decide what names to list for the child's last name there is no definitive information to be gleaned from LE indicating the child's birth name was Joseph Augustus Zarelli -- so let's not dox family/families who have that last name or similar in their ancestors.

It doesn't matter. DNA confirmed JAZ's maternal AND paternal lineage!

LE did target testing of living people to identify the paternal family. There is no disputing that. I don't know why some continue to try.