PA PA - Philadelphia, 'Boy in the Box', WhtMale 4-6, 4UMPA, Feb'57 #2

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by christine2448, Mar 31, 2005.

  1. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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    because back then appearance was more important and people would not risk being "found out" in the not too distant past adopting out your child was an act of complete shame and you kept everything as quiet as possible . MOO
     


  2. Gypsysoul25

    Gypsysoul25 Active Member

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    So the Horsham farm suspects were never looked into?one young boy who was in the photo looked malnourished.so it was a bit more common back then for young boys to have visible ribcages?the three suspects in the photo do have some suspicious facial expressions.and the photo found at the farm was never publicly released correct me if I'm wrong

    I wonder how the death mask has gotten lost

    I think he might be intersex
     
  3. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    Please keep him in your prayers to find out who he is.I pray they are doing DNA relative matches on him.This is so very sad.I will never forget this little one.Has there been an update on him or what's going on on his case?Can anyone find out?This makes me so sad for him.
     
  4. themissingandthelost

    themissingandthelost Well-Known Member

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    Yes please! I'd love to read that!
     
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  5. themissingandthelost

    themissingandthelost Well-Known Member

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    If he was intersex this would have been mentioned before now, but I can see where you are coming from. Have you got a link to the Horsham farm info?
     
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  6. themissingandthelost

    themissingandthelost Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't have been uncommon for children to have been sent to live with someone if their parents were travellers with circuses and so on. Unfortunately, it's all speculation and unless someone comes forward and can verify everything, we may never know if he was adopted out, sold, or left in the care of someone who neglected and abused him.

    I'm also wondering if there was ever any DNA testing done to confirm where the child came from, we're all assuming he was living with M's parents or was from around that area, but recently in the case of Baby Doe of Opelika, Alabama they were able to test her bones to find out where she had come from. I don't know the exact process or how they did it, just that they were able to confirm she was from Alabama and/or the surrounding area of Georgia.
     
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  7. taramarie

    taramarie Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, Barbara commented in a FB group that she is no longer involved with this case and has no current information. When she was working it, there was insufficient DNA to build a profile
     
  8. Eman317

    Eman317 Well-Known Member

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    That sucks. Without a DNA profile I don't see any other way that this kids gonna get identified.
     
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  9. janewall

    janewall Well-Known Member

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    Well, drat. But thanks for letting us know.
     
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  10. Suglo

    Suglo Well-Known Member

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    They are probably now waiting for technology to catch up to be able to sequence his DNA when one has an insufficient sample. We’ve come a long way just in the past few years. I have no doubt that they will be able to do it in the future. Hopefully sooner than later.
     
  11. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone heard of any updates on him.Very sad.
     
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  12. Ms Suzanne

    Ms Suzanne Well-Known Member

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    I pray he is Identified soon.Please do not give up on him.I hope and pray there is an update on him soon.
     
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  13. ChatteringBirds

    ChatteringBirds Well-Known Member

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    How is there insufficient DNA when they had all of his remains? It's not as if they only have a bone fragment... can anyone please explain? What is missing or happened to the remains over time that causes this issue? Is there really no lab anywhere that can do it with what they've got, or is the technology just cost prohibitive?
     
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  14. Eman317

    Eman317 Well-Known Member

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    This is certainly a possibility, but the only way I can see this kid not having a name is if he was born outside a hospital and was never exposed to the general public. The fact that his hair was cut after his murder to conceal his identity, and the numerous surgical scars on his body indicate that there must be hospital records of him out there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
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  15. Dylansmom08

    Dylansmom08 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Orthram could do anything with his remains to get DNA since they seem to be able to use much smaller portions of DNA than any other lab? I really hope that more cases are brought to them they do such amazing work and help so many families.
     
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  16. Melt71

    Melt71 Well-Known Member

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    They are on this forum - just tag them so they will see your post.
     
  17. MarziPanda

    MarziPanda Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, some bones are so old and contaminated (or have had processes done to them that strip DNA away - some DDP cases that aren't very old (mid 2000s) have this issue as the bones have been boiled) that there is no DNA left to build a complete profile. The kind of DNA needed to build the kind of profile needed for genealogical matching is different to the kind needed for one-to-one comparison. You need much more. Even for some more recent cases it can take many tries to get a good enough sample. With bones from 1957, well, there's a high chance there isn't much left to work with. When you take the sample, the vast majority of the DNA there will be from bacteria, not the actual person. With cases like this, it seems to be that the technology just isn't advanced enough yet - it's not possible.

    Having said that, I believe Othram Labs themselves have posted here before saying they need far less DNA to make a workable sample, or something along those lines.

    All MOO and might be wrong, just what I've gathered from various genealogical forensics articles and what the labs have said.
     
  18. ChatteringBirds

    ChatteringBirds Well-Known Member

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    Quote RSBM.

    I don't understand this part; please explain. TIA
     
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  19. MarziPanda

    MarziPanda Well-Known Member

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    Some cases the DNA Doe Project have taken on have been put on indefinite hold because they are unable to get sufficient samples. Some of these are not old cases. Of the 8 UID cases from Snohomish County, two were with DDP before being put on hold. I believe DDP mentioned for both that the reason they couldn't get samples was because the bones had been boiled or had some other technique done to them to preserve them/clean them which had actually made DNA extraction very difficult. I believe the ones in question are #UP2886 and #UP6599? Found in 2007 and 2009 respectively, so they're not old cases (though one is a partial cranium only and the other is also skeletal and had been there up to 5 years).

    A lot depends on how the remains are treated and stored, as well as how old they are.

    Again all MOO from what I've researched, and could be wrong.

    This article talks a bit more in detail about Othram Labs and how they're able to use far less DNA than most to make a workable sample for forensic genealogy:

    Another ID through DNA: Who killed Rodney Johnson? | HeraldNet.com

    It specifically mentions that most of these tests need 750 nanograms of DNA which can be difficult to get from a skeleton, but Othram are able to work with just one fifth of a billion of a gram.
     
  20. othram

    othram Verified Owner of Othram Inc/DNA Expert

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    Not sure what "indefinite hold means" but you bring up excellent points re: bones. Bones are tricker, particularly older ones. Many times the process fails due to low quantities of human DNA or high levels of non-human contaminating DNA (like bacteria). Sometimes its just cost prohibitive and the lab will fail the test because its not financially feasible.

    We have a really great process for working with degraded, damaged, and contaminated bone. It does not always work, but the Rodney Johnson case is an excellent example where our process was able to cost-effective solve a challenge with evidence that failed for other lab methods.
     

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