PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

Discussion in '2000's Missing' started by J. J. in Phila, Apr 18, 2015.

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  1. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Yes, and that would fit with the map.
     


  2. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    I wouldn't say "hasty", because of the map. The MO is still different. Here is a list I made of the differences:

    A. Mr. Gricar left from home; Mr. Luna left from the office.
    B. Mr. Gricar left early to mid morning; Mr. Luna left after 11:30 PM.
    C. Mr. Gricar drove about 56 miles, on a relatively direct path; Mr. Luna drove a minimum of 190 miles on a very indirect path.
    D. Mr. Gricar took his cell phone; Mr. Luna left his behind in the office.
    E. Mr. Gricar took the day off; Mr. Luna was suppose to fax a plea agreement that night, and was expected in court the next day.
    F. Mr. Gricar phoned his girlfriend from the road; Mr. Luna had no contact with his wife or family members after he left.
    G. The Mini Cooper, the car Mr. Gricar was driving, was found in a fairly densely populated area; Mr. Luna’s car was found in a rural area.
    H. The Mini showed no evidence of a crime; Mr. Luna’s car had a large amount of blood.
    I. The Mini was parked, engine off; Mr. Luna’s care was in a ditch, with the engine running.
    J. Mr. Luna’s body was found; there was no effort to hide it. Mr. Gricar’s body was never found.
    It should be obvious that the modus operandi (I do like Latin) of both deaths was quite different.
     
  3. wijg

    wijg New Member

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    Not to get off the current topic, but I finally purchased the episode of "Disappeared" on Amazon... and I'm watching it now... and I'll just leave this here... I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it MissJ :)

    From the episode of "Disappeared"... just after the 19 minute mark.

    Direct quotes from Tony Gricar, regarding his father Roy.

    Anyway... now that that's settled.. and JJ has been further discredited... who else wants to keep discussing Luna? Because I for one am intrigued by the possibility of some sort of connection.
     
  4. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    There is a Luna thread.

    Well, if it was Dayton, then there would not be a match with Lewisburg.
     
  5. hotdog4

    hotdog4 New Member

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    This case is totally intriguing, I think that there is something to the Luna angle.
     
  6. MissJ

    MissJ New Member

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    Thanks! I knew we were right. I would like to hear more about Luna.
     
  7. MissJ

    MissJ New Member

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    Why not discuss the similarities? I for one want to know.
    Interesting how a case can be botched by LE who immediately assume that someone left willingly when they really didn't.
     
  8. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    The similarities are that both did the same type of work. They had no cases in common and covered different non-overlapping jurisdictions. They were both baseball fans (of different teams). They were both male and Christian, at least nominally, though of different denominations. Luna may have been a more regular churchgoer; RFG was described is someone who attended mass on Christmas.

    Even looking at both of their financial situations, education, and demographics, there are no similarities.

    I would again point out that the is a thread on Luna. I would also point out that the person originally trying to make the connection, BK, apparently no longer does.
     
  9. SuperSmith

    SuperSmith Former Member

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    Well I'm glad you came to terms with Gricar being deceased and not a walkaway.
     
  10. SuperSmith

    SuperSmith Former Member

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    The smoke is clearing and the mirrors are cracking. ;)
     
  11. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    I didn't. I assumed for the list that both would be foul play. I suspect neither was.
     
  12. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Yes, there was a claim that the sites were so similar that they had to be related.

    It turns out that they were very different. For example, there are six bridges over the Susquehanna north of Lewisburg, at least three are closer to Bellefonte and, like Lewisburg, have the same degree of similarity to the area where Roy committed suicide. Further, we all have had similarly bad luck in finding the exact location of where Roy's car was. That makes it very unlikely that anyone else could, at least that was never there.

    Lewisburg, was therefor, not chosen "to make it look like suicide." We go back to the clandestine meeting, if this was foul play.
     
  13. MissJ

    MissJ New Member

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    In your opinion.
     
  14. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Apparently in the experience of any poster that has looked.

    It is also interesting to note the Gricar brothers were thinking suicide prior to arriving at Lewisburg.
     
  15. wijg

    wijg New Member

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    Really? You claim to have seen just about every show made about the Gricar disappearance, right? If that's the case, then either your attention to detail isn't very good, or you willingly ignore certain details that don't fit your theory. I was a couple vodka tonics deep last night and was still able to catch this in passing while watching a show about Gricar:

    roylocation.png

    You are quickly losing credibility.
     
  16. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Yet that has not shown up for ten years. BTW, do you have a link. This would involve a presumed killer taking newspaper clippings from an out of town newspaper 9 years before.
     
  17. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Two things quite interesting about the article.

    First, I Googled "Veteran's Park" in Dayton. It took me more than a mile north of the Stewart Street. So that article, even if it was known, would not have helped someone unfamiliar with the site of Roy's Suicide.

    Second, and perhaps most important, the Stewart Street Bridge was demolished in 2008; it had been there since 1911. Somebody videotaped the demolition and it is here: [video=youtube;uRCGDVgmhH4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRCGDVgmhH4[/video]

    Here is the Lewisburg Bridge: https://picasaweb.google.com/LookingforRay/Lewisburg73009#5391571638914299186

    Notice one major difference that stand out between the Stewart Street and Lewisburg bridges.

    The Stewart Street bridge is constructed with arches; there is a noticeable curve under the supports. The Lewisburg bridge has straight supports, post and lentil, I think they are called.

    Yes, the credibility of the claim that these two sites are similar (beyond both being bridges across rivers) and that someone not familiar with the site could discover what it looked like has lost all credibility.
     
  18. MissJ

    MissJ New Member

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    Sites being similar.........have you been to the park in Dayton? Cause someone who has would know if they were. The bridges do not have to be exactly alike for the site to be similar.
     
  19. J. J. in Phila

    J. J. in Phila Verified Insider

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    Well, it would involve someone who was actually at the site. Now, that would limit this to very few people, generally with the last name "Gricar."

    Suppose that someone knew that Roy had committed suicide in 1996. Now a few people that were close to RFG did know that, and did know that he drowned. EG, BG, and probably his staff at the time and some people around the Courthouse. That could have been known by a murderer, that was from Centre County, or could have been found out in conversation.

    Now, supposedly the sites are very similar, but that is not apparent from looking at photos of the sites. So the murderer looks at the photos, online presumably, and sees two bridges that, even at a glance, are noticeably different. He/she suddenly decides they are similar? That does not fit.

    Now, one of the Gricars that could see the supposed similarity had the first name Ray. So, that could point to suicide. I'm not quite willing to suggest that any other was responsible for RFG's death.

    There is also the possibility, much more likely, that Lewisburg would have been chosen for another reason than, to "make it look like suicide," especially if it was murder.
     
  20. DEPUTYDAWG

    DEPUTYDAWG Active Member

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    I apologize for the true O/T on this thread, but I think several of you here may have followed this other case:

    What was the name of the lady who was found in the bathtub a few years ago, in PA, who was the girlfriend(? Maybe?) of some prominent lawyer or ? I wanted to look up her thread here at WS and can't remember her name or whether it happened in Pittsburgh or ? But I think/hope some of you will remember? Thanks! Just wondered what ever was found out, if anything.
     
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